quote:Originally posted by advice for robots: I have to say Martin still owns Sanderson, IMO, although their styles are so different that it's not really apples to apples. Sanderson owns Jordan and Goodkind, however, although Brandon probably wouldn't want any comparison to Jordan.
Both writers rely too heavily on archetypes (rather than characterization) to convey personality. Jordan was a master of characterization, though he didn't have a real handle on much else.
Martin's characters really don't show the growth, however, that Sanderson is able to convey. They are very static. I love the idea of a tragic hero / heroinne, but Martin seems to exploit the notion. Sanderson, however, shows characters in a constant state of thought and change.
Both authors do a good job of pacing -- Martin is slow and steady while Sanderson uses a lot of motion. One uses an imagined world of the highest caliber, while one uses a very detailed mirror of our own history.
Plotting, pacing, story devices -- all of that aside, Sanderson shows his marks in his consistency and characterization. His writing may prove slightly more formulaic at times, but it's consistently stronger.
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In terms of imagery, Martin wins hands down. I am always able to see with clarity whatever scene Martin is describing (which is often why I have a hard time taking Martin in large doses--I get overloaded with the vividness of it). Sanderson doesn't do a good job with it IMO. I have a hard time picturing what is happening in his scenes.
Sanderson is very plot-driven. After Way of Kings I can already tell what elements are going to play into the resolution of the story in Book 3. He builds every detail in very meticulously, and everything is there for a purpose.
I get the feeling Martin is feeling it out as he goes along. There won't be a neat tying up of all the details when (if) the series ever concludes.
I do agree that Sanderson is good at bringing characters through change. Martin, however, does it much more subtly, or maybe by the sheer volume of experiences you endure with the person. I still don't know why I like Jaime now, and when that transition occurred. But many of his characters are pretty static, even though they are well defined.
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This past week, I read The Hunger Games trilogy by Suzanne Collins.
It was FANTASTIC. They were so gripping that I ended up with a Lost Weekend, where I blew off two parties, a cake-baking session, two workouts, and homework so I could do nothing but read. I haven't had a lost weekend like that in a long time, but the books made it worth it. Tightly written and edited, brilliantly plotted, strong characters, no one is a horrible person and no one is a saint, surprises all along the way, and a definite evocation of realism that led to the story haunting me for the entire next day (I finished early Sunday morning). I can't recommend them enough.
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I really enjoyed Sanderson's Mistborn trilogy, even if the last book dragged quite a bit. How many chapters ended with a character thinking, "We're doomed. DOOOOOMMMEDDD!" It got a bit wearing, and then everything whirled together a little too fast. It felt like there was a lot of filler. But I really liked it, and while I love The Song of Fire and Ice, at least Sanderson is actually writing and publishing. I hope Martin hasn't frozen with fear because of his own success.
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What bothers me most about Martin (other than the fact that character growth is glacial, if existant at all) is the fact that he seems to actively avoid showing conflict, action, and / or battle scenes. In the first two books of ASOIAF (the only ones I've read so far), there were SO many good chances, and he missed them all.
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Huh. I have to take Martin in small doses precisely because there is so much action and no punches are pulled. I read him wincing every paragraph, waiting to get blindsided again. It's a world of monsters that can attack at any moment.
Sanderson has more faith in humanity, I think.
Hunger Games--loved the first one, was OK with the second, and finished the third only after two tries and some prodding. I felt she did her best writing in the first book when the idea was fresh, and struggled over the next two books with what was left--a weak love triangle.
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It was the second that I felt was a little directionless, at least until the Quarter Quell started. I loved the third book precisely for its chaos and senseless casualties - it felt like a war.
While the love triangle was a little prolonged, I loved the resolution of it - it made sense. It wasn't mythic or destined and she wasn't stupid or enthralled, but how it worked out made perfect sense to me. She had solid and sensible reasons for the life she chose.
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I LOVE the first Hunger Games. And I remember being impressed by the second book because it still felt fresh and unique even though she was basically repeating the plot of the first book.
I waited months for the third book and could not have been more disappointed. I understand what she was trying to do and I agree that it was a realistic depiction of war, but it also lacked all the elements that made me fall in love with the series (the action and the characters).
I'm starting the sequel to "Maze Runner" tonight and I'm actually afraid that its going to let me down like "Mockingjay" did.
I did just finish Rick Riordan's "The Lost Hero" which is a new series that is a sequel his Percy Jackson books. Characters from that series make some cameo appearances but its still about this new generation of demi-gods. I thought it was pretty good aside from a few nitpicks. I was happy that he stopped doing so many out-of-body dream sequences. He overused it in the Percy Jackson books and then massively abused it in "The Red Pyramid." They're still there in this new books but its not as prevalent. However, he's moved onto a new obsession with letting multiple characters take the lead in various chapters. In "The Red Pyramid," the brother and sister trade off telling their story and in "The Lost Hero" there are now three different characters that Riordan switches between. It would be obnoxious if I didn't enjoy his side-kick characters so much. It makes me wish he'd tell a story entirely from the perspective of a character who ISN'T the lead hero.
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quote:Originally posted by advice for robots: Huh. I have to take Martin in small doses precisely because there is so much action and no punches are pulled. I read him wincing every paragraph, waiting to get blindsided again. It's a world of monsters that can attack at any moment.
Sanderson has more faith in humanity, I think.
Hunger Games--loved the first one, was OK with the second, and finished the third only after two tries and some prodding. I felt she did her best writing in the first book when the idea was fresh, and struggled over the next two books with what was left--a weak love triangle.
Edit: Hey, 5,000!
A lot of action happens in the story. Unfortunately, it is left out of the books.
A Song of Fire and Ice SPOILERS:
. . . . . . . . . How many cities were attacked? Exactly how many of the battles were actually followed by a participant?
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I have read the first of the Mistborn trilogy, Elantris, and the Gathering Storm. I feel that while he might not be the best author ever he is definatly a really good read and one of the best Fantasy authors I have read in a while.
Definatly one of the best newish authors who is still putting out a lot of work. Looking forward to reading the rest of his work. Super excited for Towers of Midnight only a month to go!
As far as comparing him to Robert Jordan I feel that while he is not the same author he definatly does the series justice.
*SPOILER FOR WOT* Plus I feel that while Jordan kept the pacing in his early works the last three or four books dragged horribly. When we are told that the split tower is going to war and Perrin is going after his wife in like book 7 and still nothing has happened by book 11 I at least was getting very frustrated with the series. Not to mention Rand just flitting around for like a book and a half with no real purpose...
I for one am glad that things are getting wrapped up finally.
Edit: The pacing seems a lot more natural on the audio series for WOT. Good voice actors and I really enjoyed it. Would recomend it to anyone.
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Have you tried listening to the abridged WOT books? I tried listening to it with my wife (after I'd read all of the current books in the series), and even I was confused.
You just can't chop up a 700 page book into an eight hour listen.
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quote:Originally posted by advice for robots: Huh. I have to take Martin in small doses precisely because there is so much action and no punches are pulled. I read him wincing every paragraph, waiting to get blindsided again. It's a world of monsters that can attack at any moment.
Sanderson has more faith in humanity, I think.
Hunger Games--loved the first one, was OK with the second, and finished the third only after two tries and some prodding. I felt she did her best writing in the first book when the idea was fresh, and struggled over the next two books with what was left--a weak love triangle.
Edit: Hey, 5,000!
A lot of action happens in the story. Unfortunately, it is left out of the books.
A Song of Fire and Ice SPOILERS:
. . . . . . . . . How many cities were attacked? Exactly how many of the battles were actually followed by a participant?
MORE SPOILERS . . . . . . . . . . . . . . If every single battle and siege were recounted in the books, 1) they would be 2,000 pages apiece and 2) the plot would get bogged down horribly. I think GRRM uses big battles like most other authors--as big transitions or climaxes. Stannis' attack on King's Landing at the end of Clash of Kings was a pretty large-scale battle, as I recall. It wasn't told from a general's perspective but we got a pretty good picture of what was going on and the stakes involved. There's the Red Wedding at the Walder's to look forward to. You do hear about many battles and various fights that happened off the stage, but my impression is that GRRM is using them more like chess pieces to advance the plot. Meanwhile, there's plenty of action.
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Have you tried listening to the abridged WOT books? I tried listening to it with my wife (after I'd read all of the current books in the series), and even I was confused.
You just can't chop up a 700 page book into an eight hour listen.
No I hate listening to anything abridged so I was speaking of the unabridged version.
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Final bump of the year! Last chance to complete your lists and/or chat about books! Come one and all!
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I drink for a Reason - David Cross The Greatest Show on Earth - Richard Dawkins Endymion - Dan Simmons The Engine of Reason - Paul Churchland The Rise of Endymion - Dan Simmons Blindsight - Peter Watts Sex, Drugs, and Cocoa Puffs - Chuck Klosterman Stranger in a Strange Land - Robert Heinlein The Blank Slate - Steven Pinker Eating Animals - Jonathan Safran Foer The Astonishing Hypothesis - Francis Crick Sweet Dreams: Philosophical Obstacles to a Science of Consciousness - Dan Dennett Justice: What's the right thing to do? - Michael Sandel The China Study – Thomas Campbell The Handmaid’s Tale - Margaret Atwood Ethics for the New Millennium – Dalai Lama Animal Farm – George Orwell 1984 – George Orwell Science Fiction and Philosophy – Susan Schneider Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas – Hunter S. Thompson The Ego Tunnel – Thomas Metzinger Kinds of Minds – Dan Dennett Brave New World – Aldous Huxley Why People Believe Weird Things – Michael Shermer Foundation’s Edge – Isaac Asimov Foundation and Earth – Isaac Asimov The Golden Compass – Philip Pullman The Subtle Knife – Philip Pullman The Amber Sypglass – Philip Pullman The Blackwell Companion to Consciousness – Susan Schneider
I'm currently reading Dirk Gently's Holistic Detective Agency. It's been roughly 15 years since I read this book and though I always remember loving it, I'm happy to report it's still a simply marvelous book. It seems impossible to have something so smart and so funny exist in one package, and yet it does.
My other favorite books this year were Blindsight and Justice: What's the Right Thing to Do?. The links go to my goodreads reviews of the books. They're the two books I read that I can't wait to reread. If you're into philosophy and consciousness Dan Dennett's Kinds of Minds and Metzinger's Ego Tunnel were also fantastic.
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Passage at Arms -- Glen Cook Midnight Tides (Malazan #5) -- Steven Erikson Distress -- Greg Egan The Many Deaths of the Black Company -- Glen Cook The Company -- KJ Parker Jhegaala (Vlad Taltos #11) -- Steven Brust The Praxis (Dread Empire's Fall #1) -- Walter Jon Williams The Sundering (Dread Empire's Fall #2) -- Walter Jon Williams Conventions of War (Dread Empire's Fall #3) -- Walter Jon Williams Singularity Sky -- Charles Stross The Bonehunters (Malazan #6) -- Steven Erikson The Machinery of Light (Autumn Rain #3) -- David J Williams Quarantine -- Greg Egan Incandescence -- Greg Egan Reaper's Gale (Malazan #7) -- Steven Erikson
Pretty narrow range this year -- basically either gritty fantasy or gritty SF, aside from a bit of quirkiness in Egan and Stross. Also, some pretty fat books, especially the Malazan books. I'm reading #8, Toll the Hounds, right now, and I got #9, Dust of Dreams, for Christmas. The final book comes out in early 2011, so I'll wrap up the series in 2011.
Reaper's Gale was great and might be my favourite of the year, since I didn't love the last few Black Company books quite as much as I loved the first three. A few long-running arcs concluded very well in Reaper's Gale, and it packed an emotional wallop.
The Company is also a strong contender, but I found some elements of the resolution a little pat. I'm definitely eager to read more Parker, though, she's definitely my favourite discovery of the year. I've got her Engineer trilogy, so I'll read that in 2011.
I've also become a Greg Egan fan this year. He writes very good if slightly quirky hard SF. Distress was probably my favourite of his from the year, but Incandescence is very close behind -- how he makes the derivation of general relativity from first principles by an alien race as riveting as any action scenes I've ever read is beyond me, but it's brilliant. I've got his latest, Zendegi, and I'll be reading that in 2011.
Aside from authors I read in 2010, I'm dying to read more Peter Watts, but there's no sign of the last part of his Rifters trilogy being reprinted anytime soon. I might have to cave in and get it from his website (he's put everything up free under Creative Commons at rifters.org). I'm also desperate for book 2 of R. Scott Bakker's second trilogy, The Aspect-Emperor, which is supposedly going to be titled The White-Luck Warrior. I read The Judging Eye when it came out in 2009 and was completely blown away. It might still be my favourite read of the last two years, but you've got to read his first trilogy, The Prince of Nothing, first.
I'm hoping to see another book in Glen Cook's Instrumentalities of the Night series, too. It isn't on the level of the Black Company, but it's pretty good and it's more Cook, which I'm always happy to read.
I've also got Guy Gavriel Kay's latest, Under Heaven, and I'll read that next year too. It's been a long, long time since I've read any Kay -- I skipped his previous book, Ysabel, because I'm not really into fantasy set on Earth, so I'm curious to see if I still enjoy his work as much as I used to. Five years ago he was probably my favourite writer.
So next year will ideally be more of the same -- Erikson, Parker, Egan, and hopefully Cook, Watts and Bakker. Plus Kay.
Oh! Another book I'll be picking up next year is Leviathan Wakes, by James S. A. Corey -- the pen name of Slash the Berzerker and Daniel Abraham when they collaborate. Posts: 10886 | Registered: Feb 2000
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