posted
A really hair-raising article published online in World Magazine warms about the many ways that Democratic presidential candidate, Sen. Barack Obama, is being promoted as a virtually messianic figure.
In his article, “Obama and the danger of a divinized ruler,” Gene Edward Veith notes statements by Obama himself that have a messianic tone, such as when he said his nomination has a cosmic significance that future generations would look back on. “This was the moment,” Obama is quoted as saying, “when the rise of the oceans began to slow and our planet began to heal.” Campaign slogans and posters evoke Bibical concepts in reference to Obama: “Believe.” And “Faith. Hope. Change. Obama for President.”
Beyond mere excessive rhetoric, there are many Americans who seem to be extolling him as savior. Catholic blogger Christopher Blosser started a website, “Is Barack Obama the Messiah?” ( www.obamamessiah.blogspot.com ) which tracks this kind of thing, such as the way media photographs of Obama portray the candidate bathed in heavenly light or adorned with halos. Here are a couple of excerpts directly from Veith’s article: “Says U.S. Rep. Jesse Jackson Jr., D-Ill., the son of the civil-rights activist, of Obama's pending nomination: ‘The event itself is so extraordinary that another chapter could be added to the Bible to chronicle its significance.’ Movie director Spike Lee goes further. After the presidential election, ‘You'll have to measure time by “Before Obama” and “After Obama."’ Lee added, ‘Everything's going to be affected by this seismic change in the universe.’"
"’A black man with a white mother became a savior to us,’ proclaimed Louis Farrakhan of the Nation of Islam.”
Mark Mortford of the San Francisco Chronicle enters into spiritualistic realms when he says, as quoted in Veith’s article: "Barack Obama isn't really one of us.” He is in fact "a Lightworker, that rare kind of attuned being who has the ability to lead us not merely to new foreign policies or health care plans or whatnot, but who can actually help usher in a new way of being on the planet, of relating and connecting and engaging with this bizarre earthly experiment. These kinds of people actually help us evolve."
Veith notes that at Obama rallies, something like a religious fervor often seems to cause some people to pass out, as if they are “being slain in the spirit” as Pentecostals would call it.
Some people on the political left are critical of the fact that Gov. Sarah Palin is religious. But is it healthy to embrace spiritualistic notions about Obama's candidacy?
Posts: 3742 | Registered: Dec 2001
| IP: Logged |
posted
I think that, for many of us, the fervor is less a reflection of Senator Obama in particular than an expression of how desperately we want to save our country from the direction in which it is headed.
Posts: 11187 | Registered: Sep 2005
| IP: Logged |
I'm considering writing a story in which one of the characters is able to tell the future by what internet advertisements pop up on a client's computer.
Posts: 14554 | Registered: Dec 1999
| IP: Logged |
posted
So does this mean you will vote for him? I mean, since the "evidence" you have provided seems to support your premise...
Oh wait, despite all this "evidence" (which you will note are really just different people's opinions or unsupported assertions) you will still find a reason to not vote for him. Probably thanks to one of those "Obama is a secret Muslim" emails (wait, I'm sure you'll trot out his misspeak from the last couple of days, claiming he isn't "secret" about anymore) or the "Is Obama the Anti-Christ?" McCain web ad that used a lot of talking points and imagery familiar to "Left Behind" fans.
No one cares about Palin's religion, no matter how much the right-wing echo chamber screams it. They care about how she might apply some of her beliefs to the nation-at-large.
posted
Scott, how about a malevolent intelligence develops that directs certain ads in order to control users behavior, and therefore help support the intelligence's existence.
posted
Bokonon, Veith's article also points out how totalitarian states are often characterized by the divinization of a political leader, as in North Korea. His opinion is that this is a very dangerous direction for Obama's campaign to take, and it absolutely is not all right to speak of a political candidate in such blatantly religious and spiritualistic terms. Add another chapter to the Bible devoted to Obama's candidacy? Change the calendar to "Before Obama" and "After Obama"?
Posts: 3742 | Registered: Dec 2001
| IP: Logged |
posted
Yes Ron, Obama is a Muslim who disrespects his own pastor for no reason while slapping down all women with his own personal messianic cult and Brittney styled glamor celebrity that covers the fact that he is the Anti-Christ.
Yes sir. The only thing we can do is not vote for him.
Excuse me as I go to he political threads where issues and actual facts are discussed, not this slime.
Posts: 1941 | Registered: Feb 2003
| IP: Logged |
posted
Darth, are you claiming that Veith is making these things up?
By the way, I would not say Obama distanced himself from his own pastor "for no reason." He had plently of reason to throw Rev. Wright under the bus. The only question to most people is why he didn't do so sooner.
Posts: 3742 | Registered: Dec 2001
| IP: Logged |
posted
Scott, I would totally read that story. The plot sort of reminds me of Understand by Ted Chiang. (Sidenote: when I was little I used to pretend that I had the ability to gain deep insight into the world from mundane things, like the texture of brick walls. I've always been fascinated by that sort of thing since.)
Posts: 2409 | Registered: Sep 2003
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by kmbboots: I think that, for many of us, the fervor is less a reflection of Senator Obama in particular than an expression of how desperately we want to save our country from the direction in which it is headed.
For some reason, this seems very hollow for me.
I was attracted to Obama campaign because of the man himself-- his character, his way of speaking, etc.
The excitement over the Democratic nomination has little to do (IMO) with the philosophical disagreement between the GOP and the Dems. People are excited about Obama in a way that they simply weren't able to muster for Hilary, Kerry, and Gore.
It's not just that the Dems, as a platform, offer a different direction from the past eight years of policy-- good gravy, no. I can't agree with that at all.
posted
Jhai--I've read of obssessive-compulsive types who were like that. I hope you are not hypnotized by the grain in wood.
Posts: 3742 | Registered: Dec 2001
| IP: Logged |
posted
For my part, I think the fact that Ron posted this on Ornery twice means that we should be able to ignore it here.Posts: 37449 | Registered: May 1999
| IP: Logged |
It's been corrected. Unfortunately, when I deleted one of them, it took down with it a reply by Kevin. The alternative was to delete the other thread, which would have taken down Tom's reply--which of course I would not dare to do.
[ September 09, 2008, 03:16 PM: Message edited by: Ron Lambert ]
Posts: 3742 | Registered: Dec 2001
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Scott R: The ad for me is for VampireFreaks.com.
It's GothScene.com for me--a one stop shop for all my Goth dating needs. Unfortuantely, I only really go for the Thervingi, and I'm pretty sure that that site doesn't differentiate.
Posts: 16059 | Registered: Aug 2000
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Ron Lambert: Bokonon, Veith's article also points out how totalitarian states are often characterized by the divinization of a political leader, as in North Korea. His opinion is that this is a very dangerous direction for Obama's campaign to take, and it absolutely is not all right to speak of a political candidate in such blatantly religious and spiritualistic terms. Add another chapter to the Bible devoted to Obama's candidacy? Change the calendar to "Before Obama" and "After Obama"?
Sort of like how Bush has said he believes he was chosen by God to lead us in these trying times? And you ignore that all the people you quote aren't part of the Obama campaign, they are just giving their opinions.
Or should I be able to find a racist somewhere that has said he supports McCain because he thinks such an administration would push back civil rights to the Jim Crow (sp) law days, can I then say it's "a very dangerous direction for McCain's campaign to take"?
Scott: But this is a passive aggressive intelligence!
posted
Just to clarify, Ron, does this mean that you are firmly opposed to the work of the partisan Alliance Defense Fund, which is recruiting clergymen to speak against Obama from the pulpit?
quote:Originally posted by Ron Lambert: Jhai--I've read of obssessive-compulsive types who were like that. I hope you are not hypnotized by the grain in wood.
I only allow my OCD tendencies to come out when I'm playing Oblivion. No godspoken hand washing for me!
Posts: 2409 | Registered: Sep 2003
| IP: Logged |
posted
Even better, what if you wrote a story about how web ads were somehow a fortune cookie, somehow predicting an event in the user's life, that is only obvious after the fact!
posted
Tom, I favor the law or IRS rule which prohibits churches from pushing political candidates from the pulpit or otherwise speaking directly about politics, on pain of losing their tax exempt status, and having to pay tax on what they collect in their offering plates. I wish it were enforced consistently in certain urban black churches, which have been notorious for violating this.
There is currently an effort being made to challenge the law/IRS rule on behalf of said churches. Democrats are probably behind it, because they think they "own" the black urban churches.
[ September 09, 2008, 03:15 PM: Message edited by: Ron Lambert ]
Posts: 3742 | Registered: Dec 2001
| IP: Logged |
posted
Scott R, sorry to break it to you, but Ayn Rand is dead. She was allegedly killed by one of her followers who thought she had her gold with her.
Posts: 3742 | Registered: Dec 2001
| IP: Logged |
Blayne Bradley
unregistered
posted
Whether individuals attribute some sort of Messianic fame to Obama is their INDIVIDUAL business and opinions that doesn't actually IMPLY anything.
Have you ever seen "Hitler Rise of Evil"? Stalin got to power in what was already a dictatorship, he simply outmaneuvered his old comrades t get there, Kim Il Sung was appointed by Stalin to rule as the USSR's puppet, Kim Jung-il was simply his son, they're Cult of Personalities developed after the fact that prior, there's no correlation between them.
The closest example is Hitler's Rise but any objective analysis of the situation would show that any assertion of Obama being the next Hitler just like similar assertions about GWB are complete crap.
People are woozy about Sarah Palin because she wants to apply her faith based beliefs to the American public at large, we don't give to whits that she's religious.
No one is EMBRACING some spiritual connuctations about Obama, its just something a minority of people attribute to him the majority see him as being the better candidate who offers something of substance.
IP: Logged |
"The Dark History of The Church: 7 Gread Myths of Organized Religion. The Critical Fault Line that separates genuine spirtituality from empty religious dogma.
Posts: 12591 | Registered: Jan 2000
| IP: Logged |
posted
Scott, for a lot of people, I'm sure it is about Sen. Obama in particular. For some of us, though, it is about policy and issues. I like Sen. Obama. I think he is an exciting candidate and a good man and will, God willing, make a great president. The sense of urgency I feel about his candidacy, though, is precisely about taking the country out of the hands of the party who has...well you don't need me to recite that litany.
Posts: 11187 | Registered: Sep 2005
| IP: Logged |
posted
On my add, MoveOn.org is offering to give away 1 million Obama buttens this week. I wonder if I could just trade in one of my old Richardson ones?
Posts: 1167 | Registered: Oct 2005
| IP: Logged |
posted
I've got "Obama Barack Ringtones" here. But I'm afraid if I had one of him speaking, everyone and their brother would be trying to either kill me(as my hometown is EXTREMELY conservative) or molest me to get my phone and thus, to Barack Obama.
Posts: 1591 | Registered: Jul 2005
| IP: Logged |
This you have a problem with, but Bush and Palin talking about how the war against terror is God's will is okay?
Apparently being a unifying figure in a time of great national friction is a big no-no, but advocating a 21st century Christian crusade is top notch stuff!
Seriously though, is the charge here that Obama is trying to position himself as this figure, or that people are doing it by themselves? He's using a lot of large language (lofty rhetoric), but compared to the overtly religions overtones that run through Republican presidential rhetoric, he barely registers on the scale.
Posts: 21898 | Registered: Nov 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
Maybe one CAN influence the oracle like properties of the google ads, we must test this.
video games video games video games video games video games video games video games video games video games video games video games video games video games video games video games video games video games video games video games video games video games video games video games video games video games video games video games video games video games video games video games video games video games video games video games video games video games video games video games video games video games video games video games video games video games video games video games video games video games video games video games video games video games video games video games video games video games video games video games video games video games video games video games video games
quote:Bokonon, Veith's article also points out how totalitarian states are often characterized by the divinization of a political leader, as in North Korea.
Obama = Kim Jong Il
Oh snap, I sure ain't voting for him now.Posts: 15421 | Registered: Aug 2005
| IP: Logged |
Final Fantasy XII Video games Bioware Commmand and Conquer
Final Fantasy XII Video games Bioware Commmand and Conquer
Final Fantasy XII Video games Bioware Commmand and Conquer Final Fantasy XII Video games Bioware Commmand and Conquer
Posts: 14554 | Registered: Dec 1999
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Ron Lambert: Tom, I favor the law or IRS rule which prohibits churches from pushing political candidates from the pulpit or otherwise speaking directly about politics, on pain of losing their tax exempt status,
Wait so you're against the churches wanting to know a canidates political opinion?
Posts: 1574 | Registered: May 2008
| IP: Logged |
posted
No clue. Now it's "Obama Barack Ringtones: download to your mobile phone instantly!" from ttunes.net.
Posts: 21182 | Registered: Sep 2004
| IP: Logged |
My advertisement is of a superhero-Obama, ripping open a shirt to reveal an 'O'. "Buy the t-shirt!" the advertisement says. I think I win the 'most appropriate for the topic' award.
Posts: 8473 | Registered: Apr 2003
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Jhai: Scott, I would totally read that story. The plot sort of reminds me of Understand by Ted Chiang. (Sidenote: when I was little I used to pretend that I had the ability to gain deep insight into the world from mundane things, like the texture of brick walls. I've always been fascinated by that sort of thing since.)
I always thought I was the only one who did that! I also rearrange numbers and letters to make meanings and symbols out of them, almost subconsciously at this point.
My ad is for MoveOn.org as well.
Posts: 1735 | Registered: Oct 2004
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Teshi: <controversial comment>
How do you think religions get started?
</controversial comment>
My advertisement is of a superhero-Obama, ripping open a shirt to reveal an 'O'. "Buy the t-shirt!" the advertisement says. I think I win the 'most appropriate for the topic' award.
Hm. I'm not sure which Big O joke to go with.
Posts: 21898 | Registered: Nov 2004
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Ron Lambert: By the way, I would not say Obama distanced himself from his own pastor "for no reason." He had plently of reason to throw Rev. Wright under the bus. The only question to most people is why he didn't do so sooner.
Do you realize you are only making yourself appear to be slow and rather dimwitted? That is certainly not the "only question to most people." Obama gave an entire speech dealing with race, and dealing with Wright, and if you'd read it, you'd understand how insightful he was, how he threw no one "under the bus," and why he waited to address the words of another person only until they were assigned to him vicariously.
The fact that Wright gave speeches full of invective and race hate, of fear mongering, employing the weapon of racism that he claimed to be opposing, is not Obama's responsibility. Obama did a very fine job of expressing the folly in Wright's words, and following through on his own philosophy, he very carefully showed why he doesn't condemn Wright as a person, for all that he has experienced and done in his life. The fact that you could forgive, and see the immense power in racial politics and defuse it by not engaging in it, was the cornerstone of Obama's speech. Of course, you obviously didn't read that, or you ignored it, and instead took the words and interpretations and opinions of others as your "facts."
Part of Obama's overall philosophy, which has been reflected in much of what he has said and done in his political career, is that wantonly invoking the politics of race, of religion, or of any power outside the individual to change society is useless. It goes against the very grain of Palin's "God wants us to have an oil pipeline," or "Goddamn America for treating people as less than human," which was what Wright said; the idea that we as human beings, and as productive members of our society, should look to God and invoke God where the use of our hands and our minds is required to get what we want. Obama recognizes the danger in that kind of politics, turning the power of wishful thinking, and historical conflict towards our political goals, and confusing the two, and calling that righteous.
Posts: 9912 | Registered: Nov 2005
| IP: Logged |
Printer-friendly view of this topic
![[Smile]](smile.gif)
