quote:Originally posted by Omega M.: Maybe my problem was that I always had to spend money on my girlfriend to do things I couldn't have cared less about, like going to concerts and shows. I really have no desire to go to events or on vacations or things like that. Going to movies is all right. Have I shrunk my chances of meeting someone to almost nothing?
Not at all. It sounds, instead, like you need to find a way to meet girls who are interested in the same things you are. I'm not all that into going to shows or concerts, so I know we exist. I'm kind of a homebody. I like to stay in, rent a movie, have food delivered to my door, and possibly play games. I like to go out every once in a while.
I don't know if that's the kind of thing you're into or not but if you are then here's the difficulty: The girls you're looking for are sitting at home, not sure how to connect with other people who like the same things. Sucks, doesn't it?
I managed to find someone, so it can be done. Just be patient.
Posts: 2392 | Registered: Sep 2005
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So really it may not be a matter of budget at all. It sounds like you're not into a big "social" life. One problem you're going to run into is that for a lot of young single people, dating isn't just about trying out potential mates, it's about getting out of the house and going to go do things. There's a website called meetup.com, and when you put in your zip code you can find groups interested in social activities, including TV and board games.
I am, by nature, a lot like you. My first choice of fun is usually sitting at home and being by myself. But as a practical matter, I usually force myself to go "places" and go "do things."
It is possible to go years alone in your house without a single pretty woman breaking in and forcing you to have conversation, or an unexpected friend kidnapping you and dragging you out to some activity which turns out to be more fun than you imagined.
Posts: 270 | Registered: Apr 2009
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No, I'm really not into a big social life. I like to go to gym, though I don't go as much as I should, so I'd like to find a girl of similar fitness level that I could work out with. The movies are also okay, as I said.
Concerts and other shows are not that great because you spend way too much time waiting for them to start, finding parking, etc.
Posts: 781 | Registered: Apr 2005
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quote:Concerts and other shows are not that great because you spend way too much time waiting for them to start, finding parking, etc.
[tangent]Only if your enjoyment is entirely dependent on the concert itself and every other event detracts from it. Assuming I'm going to a concert with friends or a girlfriend, then the ride down turns into a fun trip, getting there early and tailgating(if it's nice weather) is a fun precursor, getting in and checking out opening acts can be a real joy and surprise. In short...if I'm with people I enjoy being with, then the concert itself is just one aspect of the overall enjoyment of the experience. [/tangent]
Posts: 8741 | Registered: Apr 2001
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I hope my tone didn't come across as snarky. The plain fact is that you're certain not to find fun and interesting people at home, you've got to get into circulation to increase your odds. And there are a lot of activities which don't involve crowds, long lines, or spending a lot of money (or any money). Volunteer activities, church activities, rec-club classes.... You may just need to think outside the box. Best of luck. Be true to yourself, trust, and take positive steps.
Posts: 270 | Registered: Apr 2009
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Why aren't you charging them anyway when they cancel?
That's an excellent question. The answer is that for most students I do, but generally the rule is that cancellations must be made 24 hours in advance of a lesson. This particular student usually manages to cancel on time. I have had to speak to her a couple of times about the fact that my schedule is being filled with her cancellations, and I would drop her, except that when I do actually work, it's good money. It's a bit of a catch 22- she's cheap, but when she pays, it's not bad.
Other students pay me at least on lesson in advance, and understand that a late cancellation means forfeiture of that fee. The problem is that with private lessons, it's not always possible to nail students down to paying more than a few lessons in advance. They are aware of their power in the relationship, which is not good for me as a teacher, but is also inevitable. When there are people in the market charging half what I charge, I need to take care to cultivate relationships in which I appear to be flexible, but not breakable.
(Add to all that, btw, that I am not billing some of these students formally, but instead working for cash, as I don't yet have my business license. That's standard procedure here, and most teachers work for cash, but it has obvious consequences. Many students, aware of the dilemma, will actually refuse to be billed formally because they don't wish to contribute any of the cost of their lessons to taxes- their attitude is that if you bill them at 400, and pay taxes, they are paying 10% too much. You can tell me this is not a good situation, and I agree, but I'm making money doing it that I would not have otherwise.)
Posts: 9912 | Registered: Nov 2005
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That all sounds reasonable, but I would strongly consider changing my policy to require an additional 24 hours notice for each additional cancellation beyond, say, three times.
So if she cancels on you for the fourth time she has to do it 48 hours prior, the fifth time 72 hours prior, etc.
Basically you're just forcing her to either begin showing up, paying for lessons regardless, or find another teacher. I would consider all of those results an improvement over the situation you described. But then, you're in it, so I'm sure I don't have the full picture.
Posts: 5462 | Registered: Apr 2005
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This might be a strange place for my first post, but oh well. I've lurked on Hatrack for... years, off and on, so I guess I'm finally uncloaking and jumping in the water.
I seem to be in the same type of boat as Synethesia, really: I like guy things or geeky things, the sort of things guys seem to say "Oh, I'd date anyone who did/liked X", but I've never dated or been asked out on a date - the only relationship I've had was online, and that didn't go very well. I play WoW, I'm a Star Wars geek, I read fantasy, I want to learn how to play D&D... typical geeky things, I guess. (I also read OSC and read forums ).
And it's not like I don't know *why* I don't date; I'm a quiet, reserved, intelligent, overweight woman. It's not a good combination for competing with outgoing, giggly, prettily made-up girls my age - perhaps the playing field will level a bit when I get older (i'm 23, and in my first semester of law school), but right now it seems there's little point in trying to find a guy to have a relationship with when there are oodles of girls my age who are, for lack of a better term, physically superior to me.
How much does weight affect dating/attractiveness? I am laid back, easy to get along with - honestly, Omega *could* date me for 10$ a week. I'd much prefer hanging out at home, watching a movie, talking, etc, honestly getting to know each other or doing simple things on a date. Dinner and a movie is fun, but it seems that you wouldn't really get to know a person if that's all you did. I know I "need to lose weight for myself", and all the other encouragements/advice for losing weight, but is it absurd to think that a guy could look past that and be interested in *me*? Or am I having unrealistic dreams by thinking that way?
I'm interested in what y'all (especially those who have dated/married) think about whether factors such as interest in things most 'normal', better-looking girls wouldn't like (WoW) can outweigh things like looks, weight, or shyness.
Posts: 2 | Registered: Apr 2009
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quote:Originally posted by Mouette: I'm interested in what y'all (especially those who have dated/married) think about whether factors such as interest in things most 'normal', better-looking girls wouldn't like (WoW) can outweigh things like looks, weight, or shyness.
It really depends. I haven't dated a lot of girls but I managed to date a slightly plump girl and a thin as paper girl. The one with the most weight-related insecurities was the thin one, and it was those insecurities that were a turn off, not her body. The other one didn't really care and neither did I. I was more interested in how she kept her hair (loved it long), so I guess I was being shallow in my own way. I didn't even have many interests in common with this girl, it just happened that we got along well and started liking each other. The relationship did end, but I doubt that having common interests would have kept us longer together.
So I guess the biggest problem is making yourself known, getting rid of your shyness. Your looks may be a problem for some people, but if they don't *know* you there's little chance they'll fall in love with you. Saying this is a bit ironic since I'm also not doing enough to meet girls, so no matter how well I look ( ) if nobody looks at me it ain't going to help (or hinder).
Posts: 4519 | Registered: Sep 2003
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quote:Originally posted by El JT de Spang: That all sounds reasonable, but I would strongly consider changing my policy to require an additional 24 hours notice for each additional cancellation beyond, say, three times.
So if she cancels on you for the fourth time she has to do it 48 hours prior, the fifth time 72 hours prior, etc.
Basically you're just forcing her to either begin showing up, paying for lessons regardless, or find another teacher. I would consider all of those results an improvement over the situation you described. But then, you're in it, so I'm sure I don't have the full picture.
I'll think about that. Something is going to have to change come july, because she has asked me to begin teacher at her house for 3 hours a day. I have put it to her in very clear terms that in order for me to live in the city during the summer, I am depending on the work she has offered me- otherwise I will have to go somewhere else. As such, I am considering asking her to pay for the whole month at once, for some nominal discount. The very last thing I want is for her to be calling me every other day to cancel if I am using her fees to pay my rent. I'm also going to be looking for additional summer work to supplement and insure my upkeep.
Posts: 9912 | Registered: Nov 2005
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quote:How much does weight affect dating/attractiveness? I am laid back, easy to get along with - honestly, Omega *could* date me for 10$ a week.
You sound super hip, but I don't date overweight women. Other people do, but I think to myself, if she is this big now, at 40, she is going to be the size of a planet. For me, dating someone who can't keep their figure is like dating someone who doesn't read. Huge alarms go off in my head. I say, and my advice is worth as you are paying for it, if you have the foresight to spend 3 years towards a law degree, you can spend seven months to adjust your shape. Take yourself off the market for a year and a half, study and workout with equal vigor, and in a year, you'll be a 24 year old, smoking hot rising third year. The mountain will come to you.
Posts: 5600 | Registered: Jul 2001
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Wow. Dude. You are missing out. Seriously. Not everyone can mainten a super skinny figure for an assortment of reasons that don't always have to do with lack of discipline. Me, I sort of lean towards skinny Asian guys (Like KAORU) But I'm open to all sorts of dudes. Squishy cuddly chubby guys, lunky muscly guys, guys of all kinds of races. As long as the guy isn't a jerk, isn't abusive and doesn't hate rabbits, I'm open.
Posts: 9942 | Registered: Mar 2003
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The issue isn't super skinny it is overweight. And the question, for me, would be how much overweight? If the weight looks unhealthy, I am not going to think about someone as a life partner. Health is important- I also would not be with someone who was superskinny and looked unhealthy that way. And of course, I want someone who can physically keep up with me. I don't do much physical stuff, but if I want to go hiking, he should be able to handle it (I guess that is connected to common interests).
Posts: 2223 | Registered: Mar 2008
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I was going to say something, but decided against it. After all, when it comes to dating, you really can be as discriminating as you wish. So if I say I won't date overweight men or men who smoke, or religious men, or black men, that's alright.
posted
I tend to crush on men who smoke... But I'd have to draw the line at strictly religious guys who think my role is to obey them. Ugh. Such guys can stay away from me. They'll tell me what to do. I don't like that.
Posts: 9942 | Registered: Mar 2003
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quote:The answer is that for most students I do, but generally the rule is that cancellations must be made 24 hours in advance of a lesson.
My daughter had a trombone teacher who was like that. His time was too valuable to whether his plans messed up our plans, so he'd leave a message on our machine on Friday night telling us that he'd just changed the time for her lesson the next day, or that he'd canceled the lesson entirely. And he always explained that he had a concert or something that he should have known about weeks or even months in advance.
Posts: 3735 | Registered: Mar 2002
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quote:Originally posted by Mouette: I'm interested in what y'all (especially those who have dated/married) think about whether factors such as interest in things most 'normal', better-looking girls wouldn't like (WoW) can outweigh things like looks, weight, or shyness.
Wow, isn't this a sensitive topic?
Ok, I'm going to try the blunt approach, but please take this with a grain of salt. I myself am introverted, like to stay at home, and have struggled with weight my entire life. At your age, I was about 220 pounds. I lost 80 of it, which my husband (when we started dating) said was too skinny for my frame. I'm currently 20 pounds heavier than his ideal (which I've decided is the only standard I care about), largely due to pregnancy. And today I ate about 6 cookies. Diet restarts tomorrow!
There are two things going against you, and it's hard to separate them. The weight is a problem, and so is the being in front of your computer playing W0W instead of being around eligible young bachelors. Would it be easier if you were a 5'10" 130-lb blond? Yeah, because men would hit on you if you so much as went to the grocery store. But even the blond would have some trouble finding the right guy if she didn't work at it a bit.
An outgoing girl who has a few extra pounds is likely to have a lot more options, including men who don't mind the extra weight. There are men out there who are attracted to even obese girls, and the only way to find them is to go out and be there.
Of course, dating isn't even easy for attractive, outgoing girls. It can be easy to fall for all the wrong men.
From my personal experience, the best thing I ever did was to lose the weight. I had more energy, I felt better in my clothes, I got to wear more interesting clothes, men started to look at me, and my self-esteem went up a couple of notches. And trust me, I know what the bottom of the self-esteem ladder looks like.
When I went from 220 to 140 lbs, even STRANGERS ON THE STREET started treating me better. I'd get looks, people would come up and talk to me, eevn just to ask for directions. And it wasn't just men. Women treated me better too.
It is not right and it is not fair but it is true.
Weight is about more than appearance, especially when you're dating. It is perceived (whether or not it is true) as a measure of how much you care about yourself.
Also, being in shape and having energy often leads you to doing the kinds of activities that get you out in the world and around men. WoW has it's place, but even an in-person D&D game would be around people.
I've lost track of where I was going with this. I guess I'll sum up with this: Don't let the world get you down. We all get through this sooner or later. Posts: 2392 | Registered: Sep 2005
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SO, it says you want to learn to play DnD. You should go out and learn. Go to your local game store and see if people play there. If you have a good game store, hanging out there would be a good use of time. Ours has some game going all the time. Lots of single males who would love to teach a new player.
Posts: 2223 | Registered: Mar 2008
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posted
I don't know about finding GOOD guys, but if you're into geeky things you shouldn't have a problem getting some attention from at least SOME equally geeky guys. Overweight is far less of an issue than just going out and talking to said guys - trust me, they want the attention just as much as you. And even if you don't talk to them, just going to hang out at comic or games store and someone should talk to you at some point.
Now, I admit that 220 lbs is getting into a range that is genuinely unhealthy. There'd still be potential for attraction there for me, but honestly, I think I'd need to see a really engaging personality shining through. Mouette didn't say exactly where she's at (which is fair enough), but if it's over the 200 mark I think it's worth trying to eat/exercise more purely for the health concerns. But if you're just a little on the chubby side I'm gonna care far more about how interesting you are than a few extra pounds.
"Shyness" isn't precisely an issue for me, because I'm usually outgoing enough for the both of us. Whenever I find myself standing or walking near someone for more then 10 seconds, I turn to them and say "Hey, are you in the mood to have a conversation with a random stranger?" If they say yes, I say "Great! What are your hopes, dreams and aspirations?" (This works about 1/4th of the time. I suspect the people it doesn't work with probably wouldn't be compatible with me anyway. I'm found I'm more attracted to girls who have a good answer to the question)
I must confess I have not ACTUALLY gotten a girlfriend this way yet (or, at all) but I've met a lot of interesting people. I also tend to this when I'm already out biking through parks and market squares, so I'm getting exercise, building confidence, getting better at holding up a conversation in general, and not spending money. All in all I'd call say it's a worthwhile strategy to try.
Posts: 4136 | Registered: Aug 2008
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My wife and my first girlfriend were both obese when we met. I am not obese (but since getting married I'm probably 10 or 15 lbs overweight now). I don't have a special attraction to heavy women, that's just the way it worked out.
I do like the softness.
I'd like my wife to lose weight for her health, and to open up more possibilities for outdoor recreation. (Long hikes aren't really an option right now.)
But I'm very attracted to her and was right at first, even though I think a healthier-looking body shape is more attractive overall.
SO don't feel like you can't get dates or have a relationship just because you're a bit bigger. You already know it'd be better in a number of ways to lose weight, but you don't *have* to be alone until you do, and size doesn't have to be the central fact of your existence.
P.S. How is it helpful to explain that you would never be with a heavy person?
Posts: 4287 | Registered: Mar 2005
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quote:If they say yes, I say "Great! What are your hopes, dreams and aspirations?" (This works about 1/4th of the time. I suspect the people it doesn't work with probably wouldn't be compatible with me anyway. I'm found I'm more attracted to girls who have a good answer to the question)
People who can sum up their life's meaning in an answer?
Posts: 8473 | Registered: Apr 2003
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People who either A) have a sense of where they are going in life, or B) can make up an otherwise interesting answer on the spot.
Either case seems like a better measure of compatibility to me than whether you're a few pounds above the national average.
Posts: 4136 | Registered: Aug 2008
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I think that the opening is good, but asking someone to engage in conversation and then asking a question that puts the burden of the conversation entirely on them is asking a bit much. I suspect you would get a better than 25% success rate if you changed your follow up to something that didn't put them on the spot immediately. For me, even when I've had a answer, the question would seem awfully presumptuous from someone in the situation you've laid out.
Posts: 7954 | Registered: Mar 2004
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That's kind of what I was thinking -- what a presumptuous question. We've said less then a dozen words to one another and now you want me to sum up my essence in five sentences or less? No, thanks. As it happens, I've had people try to do that kind of thing to me before. From my perspective, the question itself made it abundantly clear that we were not suited for one another. Relationships are built over time on small moments of trust and revelation, not clever one-liners.
Posts: 2392 | Registered: Sep 2005
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Fare enough. But as I said, this hasn't gotten me a girlfriend (although it led to some good friendships), so I'm not standing by it as a way to jumpstart a relationship, just as a way to meet people and have interesting conversations in general. The people who are obviously not impressed I say good day to and leave be.
I also DO try to use other openings when they present themselves, but that varies wildly on the situation. Generally, the "hopes, dreams aspirations" line is what I use when there's no obvious hook to start a conversation with, and so the options are either no conversation at all or a 75% chance of mild, short lived annoyance vs 25% chance of interesting conversation that could last anywhere from 10 minutes to 6 hours.
>>>From my perspective, the question itself made it abundantly clear that we were not suited for one another.
True. And I'd rather find that out sooner rather than later.
Posts: 4136 | Registered: Aug 2008
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quote:Weight is about more than appearance, especially when you're dating. It is perceived (whether or not it is true) as a measure of how much you care about yourself.
This, I think, is the clincher. A healthy relationship should be between two people who have a relatively realistic view of their self-worth and so are not, to a huge extent, looking for a relationship as a constant means of external validation ('if I marry this type of person, then that must mean I am good enough'). That is not to say we don't all feel depressed or down on ourselves, or that we don't feel worthless at times. And friends (whether they are an SO or not) can play a huge role in helping us through this. But that should not be the bulk of the relationship, nor should that be the SO's primary role. And so, for me at least, I look for things that indicate a healthy self-respect and, to a certain extent, fearlessness to take on the world.
So in this context, then, not taking care of ones health and oneself (which, I think, is the core issue, since 'overweight', to an extent, is a very subjective thing), is an indicator of low-self esteem or passiveness that I personally don't find attractive. Even as I understand it, since I have to also be careful with food and am slightly overweight (which is why I exercise regularly).
Not to be overlooked, then, is what you do for yourself that shows you care about yourself and the way you view yourself and want others to view you. So clothes can play a role. I've known beautiful women who are a bit overweight. But they also carry themselves with confidence, dress to flatter themselves (as opposed to dressing like a skinny 18 yr old, which, Yikes!), and have amazing personalities. All of which made them very attractive to me. Of course, in general, I like realistic healthy looking women (though I am a guy, so, you know, the 'shallow' things appeal too...), so generally superskinny waifs are not my thing. And yet again, confidence, personality, etc, all can tip the scales to a direction I did not incline, as it has done in the past.
posted
Speaking as a woman, I agree also with that statement ("Weight is more than appearance...").
It's funny, but both my fiancé and I at some point in time made it a point to lose weight long before we met, and for both of us it was about health. While that did help both of us to gain some confidence, it's not the sole source of it either. When he mentioned he'd lost weight in the past, that did, however, say to me that this guy cared enough to invest in his current and future health, which was and is attractive. What he's willing to do for himself is also what he's willing to do for those who care about him and who will get to enjoy his company longer (at least, potentially).
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