quote:Originally posted by Lisa: See, that's just scary. Because the charming and well-spoken is really the extent of his qualifications for the presidency.
I know adolescents go through a phase where being liked is so much more important than doing the right thing. It's a shame to see the USA acting like an adolescent.
Oh, please.
Graduating magma cum laude from Harvard law school and teaching at Chicago Law School?
posted
During President Bush's last couple of years shrill voices on the right claimed that the left were being un-American, to the point of being treasonous, because we wanted Iraq to be a death trap, Afghanistan to become another Iraq, and the economy to sour putting millions into financial ruin, just so they could have something tangible to blame on the President.
Now I wonder if those same voices are not hoping for disaster and death to rain down upon the country just so they can point at the new president and say "I told you so."
Posts: 1941 | Registered: Feb 2003
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Ron Lambert: ElJay, you are trying to build a federal case based on your own ignorance of the various uses of quote marks. If I had left out the quote marks, I might have been implying I thought he was uppity. By putting it in quote marks I was saying that the word is not necessarily true, it just describes Pelosi's evident attitude.
No, your use of quote marks was quite unclear, and you're now using it as a justification for allowing yourself to make racially insensitive remarks, and assign them to OTHER PEOPLE no less, who haven't even said them. So I think you're quite mistaken here.
Posts: 9912 | Registered: Nov 2005
| IP: Logged |
quote:Graduating magma cum laude from Harvard law school and teaching at Chicago Law School? Working as a community organizer? Winning his Senate seat by the widest electoral margin in Illinois history?
All of those are impressive except for maybe the very last one. Jack and Jeri Ryan's divorce documents becoming unsealed and the subsequent revelation of possible spousal abuse blew apart Ryan's chances for the senate seat. For goodness sakes Alan Keyes had to be fielded at the last minute just so the Republican party would have a candidate on the ballot.
You could substitute in "raising more money in his presidential campaign than any other in American history."
Whoa, so you're saying that Seven of Nine, and by extension Star Trek Voyager had a huge impact on Obama's rise to power?
Posts: 9912 | Registered: Nov 2005
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Darth_Mauve: During President Bush's last couple of years shrill voices on the right claimed that the left were being un-American, to the point of being treasonous, because we wanted Iraq to be a death trap, Afghanistan to become another Iraq, and the economy to sour putting millions into financial ruin, just so they could have something tangible to blame on the President.
Now I wonder if those same voices are not hoping for disaster and death to rain down upon the country just so they can point at the new president and say "I told you so."
I think the accusation was wrong the first time, so I'd be slow to agree that it is right now.
Posts: 9912 | Registered: Nov 2005
| IP: Logged |
Bush's 2005 inauguration security (paid by feds): $115m Obama's 2009 inauguration security (paid by feds): $119m
Thanks Tom.
If you adjust those numbers for inflation (I used the inflation rate calculator available here, you find that in 2005 dollars, Obama's inauguration would have cost $41.6 million for the parties and $108 million for security. The difference between that and the cost of Bush's second inauguration is in the noise.
Posts: 12591 | Registered: Jan 2000
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Orincoro: Whoa, so you're saying that Seven of Nine, and by extension Star Trek Voyager had a huge impact on Obama's rise to power?
Wow, I remember when that whole scandal broke, but I never connected it with the actress.
I do agree with Blackblade that the margin of victory in his senate race really can't be credited to Obama. For all practical purposes, the Illinois Republican party simply didn't field a candidate. When they did come up with one, it was only after 7 weeks of uncertainty and was an unpopular out of state political commentator.
Posts: 2437 | Registered: Apr 2005
| IP: Logged |
quote: Graduating magma cum laude from Harvard law school
Can you provide a link for this?
quote:Obama entered Harvard Law School in 1988. In February 1990, he was elected the first African–American editor of the Harvard Law Review. Obama graduated magna cum laude in 1991.
quote:There are plenty of reasons to be against two terms or even term limits without being an Obama fanatic.
Yes, all sorts of morons and fascists oppose term limits, one doesn't need be an Obama fanatic. You can be a Russian or Venezuelan despot instead.
Look, I'm not an American -- but I recognize full well the term limit for the presidency is one of the best ideas that has ever come out of the United States. George Washington established it as one of the best political traditions, and when the tradition was eventually broken in mid-20th century, it was CORRECT and NECESSARY that you codified the term limit into an Amendment.
This particular stupid representative that dared suggest abolishing one of the best ideas ever, should never be elected into office again. Not all countries have term limits, but only countries that want to transform themselves into dictatorships abolish an existing one.
In the name of all the gods, don't abolish yours.
Posts: 676 | Registered: Feb 2003
| IP: Logged |
Blayne Bradley
unregistered
posted
Uuuummmmm we don't have Term Limits in Canada, we beleive it is the best idea in our country as it allowed awesome Prime Minister like trudeau and Jean Cretien and serve the PEOPLE for as long as the PEOPLE want them.
Are you calling Canadians morons and facists?
And when was the tradition broken for you? Oh yes, when FDR was president a hugely popular president who was seen instrumental by the American people in the fight against Nazi Facsism.
posted
I don't support the abolition of presidential term limits, but I wouldn't be opposed to allowing three terms rather than two.
Posts: 16059 | Registered: Aug 2000
| IP: Logged |
posted
Keep in mind that in Canada we have non-confidence motions that can bring down the government if a majority in the Parliament wish it so (versus the rather higher barrier to impeachment in the US system) and the fact that we can also balance the power of a PM via a minority parliament.
In other words, while on paper the PM with no term limits seems more powerful, these other factors make it much easier to unseat a leader.
With the much lower efficiency of the campaigning/governing ratio in the American system (with the huge amounts of time devoted to campaigning, re-election, and lame duck periods), the non-confidence system would be particularly painful so the term limit seems like a decent patch for the problem.
Posts: 7593 | Registered: Sep 2006
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Blayne Bradley: Uuuummmmm we don't have Term Limits in Canada, we beleive it is the best idea in our country as it allowed awesome Prime Minister like trudeau and Jean Cretien and serve the PEOPLE for as long as the PEOPLE want them.
Are you calling Canadians morons and facists?
And when was the tradition broken for you? Oh yes, when FDR was president a hugely popular president who was seen instrumental by the American people in the fight against Nazi Facsism.
Such bad things.
I disagree with the idea that the will of the people is something that always should be followed. Popular opinion must be bound with checks and balances no less than government officials should.
I look at it like a pilot's checklist. Sure, most experienced pilots can probably fly perfectly fine without one, but even the best pilots are still capable of making mistakes, getting sloppy, or missing something that results in failure. Likewise, public opinion can suffer from failures in judgment stemming from all sorts of causes. Whether it is from spur of the moment passion, lack of information, or all sorts of other causes, people can come to a conclusion that is not in their best interest.
It is for this reason that the role of the government should always be firmly laid out in a strong constitution that acts as a guide and a check against the decisions of both popular opinion and the government. Of course, there must be some way to provide the people with ultimate control over the government, but changing these core rules should be sufficiently difficult that they always require extended thought, debate, and approval.
On the specific issue of term limits, I have to say that I am all for them. In fact, I am of the opinion that they ought to be extended to every elected position in the country. I believe that the orderly and regular transfer of power is essential to the health of a country. It helps to provide a constant inflow of new ideas and perspectives to the government, and works to prevent leaders from becoming too complacent in a position. It also provides a clear legitimate path to power for those who seek it, and gives the general public their greatest means to influence public policy.
The threat of a perpetual elected official is by no means an idle one. We have to look no further than the US congress (or certain major cities such as Chicago) to see examples of politicians who are voted in again and again, and again. Ultimately, people like whatever is familiar. So long as the incumbent hasn't screwed up too badly, people tend to turn to them since they represent a known. This tends to leave us with nothing more than base mediocrity, and as I've said before I think it leads to stagnation.
There are few people so great that we cannot afford to lose their service when their term is up, but there are many cases where the public would be served by a regular influx of new people. It's a difficult position for many to put into practice because of our fear of the unknown and willingness to stick with the familiar, but if term limits are enshrined by law or constitution then we can gain the benefits without requiring people to hold themselves to a difficult principle when it comes time to vote.
Posts: 2437 | Registered: Apr 2005
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Darth_Mauve: I have seen pictures of 2 term Presidents--before and after. I don't think 3 terms is very survivable.
FDR managed three. That fourth one, though--ill advised.
Yeah, but you have to grant his presidency was relatively uneventful. Mostly a little dip in the economy and a tiny international tussle. Posts: 1831 | Registered: Jan 2003
| IP: Logged |
posted
I'm not a Libertarian and I don't deify Ron Paul. It's just that, as another said, he seems genuine and doesn't speak through a filter of rhetoric, so even when I disagree with his policies, it still feels like a breath of fresh air. I suppose, since he *is* a politician, it could all be a ploy. But if so, not a successful one. People don't want candor.
I'd have liked Ron Paul to win if for no other reason than there's a chance he'd actually do something different than the same-old Coke/Pepsi/Kodos/Kang choices we've had for so long.
Posts: 454 | Registered: Mar 2005
| IP: Logged |
posted
I recently watched I Claudius. In it Claudius argues that Caligula was chosen as Emperor, because he would make such a terrible emperor that the previous one would be considered brilliant.
I wonder how much of the Obama glorification is similar. Accomplishing nothing is such a step above the previous administration that by comparison he seems godly.
Posts: 1941 | Registered: Feb 2003
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Seatarsprayan: I'm not a Libertarian and I don't deify Ron Paul. It's just that, as another said, he seems genuine and doesn't speak through a filter of rhetoric, so even when I disagree with his policies, it still feels like a breath of fresh air. I suppose, since he *is* a politician, it could all be a ploy. But if so, not a successful one. People don't want candor.
I'd have liked Ron Paul to win if for no other reason than there's a chance he'd actually do something different than the same-old Coke/Pepsi/Kodos/Kang choices we've had for so long.
If the only alternative to Coke/Pepsi/Kodos/Kang is Ron Paul, then I for one welcome our high fructose corn syrup-derived overlords.
Posts: 1321 | Registered: Sep 1999
| IP: Logged |
quote: Graduating magma cum laude from Harvard law school
Can you provide a link for this?
It appears on wikipedia, although I don't know the source, and I didn't say it any way, but that is my understanding.
Posts: 9912 | Registered: Nov 2005
| IP: Logged |
posted
Well, I searched volcanology sites in vain for any mention of magma cum laude. However, there are quite a few sources that say he graduated magna cum laude, including The Harvard newspaper and the Encyclopedia Britannica.
Posts: 3546 | Registered: Jul 2002
| IP: Logged |
Printer-friendly view of this topic
![[Smile]](smile.gif)
