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I don't give to craps about you or your opinions on anything, and I just wish you would go away. Failing that, I wish you would reform yourself in any regard as a poster or as a human being.
It's "apoplectic" by the way, epilepsy is a neurological disorder.
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I understand where you're coming from Orincoro. The only thing is that I agree with him. Fortunately, I still enjoyed the film despite its shortcomings.
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Wingracer, this person has a long history of trolling this forum- I doubt he actually wrote that, but you never know.
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I routinely post things here that I also post elsewhere, because I'm curious how people here will react to them in addition to others, and I see no particular reason to rephrase it. Why is this a big deal?
Posts: 4136 | Registered: Aug 2008
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quote:Originally posted by Raymond Arnold: I routinely post things here that I also post elsewhere, because I'm curious how people here will react to them in addition to others, and I see no particular reason to rephrase it. Why is this a big deal?
It isn't. Orincoro is just interested in engaging in a flame war as his last post indicates.
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I understand Orincoro but I just don't have anything against what he posted here so I'm not going to jump down his throat. Now one of the other threads he's posting on, I have my popcorn ready. That could be fun to watch, haha.
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Christopher Nolan keeps going around announcing that he was working on this screenplay for ten years, which is funny considering how inept it is. Ellen Page's entire character functions to just stand there to have things explained to her so the audience gets it, and to serve as a therapist to Leo's character. Why would this person who apparently has things going for her choose to randomly join a band of thieves? Is this when fans of the film start rationalizing away these faults as possible virtues? "Oh you see, all these things are evidence it's all a dream/everything was staged to help Leo overcome his wife issues." Yawn.
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Don't like it? Fine! And I think your reasons for not liking it might be interesting. But when expressed with such scorn, it's hard (for me, anyway) to relate enough to want to engage.
A lot of people like it, and think it was very well done. Some reviews might be so superlative as to reveal some naivete, some interpretations might be wishful, some praise might be undeserved...but in the end, in the general consensus, it's a well made movie. So, to be honest, I interpret your harsh criticism as forced. I assume that you choose to hate it because of the bourgeoisie appeal. :/
What's a movie that you really enjoyed lately?
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quote:Originally posted by Sa'eed: Ellen Page's entire character functions to just stand there to have things explained to her so the audience gets it, and to serve as a therapist to Leo's character. Why would this person who apparently has things going for her choose to randomly join a band of thieves?
Well, for one, she was fascinated by the challenge. How perfect a maze can she design? Second, the place is flat out awesome. How could the small child part of you not want to control a dream world where you can do anything? And third, she's Ariadne. I'm pretty sure she's entirely a dream construct - though if she's part of Cobb or Mal's subconcious, I'm still unsure on.
But if you don't enjoy taking the movie apart trying to decide what was real and what was dream, I can see where the movie was just ok. Leaving you the question was kind of the point.
Posts: 2283 | Registered: Dec 2003
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I thought the film was a fun, well-made cerebral exercise but emotionally frigid for everyone but Cobb. I suspect Nolan knew it, too, so I give him props for working so hard to inject the emotion SOMEWHERE, so at least it is in the movie.
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If it's all (or mostly) in Cobb's head, it makes sense that he and his wife are the only ones with strong emotions. Those are the only two real people. The rest are aspects of his personality, which he only needs to act as set pieces for the emotional drama he's staging for his own benefit.
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quote:I thought the film was a fun, well-made cerebral exercise but emotionally frigid for everyone but Cobb. I suspect Nolan knew it, too, so I give him props for working so hard to inject the emotion SOMEWHERE, so at least it is in the movie.
:rolf:
I think I pretty much agree with this.
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Sa'eed, it sounds like you were expecting or hoping for a different movie. I'm sorry that your expectations prevented you from enjoying it.
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If it's all (or mostly) in Cobb's head, it makes sense that he and his wife are the only ones with strong emotions. Those are the only two real people. The rest are aspects of his personality, which he only needs to act as set pieces for the emotional drama he's staging for his own benefit.
MightyCow, if the movie was all a dream, then there's really no proof that his wife is real, or ever really existed. In fact, if the entire movie is a dream, Cobb might just be the dream persona of someone completely different, a woman, a small child, anybody!
Just thought it was worth mentioning.
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I thought Fischer's storyline was very emotionally compelling.
On a completely seperate note, Arthur's fight scene in the hotel where the gravity was changing is amazing.
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I have to agree. That fight scene was incredibly inventive. I actually don't think I've seen a battle where the gravity itself was changing, and the characters took advantage of it before.
Posts: 1577 | Registered: Sep 2005
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Just saw this movie tonight, and I loved it.
SPOILERS . . . . . . .
I thought the story was a lot of fun, and it literally kept me on the edge of my seat until the end. I too thought that the movie would end with the top, but, I had no real guess as to what the top would do, either spin, fall, or ambiguously wobble.
What I particularly liked were a lot of the little things. First off, be either coincidence or homage or humor, the song that always played to kick them out of events was "Non, Je Ne Regrette Rien" which was sung by Edith Piaf, who in the movie "La Vie En Rose" was played by Marion Cotillard, who was Leo's wife in this movie. Also, the song means "No, I regret nothing." Considering how much of the movie is tied up in the idea of regret, I found that fitting.
I'm not sure how much I believed was real or fake. I think a lot of the main plot was real, in that, he planted the idea in his wife's head, and that they actually made it out, but she killed herself, so he was forced to leave. However, I don't know if his plot to return was real or not. The thing is, don't we at least in one point in the movie see him spin the top and have it fall over? I remember the scene where he knocks it over when Saito walks into the bathroom, but I know I saw it work at least one other time to prove he wasn't there.
But what makes me think most of the characters were fake was their names and attitudes. First off, Fisher's father seems to almost literally be the Fisher King, or depending on which version of the myth you want to use, his son is. There's a wounded, ailing father who holds the Holy Grail, which in this case is Cobb's ticket back to his family.
Arthur himself is the stalwart warrior. He's steadfast, loyal, honorable, and a bit of a boyscout, which he's made fun of for at several times, which makes him a lot like the real King Arthur.
Then there's Mal, "bad," who for much of the movie plays a negative role for Cobb despite the fact that it's his love for her that causes him so much grief. Though in fairness, I think that's supposed to be Mol and not Mal, but she's French, so I'm not sure. Maybe the pronunciation is more important than the actual spelling.
Her father is also a bit of a Merlin-like figure, for he was the one who first taught Cobb how to control the dream state. I know it's mixing characters and plots a little bit, but Cobb and Mal also die in the deepest dream state, which is a bit like Gwenovere and Arthur in Avalon, a place to hide away and heal from wounds.
Then there's Ariadne, a figure from Greek mythology who, depending on which version you look at, was left in a long slumber and was wedded to a God, and is considered to be a weaving goddess, much like an architect.
So either one of three things is happening with all that. 1. I'm totally off and none of the names and behaviors are references to anything. 2. It was Nolan who wanted the actual characters to be referenced as such. 3. It was Cobb who drew these characters from his own knowledge of these myths and legends because he needed their help in his dream world. I'm not sure where Saito and Eames fit into that theory yet.
At the very least, there's a lot going on here, and none of it is really simple at first glance. I can't wait to get it and check out the behind the scenes stuff.
Edit to add: I just read that Nolan wrote the song into the script before Marion Cotillard joined the cast, and almost pulled it when she joined. He was convinced not to replace it by Hans Zimmer.
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Don't forget that Ariadne, in myth, provided the means for Theseus to find his way out of the labyrinth.
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His totem is a 25 foot high piece of gold, and his "limbo" is a desert in which all the sand molecules are actually mini gold coins.
The gravity changing hotel hallway fight scene? Apparently that was stolen from the Gummi Bears Christmas Special.
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quote:Originally posted by Jake: Don't forget that Ariadne, in myth, provided the means for Theseus to find his way out of the labyrinth.
That's right! I forgot all about Ariadne's string. That's probably the more direct reference. Good call.
Posts: 21898 | Registered: Nov 2004
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quote:Originally posted by Geraine: In a strange twist of events, some people are claiming that Christopher Nolan stole the plot of Inception from (of all things) DUCKTALES!!!!
His totem is a 25 foot high piece of gold, and his "limbo" is a desert in which all the sand molecules are actually mini gold coins.
The gravity changing hotel hallway fight scene? Apparently that was stolen from the Gummi Bears Christmas Special.
You need to be careful about making libelous claims you don't dane to support with evidence. The existence of other stories involving the same mechanisms is not evidence of theft, such claims need to be proved to be credited. I have to chuckle every time someone digs up something like an obscure issue of a comic printed in Norway (after inception had been treated and shopped to studios, btw) and points to the similarities, however glaring, and claims "it's theft!" There are only 6 stories in the world- every else is details. OSC wrote a "shocking" explication of the similarities between Ender's Game and Harry Potter, then immediately dismissed it because the point was that the explication itself frames both stories in exactly the same way. But that's the same thing as what fortune tellers do- making something exactly as general and exactly as specific as it can be to apply to as many things as possible, and remain vaguely credible.
I could write you an explication of the similarities between Inception and Dante's Inferno, and you would swear up and down Nolan "ripped it off," even though most people have never read the thing.
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Absolutely right Orincoro. Also, apparently this comic didn't appear until Dec of 2002 and that was in Norway. Nolan first pitched the movie to the studio earlier in 2002.
I love how often you see two somewhat similar movies come out at about the same time and people always say one is a rip-off of the other, as if movies get made overnight.
quote:Originally posted by Raymond Arnold: Or it's possible Geraine was joking?
Geraine said "other people are claiming" and provided a link so I have no problem with him but the guy that wrote the original article in that link needs a good lesson in plagiarism.
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fair enough, but jumping on Geraine just for linking the damn thing seemed ridiculous to me, especially since he didn't actually say anything to endorse it, just "look at this craziness!"
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I gotcha Raymond. Yeah Orincoro's post was a bit scathing. I imagine his frustration was directed at the author of the article and Lyrhawn as the poster got caught in the crossfire Posts: 891 | Registered: Feb 2010
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My opinion on Inception: Not only was the whole thing a dream, but Mal was right and Cobb did still need to wake up. The whole job was really a job on him. Ariadne earned his trust and found out what it was that he couldn't let go of so that he could move on and come back to reality. And at the end, Saito planted the idea that he needed to return and honor their old agreement—his agreement with Mal to grow old together.
As for the top still spinning or wobbling, I'm not sure it even matters. The top was originally Mal's, and therefore it shouldn't work for anyone but her, right? He's been relying on an unreliable test of reality, and sooner or later he's going to realize it.
Posts: 9945 | Registered: Sep 2002
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Whoever wrote that Crossfire ad should have gotten a lot of money. Not many commercials get that ingrained in the brains of their target audience so that people remember it (fondly even) a decade and a half later.
quote:As for the top still spinning or wobbling, I'm not sure it even matters. The top was originally Mal's, and therefore it shouldn't work for anyone but her, right? He's been relying on an unreliable test of reality, and sooner or later he's going to realize it.
The top doesn't have magic powers. The only reason why other people can't have access to the totem is that they can't know how it works. How it spins and falls, the weight of the dice to know how it throws, or the weight of the rook to see how it falls when tipped over. It's something cannot be replicated or falsified in the dream world when the architect is someone else. Mal is dead, and Cobb has ceased to be an architect, so, if you assume that the entire movie is NOT a dream, then the top should have normal functional properties whenever he uses it.
But here's where it loses me a little bit. If he is in his OWN dream, and he is thus his own architect, he knows the properties of the top, and can lose himself in his own dream. There'd be nothing to stop him.
The fact that it was originally Mal's totem doesn't seem to matter at all given the rules stated for how the totem works.
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