quote:Originally posted by Orincoro: (edit: directed at mal)
Uhuh. That's the reason. Tell yourself that- it has *nothing* to do with the generic nature of your "opinions," which are not so much opinions as they are a collection of postcards strewn with magazine clippings bearing cryptic messages in the words of other people, or of no one in particular. It's not that your personality is big or looming or simply contrary, it's that it is insubstantial, and always trite.
quote:Originally posted by Orincoro: (edit: directed at mal)
Uhuh. That's the reason. Tell yourself that- it has *nothing* to do with the generic nature of your "opinions," which are not so much opinions as they are a collection of postcards strewn with magazine clippings bearing cryptic messages in the words of other people, or of no one in particular. It's not that your personality is big or looming or simply contrary, it's that it is insubstantial, and always trite.
Wow, big words....I'm sure you were quite impressed with yourself for stringing together that statement. Using trite on top of it, I'm sure you've impressed anyone reading this, if not as much as you've impressed yourself.
The words are mine and mine alone. Dismiss everyone who shares the words and opinion if you like. Insubstantial?....don't even know what you mean. Anyone one who can waste their time one a blog is insubstantial. In that arena, you've definitely got me beat. Do you even have a job?
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quote: At the same time President Obama is asking members of Congress to take one of the most politically difficult votes of their careers, he is also pressing lawmakers to give up one of their most valued perks of office: boosting Medicare payments to benefit hometown providers.
quote: Setting reimbursement rates for local hospitals, doctors, home health-care centers and other providers is a legislative ritual that amounts to one of the most effective and lucrative forms of constituent service. Delivering federal money through Medicare, the country's largest insurance program, can be a powerful tool on the campaign trail, allowing lawmakers to argue that they are creating jobs and improving the quality of health care for voters.
Longtime members of Congress have become masters at dominating the tug of war between keeping providers flush and trying to rein in the entitlement program's dramatic growth. House Ways and Means Chairman Charles B. Rangel (D-N.Y.) champions New York City's teaching hospitals. Charles E. Grassley (Iowa), the Senate Finance Committee's ranking Republican, makes sure rural health-care services are amply funded. Months before Sen. Ted Stevens (R-Alaska) left office, he secured a permanent 35 percent increase in Medicare payments for Alaska physicians.
posted
Well..I need to get some rest. You see, I work night shift and although I've been supporting myself since I was 16 and worked full time while putting myself through college, I now make over six figures and am considered privileged. I need to pay my fair share to the unfortunate high school dropouts who didn't have the same opportunities that I had. I work two weeks per month for my family and hope the money from my other two weeks is going to good use at the hands of the government.
quote:Originally posted by malanthrop: Well..I need to get some rest. You see, I work night shift and although I've been supporting myself since I was 16 and worked full time while putting myself through college, I now make over six figures and am considered privileged. I need to pay my fair share to the unfortunate high school dropouts who didn't have the same opportunities that I had. I work two weeks per month for my family and hope the money from my other two weeks is going to good use at the hands of the government.
Ask yourself that question again when you hop on the freeway, or open an important piece of mail. My parents just moved into a home they built with decades worth of savings, one of the movers noticed my mothers jewelry box and helped himself to four rings. The fact the rings are worth a fortune is inconsequential compared to the emotional bond those particular pieces meant to my mother.
The police were at our house the next day, the work crew were all questioned, prints were lifted off the box, they made an arrest that same morning, obtained a confession, returned the loot to my mother. It was solid police work, I'm more than happy to support those men in what they do.
Oh, btw, why don't you go look up how many people lose their jobs and have their companies actively litigate against them in an attempt to block their claiming unemployment benefits. The state of Maryland had to help out a friend of mine dealing with just that. Your tax dollars working towards stopping greedy corporations from stiffing workers.
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Malanthrop, perhaps the reason folks suspect you're lying is because it's in the experience of plenty of folks that when guys on the Internet make unprompted statements about remarkable life stories and very high salaries, they turn out to be less than trustworthy folks on such matters.
Particularly when they've so very, very clearly got axes to grind.
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quote:Originally posted by malanthrop: Well..I need to get some rest. You see, I work night shift and although I've been supporting myself since I was 16 and worked full time while putting myself through college, I now make over six figures and am considered privileged. I need to pay my fair share to the unfortunate high school dropouts who didn't have the same opportunities that I had. I work two weeks per month for my family and hope the money from my other two weeks is going to good use at the hands of the government.
And despite all this money you say you make you are completely incapable of not spontaneously bragging about yourself without being prompted and in the process looking like an egocentric and very silly person!
Go get some rest, buddy. The night shift is killing your poor 'gifted' brain.
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posted
Well, I actually thought his other post was a little more telling of his insecurities- he mocks me for using words like "trite" and "insubstantial?" The obvious implication being that I am using the words as a pretense toward asserting a higher social standing. Weird that he turns around in his next post to brag about his salary, after he's just implied to me that I'm masquerading as some upper class person, but that I probably don't have a job. It's funny how our own insecurities are the ones that come out when we insult other people (my being aware of the double-edged nature of that comment, of course). What hurts us seems like a natural weapon that would work on anyone.
Actually Mal, the brass tacks are that I *didn't* work my way through college (though I worked at different jobs during that time), that I'm glad I didn't have to, and that I am quite happy to continue taking money from my parents when I need it (though truth to tell, it's less and less often necessary), and that I'm quite at peace with and thankful for the luck I have in all of that. Your anger at your parents, or at the obvious injustice of your educational difficulties is a little strange coming from the mouth of someone who wishes nothing more than to allow that situation to continue- you're a bit like a bully who used to picked on, and now romanticizes the experience in order to escape the pain and guilt of your helplessness. We all know what that's like, I expect. One thing I'm not clear on is how you managed to get through college with that kind of attitude towards your fellow students. I met a lot of people like you in school, and a whole lot of them were bitter, angry, impatient, and generally got as little out of their educations as possible. By no means the rule, but it happened.
Come to think Samp, you use a lot of words I don't know... maybe *you* don't have a job! According to the Malanthrop sliding scale, according to your vocabulary and diction, you should be payed even less than I am, which would be hard to do and still eat.
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when you sit on your ass all day long and eat tons of twinkies, cakes and cheesy puffs, your body feels bad, making you feel bad, making you want to make others feel bad.
So how about you take passive aggressive pot shots at me then cry like a girl the first time she gets her period when I say you're a tubby mound of lame sauce.
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posted
I will re-enter the Barack Obama, Goldman Sachs/The Fed, and the Economy discussion in the very near future.
I am taking two classes this semester at two different colleges an hour apart. I had a test in Spanish II today and turned in my first project in Producing the Narrative film.
In the summer, one week is like a regular term month, so I haven't slept in 63 hours. Must sleep. Or drink more beer and stare at the stars.
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posted
I would like to add that Obama has acted in just about the way, good and bad, that I expected him to when I voted for him.
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posted
I'm not bragging about my income. Mid shift pays differential pay which is higher and I have two jobs, one full time and one part time. I didn't intend to suggest anyone was either rich or unemployed, but to get quick responses from the same few people 24x7 suggests something about their free time.
What the voting suckers out there fail to realize is that income taxes do not apply to the truly wealthy in our society, the one's in control. The Pelosi's, Heinz-Kerry's and Kennedy's inherited vast wealth and do not rely on working/personal annual income and non-profit foundations cover their living expenses. $250k per year is nothing to the powerhouses who sell the class warfare to the suckers out there. They are vastly wealthy, not on income but assets that have already passed through the barrier of taxation. As always, the middle class pays. The dollar has dropped 25% in three months. Anyone suggest adding 25% to the "rich" ceiling of $250k? Since you bought the $250k line during the campaign, adjusted for the tanking dollar shouldn't it now be $315k???
These thresholds are set by the truly wealthy and prevent the middle and upper middle from achieving wealth. When you hit a point where >50% of your annual income is taken from you, it is extremely difficult if not impossible to get past that point. Pelosi, Kerry and Keneddy are well beyond that point. $250k a year to them is a ceiling for little people.
I work very hard and came from very meager means. My lack of sympathy for others is directly tied to my belief in this dream. You drop out and don't work for something better, you get what you deserve. Anyone can achieve in this society....at least for now. How many people do you think are reconsidering majoring in Medicine right now????? When the government decides to limit the pay of doctors to that of plumbers, we'll have fewer doctors and the one's left will have the intelligence of a plumber.
quote:The dollar has dropped 25% in three months. Anyone suggest adding 25% to the "rich" ceiling of $250k? Since you bought that line during the campaign, adjusted for the tanking dollar shouldn't it now be $315k???
We haven't had 25% inflation.
quote:My lack of sympathy for others is directly tied to my belief in this dream. You drop out and don't work for something better, you get what you deserve. Anyone can achieve in this society....at least for now.
Achievement is how much you actually achieve, how much good you do. It is not measured by the percentage of the net gain produced by your achievement that you keep in your own paycheck. A person could give their entire paycheck to the government, yet that wouldn't necessarily mean he had achieved any less.
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quote:I'm not bragging about my income. Mid shift pays differential pay which is higher and I have two jobs, one full time and one part time. I didn't intend to suggest anyone was either rich or unemployed, but to get quick responses from the same few people 24x7 suggests something about their free time.
Malanthrop, when you make unprompted unqualified statements about your salary, and it's a six-figure salary, many people are generally going to be mistrustful online in my experience. And when you make unprompted unqualified statements about it and use it as some sort of argument, as you did, it certainly comes off as bragging, regardless of your intent.
As for what responses suggest, first of all I very much doubt you've actually studied that little bit of interaction in a scientific and objective way, and second, if you're constantly busting ass and making hoards of cash the good old fashioned way at your six-figure night job...how exactly are you posting 24/7 to get these responses you speak of?
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quote:Mid shift pays differential pay which is higher and I have two jobs, one full time and one part time.
And you have kids? Seriously, you aren't scoring any points with me for that one, then.
Neglecting your children to earn a six-figure income just suggests to me that you're irresponsible. You'd pay a lot less in taxes if you saw your kids more often.
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quote:Originally posted by malanthrop: I'm not bragging about my income.
Yes you are.
quote: Do you even have a job?
quote: I didn't intend to suggest anyone was either rich or unemployed
Yes you did.
quote: but to get quick responses from the same few people 24x7 suggests something about their free time.
I'm on vacation, for 3 weeks. I can't afford to go on a trip, so I took a bus to Paris to stay at the house of a family friend- would also explain why I post "24/7" IE, what appears to be early in the morning to you. It's a big world- you should have considered that.
quote: I work very hard and came from very meager means. My lack of sympathy for others is directly tied to my belief in this dream. You drop out and don't work for something better, you get what you deserve. Anyone can achieve in this society....at least for now.
In the past thirtry years, the prosperity experienced in the United States has had a couple of odd effects on "the American Dream." Firstly, though recorded poverty rates are lower, because they are tied to cost of food (which has gone down). Actual poverty, and especially homelessness or lack of appropriate housing has risen sharply in the past two decades, do in part to the lifting of many government controls on rents, as well as the ending of many social housing programs that helped working people to find affordable shelter. That in combination with a hugely inflated housing market, that could afford to cater to the richest 20%, and ignore the rest of the market completely. Thus, the sizes of houses increase for the rich, while the poor have less and less prospect of finding homes. Today, the majority of wage workers continue to work under what is considered by the government to be a livable wage. Since 1973, there has been a consistent fall off in the affordability of homes when compared to the average wage of the bottom two deciles of our working classes. The subprime mortgages didn't change that fact, but only continued to make it worse, as the prices of all housing shot up disproportionately, with the incomes of the top two deciles. Rents are not inflation proof- that is why they must be controlled. Because rents will always rise in this system, while wages and the cost of food (our standard markers for determining livability) are relatively inflation proof.
Today in America, it is more expensive to be poor than to be rich. While homeowners receive thousands of dollars a year in tax credits, dropping the percentages of their incomes spent on housing to well below a third (and subsequently increasing the prices of homes and the affordability of lower income housing), renters and people without the capital to invest in a home face rents at over a third, to half or more of their incomes, with absolutely no government assistance. Same thing that's happened with government subsidies for cars, rather than money spent on public transportation- it all happens because the wealthy are in control of the purse strings, not because "we're all free to make our way." The government started doing it this way, because a tax credit is a hell of a lot easier to take away when it is needed than a social program, even if the tax credit will put more money back into the hands of the wealthy, and do nothing for the poor. You ignore this, and I wonder why- why is it so terrible to ensure the health of working people? Because I can assure you, we're not talking about lazy people- we're talking about people who are being squeezed from every side, and being blamed for it too.
Your dismissal of this problem, along with the hand waving "bootstraps" argument, is an arrogant, (and patently fallacious) stance, encouraged by the wealthy, and inculcated among members of every class of our society by our willing blindness to poverty. It is based, quite simply, on the fallacy of anecdote. The fact is that as long as the labor market is unwilling in the short term to paying a living wage, and as long as the government is unwilling to ensure the health of our working class by helping to provide housing, medical services, and other social assistance, the majority of the poor, regardless of individual successes, will remain poor. That is an ineluctable fact, not affected by the prosperity of society, not improved over time, or by any individual good luck story- as long as the bottom decile of our society works for a substandard wage, and as long as this is not acted upon by us as voters and by our government, we will continue to see poverty spread. Your own personal bonus points for not being poor today are meaningless in this equation- the fact remains, undeniably, that you cannot erase poverty without widespread systemic change. Now, you can hem and haw and wheedle on about your upbringing or your race and heritage or question mine or anybody else's, but you can't change the brass tacks of this problem. Hell, before I explained it just now, I'm sure you'd never even thought of it.
I have a book to recommend to you- it's about low wage work in America, and the political and social blindness we have developed towards poverty, how poverty has "disappeared" as the trappings of wealth become available cheeply to the poor, even as essentials, such as health care and housing, are denied to them. It's called "Nickel and Dimed-" it's a very widely read book by Barbara Ehrenreich, I read it years ago as part of a writing class, I believe.
posted
The drop in the dollar isn't directly proportional to immediate inflation, just as unemployment is a lagging indicator. Here you can look at the graph for the exchange rate since the new year: http://www.x-rates.com/d/USD/EUR/hist2009.html
I absolutely agree that achievement has little to do with wealth. I came from a poor family with exceptional parents. Watching my children grow up as good individuals is my greatest achievement. What gives me a sense of accomplishment in life is providing for my family and teaching my children values and work ethic. Unfortunately, there's a segment of our society that believes that someone who works 60+ hours a week and has made great sacrifice owes them something. Just as in the minds of some, the ends justifies the means, they look at another person's end result and ignore the means it took them to get there.
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Not surprised you are online. I asked if you even had a job after you stated I was "insubstantial". My response was to suggest that it is quite possible I make a much more substantial contribution for my fellow man in the form of taxes due to my hard work for many decades.
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quote:Unfortunately, there's a segment of our society that believes that someone who works 60+ hours a week and has made great sacrifice owes them something.
Personally, I believe that someone who works 60+ hours a week isn't watching his children grow up.
Posts: 37449 | Registered: May 1999
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posted
Godamn it, you DON'T LISTEN. How the hell did a hard working person like yourself become so horrible selfish?
quote: they look at another person's end result and ignore the means it took them to get there.
Mal, listen to yourself. You want people to look at your situation and ignore the fact that it is not achievable by others. You want to maintain your privilege while claiming it is not a privilege, but a right, and you want to do so by convincing others that you are special- that you "worked harder" or were "taught right." You are blind.
Talk about the people thinking you owe them something. YOU DO OWE SOMETHING. We as a society owe it to ourselves, to establish an amenable and fair system of government, which distributes resources where they are needed- this depends on our contributions. You like roads right? You pay for those. You like cops and firemen? You owe it to your neighbors to pay for those too. Would you like for 20% of the working class to not be involved in the criminal justice system, or hobbled by treatable medical conditions, or living in squalor, because we have chosen as a society to focus on achieving their basic needs?
It's funny how selective we are about these things, but they all affect you. The poor affect you, and you owe it to your society and to yourself to pay your damned taxes, and have a little compassion. But no, no, I'm sure you'd like to see the gross national product spent on some weapon for killing brown people. Good idea. Very constructive.
I'm not talking about the drop in the dollar by the way, I'm talking about the disconnect between housing costs and wages.
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quote:Unfortunately, there's a segment of our society that believes that someone who works 60+ hours a week and has made great sacrifice owes them something.
Personally, I believe that someone who works 60+ hours a week isn't watching his children grow up.
If didn't have to give half my income for people who work 0 hours a week I could work 40. Or I could choose to work 0, as some do, and spend plenty of quality time with them in the projects.
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Not surprised you are online. I asked if you even had a job after you stated I was "insubstantial". My response was to suggest that it is quite possible I make a much more substantial contribution for my fellow man in the form of taxes due to my hard work for many decades.
What, read my post. I'm on vacation, and I'm in a different time zone. I work 40 hours a week like everybody else, so stop being an asshole, please.
"surprised your online???" you're online smart guy, and I'm the one on his vacation.
You were obviously lying when you claimed not to be suggesting I didn't work, or bragging about your income- you were doing both.
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quote:If didn't have to give half my income for people who work 0 hours a week I could work 40.
Or you could simply make less money, and trade material things for time with your children. You'd also pay fewer taxes, which would probably make you a lot happier.
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I work nights. Whether I post in the middle of the night on my day off, early in the morning after coming home from work, or late in the evening prior to going to work, there's Oro with a quick response.
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posted
I dunno Tom, suggesting he change anything about himself seems a bit like getting blood from a stone. It's hard to see how he spends any time with his kids if he works 60 hours a week and posts here- I only work 40, and just posting takes time out from other stuff like reading, and I don't even have kids.
I'm sure he's going to respond that he somehow spends more time with his kids than any parents ever- probably something like: "I spend 40 hours a week with my kids, and 20 hours of my week with other people's kids because they won't spend time with their own children, because they're poor and dirty and probably foreigners."
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I work nights. Whether I post in the middle of the night on my day off, early in the morning after coming home from work, or late in the evening prior to going to work, there's Oro with a quick response.
Uh. Dude, did it EVER occur to you that I might have the same waking schedule as you? I LIVE IN EUROPE. NOT THE UNITED STATES. IT'S A DIFFERENT TIME ZONE- there is a difference of 6-9 HOURS.
And since I am ON VACATION, I STAY UP LATE IN THE EVENINGS, and SLEEP IN, in the mornings, for THREE WEEKS. GET IT THROUGH YOUR SKULL.
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quote:If didn't have to give half my income for people who work 0 hours a week I could work 40.
Or you could simply make less money, and trade material things for time with your children. You'd also pay fewer taxes, which would probably make you a lot happier.
You're right...I think the gang bangers have it all figured out. Sell under the counter narcotics, not marry they baby momma. She can deny who the father is while collecting medicaid, foodstamps and section 8 housing and I can be a good father to my children at the taxpayers expense. Wait, don't see too many dad's around the projects in my area.
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posted
There are projects in your area? With your income?
Man, you must live in California.
--------
But, no, seriously, you can work fewer hours without working no hours. That is, for example, exactly the decision I've made. And so I wind up paying less than 20% of my income in taxes after various deductions, even including sales taxes (although I buy a lot of things online to deliberately avoid 'em), and yet manage to keep my kids relatively well-provided-for.
That's not to say that this would be the right decision for you. Maybe you need to make at least 30% more than our current household salary to provide for your family. But I suspect that's not the case.
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posted
You know, these conversations could run at like 25% power or less, and there'd still be plenty of illumination without burning out. Hatrack needs CFLs.
Not gonna point fingers, because there's people overboard in many directions. Please lighten up, folks, and quit the personal attacks, (and again I say) whether you think they're deserved or not.
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posted
Um, Mal....Assuming that the supply of good livers is smaller than the demand for those livers, how would you prefer to decide who gets those livers? Because, y'know, capitalism won't suddenly make more livers magically appear -- which means that if this guy didn't die, someone else would have. His death meant that somebody else actually got a liver.
I'm not sure how that would work differently in America.
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Livers are a wonderous organs. Unlike a heart, you can split them. I could give half of mine to my brother.
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quote:Originally posted by malanthrop: You're right...I think the gang bangers have it all figured out. Sell under the counter narcotics, not marry they baby momma. She can deny who the father is while collecting medicaid, foodstamps and section 8 housing and I can be a good father to my children at the taxpayers expense. Wait, don't see too many dad's around the projects in my area.
I never realized it until now, but Malanthrop appears to be a collective being forged of mass conservative social hallucinations.
I mean, seriously.
Just look at this post.
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quote:Originally posted by Papa Janitor: Not gonna point fingers, because there's people overboard in many directions. Please lighten up, folks, and quit the personal attacks, (and again I say) whether you think they're deserved or not.
I think you should point fingers. I'm asking you to point fingers. In fact, I'm quite surprised you're not pointing fingers given what has been said.
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posted
That was a response suggesting I work fewer hours to spend more time with my my children. Problem is someone needs to support the illegitimate children. I worked very, very hard and paid off extensive student loans so that I could be a good father and provider. Problem is someone else has to pay for the child of a promiscuous high school dropout and another useless sperm donor. I'm a responsible parent who works two weeks a month for my family and two weeks a month for the government. Don't accuse me of being a bad parent for working too much. My money supports more than one family. Even without taxes, I would work 100 hours to support mine alone. If the current tax situation requires me to work 60 to pay for mine and a welfare family, I have no choice. I'll always support my family, even if it requires I support another.
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posted
Yeah, he doesn't get it. Well, whatever. I wasn't expecting him to understand what you were saying Tom.
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posted
The first totally out of line post was yours, Orincoro. I think you were by far the biggest cause of the downfall of this thread. Malanthrop undoubtedly believes he responded in kind, and has pretty much been on the defensive from you ever since. Thor may have been publicly reacting to your attitude rather than a perceived attack on him (though from your point of view I would certainly see you calling someone the same person as malanthrop an insult, and perhaps he reacted to that) -- either way it wasn't a good way to respond.
I don't think it helps to point this out publicly, but I'm willing to admit I might not be right. Let's see.
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posted
I just want to point out that police and fire are paid, predominantly by local taxes, not federal ones. These taxes are paid above and beyond the bottom line of your 1040.
Roads are built and maintained by the gas tax, not the income tax. This is a just tax.
Federal income taxes primarily pay for defense and massive social programs. (and these days, useless bailouts and "stimulus" packages.)
I also pay over 50% of my income in state and federal taxes. Most of it goes to support people who would spit on me for being different.
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quote:Originally posted by Orincoro: Yeah, he doesn't get it. Well, whatever. I wasn't expecting him to understand what you were saying Tom.
I wasn't replying to Tom's statement about who should get the liver. The fact is, they denied his need for a new liver outright when they could have split one. People fail to see the path this is leading to. What about a morbidly obese diabetic? Why waste the govt expense for someone who can't stop eating? How about the smoker who needs chemo medicine? Why waste tax payer money on a smoker with cancer? Obviously the decision wasn't base on life expectancy, it was based upon the patients behavior. A 22 year old drinker being flat out denied a liver transplant???? What's next, no chemotherapy for a 30 year smoker. No insulin for a 28 year old fat man who likes to eat? My grandmother had a hip replacement when she was 73 and now she's doing fantastic. I imagine that is much less likely in the UK. Here you need it, you get it, no other considerations. Let a govt beuroctat decide based upon a metric and you get 22 year olds denied a liver due to their behavior. You control medicine, you control the person. Behave, eat and consume what the govt says or you will die.
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quote:Originally posted by Papa Janitor: The first totally out of line post was yours, Orincoro. I think you were by far the biggest cause of the downfall of this thread.
I'm willing to own up to being the first, or even to being the cause. I'm surprised that you're letting what was said to me fly by without comment, when it's far beyond anything I've every said to anyone here. I think if it were someone else who was spoken to that way, you would have done something about it.
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quote:Originally posted by malanthrop: Oh, sorry. Didn't realize you lived in Europe. Hope you don't need dental work or are a 22 year old in need of a liver transplant.
He would've lived in the Capitalist American health care system.
*mildly
Alcoholism without a documented period of rehabilitation under normal living circumstances (usually 6 months or more) is a reason why persons are denied liver transplantation in the US as well.
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posted
Or you could, you know, stop drinking and smoking so much, and get on a better diet because that costs a hell of a lot less than liver transplants, chemotherapy, and diabetes medication.
And because it's healthy.
I don't know the details of the 22 year old in the UK. To be declared an alcoholic at 22 indicates that he had made attempts before and failed, or actively resisted attempts to stop drinking. Was he on a waiting list? I know waiting lists have requirements, and I'm sure one of them is to stop drinking. Maybe they couldn't find a willing match for his liver? I think it's a much more complicated issue than what you have boiled it down into.
ETA: Or what CT said, who knows a lot more about me about these things.
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posted
WW, at least with UNOS, we would have had to undergo treatment for alcoholism, been documented clean and in treatment for a long period of time, before he could be bumped up the list to receive a transplant- and every more legitimate recipient would still go first.
That may seem cruel, but giving a liver to an alcoholic who is not in recovery is wasting a liver, virtually guaranteed.
Posts: 9912 | Registered: Nov 2005
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quote:Originally posted by TomDavidson: Because, y'know, capitalism won't suddenly make more livers magically appear -- which means that if this guy didn't die, someone else would have. His death meant that somebody else actually got a liver.
I'm not sure how that would work differently in America.
What Tom said.
quote:Originally posted by malanthrop: The fact is, they denied his need for a new liver outright when they could have split one.
It's not just a matter of obtaining sufficient tissue; i.e., "splitting one." Blood and tissue matching is a major limiting factor. As Tom noted, the supply is insufficient to the demand, and that is in good part because the process is more complicated and intensive than it may appear to the superficial gaze.
quote:Liver Transplant Overview Currently, more than 17,000 people in the United States are waiting for liver transplants. According to the United Network for Organ Sharing (UNOS), about 5,300 liver transplantations were performed in the United States in 2002.
The liver is the second most commonly transplanted major organ, after the kidney...
Who may not be given a liver: A person who needs a liver transplant may not qualify for one because of the following reasons:
Active alcohol or substance abuse: Persons with active alcohol or substance abuse problems may continue living the unhealthy lifestyle that contributed to their liver damage. Transplantation would only result in failure of the newly transplanted liver.
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According to the Malanthrop sliding scale, according to your vocabulary and diction, you should be payed even less than I am, which would be hard to do and still eat.
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