quote:The Tea Party Express' Mark Williams -- fresh off his claim that the NAACP makes "more money off of race than any slave trader, ever" -- took to his personal blog today to offer an at least racist-ish screed calling out the NAACP for continuing to use the word "Colored" in its name. In the post, Williams calls NAACP President Ben Jealous "Tom's Nephew" and ties tea party calls for smaller government to "emancipation" (which, of course, is just steps away from the standard tea party line that Democratic policies amount to "tyranny.") But the central theme centers around, as Williams writes, the "absurdity of a group that calls blacks 'Colored People' hurling charges of racism." (the post is written in the form of a mock letter to President Abraham Lincoln from Jealous):
Again, for the record: this how an official at the Tea Party Express explains how not racist the Tea Party is.
quote:Dear Mr. Lincoln We Coloreds have taken a vote and decided that we don’t cotton to that whole emancipation thing. Freedom means having to work for real, think for ourselves, and take consequences along with the rewards. That is just far too much to ask of us Colored People and we demand that it stop! In fact we held a big meeting and took a vote in Kansas City this week. We voted to condemn a political revival of that old abolitionist spirit called the ‘tea party movement’. The tea party position to “end the bailouts” for example is just silly. Bailouts are just big money welfare and isn’t that what we want all Coloreds to strive for? What kind of racist would want to end big money welfare? What they need to do is start handing the bail outs directly to us coloreds! Of course, the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People is the only responsible party that should be granted the right to disperse the funds. And the ridiculous idea of “reduce[ing] the size and intrusiveness of government.” What kind of massa would ever not want to control my life? As Coloreds we must have somebody care for us otherwise we would be on our own, have to think for ourselves and make decisions! The racist tea parties also demand that the government “stop the out of control spending.” Again, they directly target coloreds. That means we Coloreds would have to compete for jobs like everybody else and that is just not right. Perhaps the most racist point of all in the tea parties is their demand that government “stop raising our taxes.” That is outrageous! How will we coloreds ever get a wide screen TV in every room if non-coloreds get to keep what they earn? Totally racist! The tea party expects coloreds to be productive members of society? Mr. Lincoln, you were the greatest racist ever. We had a great gig. Three squares, room and board, all our decisions made by the massa in the house. Please repeal the 13th and 14th Amendments and let us get back to where we belong. Sincerely Precious Ben Jealous, Tom’s Nephew NAACP Head Colored Person
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yes good job tea party! you have really shown me how not racist you are!!! more exclamation points!!!!!!
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This chap is so far up his own proverbial, he's almost seeing daylight.
Maybe he'd be calmer and more rational if someone sat him down and gave him a nice cup of... oh, wait.
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quote:Originally posted by BlackBlade: I'm not a huge fan of the NAACP these days, but Williams just made a huge mistake.
I'm not sure whose mind this will change.
--j_k
I don't think it will really change minds, it will just give talking heads a chance to dredge up more needless anger and indignation from both sides. I did agree with some of the NAACP's assessment of the Tea Party movement. That they are not inherently racist, but there are racists among them. I've heard many of my classmates* complain about some of the same things Williams is clearly complaining about, without being racist about it.
Williams criticism that the NAACP makes money off racism, didn't seem all off target, until he used the plantation owner comparison. Then he went home apparently and vented so now we get to really see what he's all about.
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Keep in mind that this is the same bloke who has more recently devoted much of his attention to trying to stop the mosque from being built near ground zero, since he exclaims that it will be used for "terrorists to worship their monkey god"
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This particular line actually surprised me, because it was so revealing: "How will we coloreds ever get a wide screen TV in every room if non-coloreds get to keep what they earn?"
I'd bet ten bucks he could read that three times and not figure out what it says about his true feelings on the subject.
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They're an old organization. The way this tea person uses it though... Where do I even start? is it worth starting?
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Syn... he's intentionally using it in that way to illustrate how... ugh, you know what, nevermind. It's not even worth it. I should have stayed out of this thread just based on the title alone.
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quote:Originally posted by jebus202: Pretty much every English-speaking person in the world save those from the US, actually.
I bet we outnumber the population of all other English speaking countries combined. I must look this up.
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That's possible, in terms of first-language English speakers, but the spread of UK English, especially in India, as a secondary language, probably pushes it above US English.
But either way, it doesn't really matter which one is more widespread, I was teasing AchillesHeel for saying it wasn't a relevant spelling, when it clearly is. Posts: 3564 | Registered: Sep 2001
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Jebus: How many of those Indians who speak English actually know how to write as well? It seems possible a sizable chunk would be able to speak but be unable to write. Further, I would be surprised if English classes in India still teach Queen's English these days.
Also Mainland China favors American English, so if it ever really takes hold we'll definitely be ahead.
In any case I like the spelling for colour.
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quote:Who... EVEN USES THE TERM COLOURED THESE DAYS!!!
The NAACP. That's actually part of the "joke."
Who spells color the Btitish way anymore? I find that to be more surprising in all honesty.
British people, Canadians. People in Australia, and weird people like me who think that colour looks better than color and that centre looks weird but cheque is hilarious.
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...But "tyre" kind of pisses me off. That's just silly.
I don't know that the tea party is "inherently" racist as a movement, but there are certainly a non-trivial number of people harboring racist sentiments in it, and the willingness to put "populism" (i.e. hey, look, we can rally large numbers of people) over holding those people to any sort of standards of decent behavior is... telling.
Now Williams just got kicked out of the "official" TP tent for his little screed. But he's a big fat red flag; of course the powers in charge have to attend to how he makes the organization look. The question is if they're willing to do a damn thing about the frothing and seething masses at the rallies.
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My only concession to the queen's english is the pronounciation of "herb" and only because of Eddie Izzards poignant example that there is in fact "a ****ing h in it" but that aside I refer to the American dialect in all matters concerning the english language. It could be worse, imagine people defending the written and audio characteristics of the Yorkshire dialect... you wouldnt even understand of enough of what they said or wrote to make a retort.
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Samprimary: Not only did he say that terrorists worship a monkey god, he had the gall to "apologize" for it by saying:
quote: I was wrong and that was offensive. I owe an apology to millions of Hindus who worship Lord Hanuman, an actual Monkey God. Hanuman is worshiped as a symbol of perseverance, strength and devotion. He is known as a destroyer of evil and to inspire and liberate. Those are hardly the traits of whatever the Hell (literally) it is that terrorists worship and worthy of my respect and admiration not ridicule."
"So, again, to my Hindu friends, I offer my sincerest apologies for my horrible lapse and my insensitivity. It was unintentional, inexplicably ignorant and I am ashamed at my offense toward you."
Which is pretty tasteless for an apology.
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quote:Mark Williams, a California radio host who is leading protests in New York against a proposed mosque near Ground Zero and has drawn Sarah Palin to his rallies, had previously called the President an "Indonesian Muslim turned welfare thug" and said Muslims were "animals" who worship "a monkey god."
But when he posted a satirical letter this week from "the Colored People" to President Lincoln about how little they want to work, that apparently crossed the line - especially after the NAACP called on Tea Party leaders to oust racists from their ranks.
"We have expelled Tea Party Express and Mark Williams from the National Tea Party Federation because of the letter that he wrote," federation spokesman David Webb said on CBS's "Face the Nation."
In a press release, the National Tea Party Federation says it ordered the Tea Party Express to kick Williams out and say so "prominently" on their Website.
"They have no intention of taking the action we required," said federation spokeswoman Christina Botteri. "Therefore, effective immediately the National Tea Party Federation is expelling Tea Party Express from the ranks of our membership."
The federation says it represents 85 groups and more than a million activists.
Williams has had a rocky relationship with other Tea Party leaders, many of whom refuse to deal with him, but his group has more money and clout than most.
He stepped down as chairman of the Tea Party Express last month to concentrate on leading protests against the Lower Manhattan mosque, but remains a spokesman and chief public face of the group.
The Tea Party Express is one of the most influential in the conservative grassroots movement. It has reportedly raised $2.3 million this year alone and spent substantial sums to help elect Sen. Scott Brown in Massachusetts, as well as boosting once-unknown Sharron Angle in Nevada.
The group has organized three cross-country bus tours to oppose Obama administration initiatives. In March, it held a rally of 8,000 people in Searchlight, Nev. that featured a rare Palin speech.
I love so much about this article, least of all the way it makes it a point to reference multiple times the fact that Sarah Palin has been in with this dude.
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He's a pretty tasteless guy, seemingly. Especially since Lord Hanuman is not even monkey-shaped. More proto-humanoid, which would seem to support evolution, oddly.
As for the spelling, I wish Webster or whoever had actually gone further and invented a proper phonetic relationship between letters and sounds in English.
In Spanish, most words are spelt as they are pronounced, which makes it much simpler for children (even those with dyslexia) to learn to read quickly and well. If someone had overhauled English like this, I think the whole world would be spelling the US way, including the UK. It would have been a pretty complicated process, and we might have needed a couple more letters, but it would have been awesome.
But instead, they didn't even make the double L rule consistent, and left a bunch of silent letters in place. Such a wasted opportunity.
Now back to the tea hating racist...
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honestly everything that's gone on here is sort of like an elegant confirmation about all the musings i have had about what makes the tea party ultimately beneficial for liberals and bad for the G.O.P. in the long run, chief among them the undercurrents of racism, the insane leadership, and the factional disagreements and extremism. Here we have the first breakout major divide in the tea party and it has been facilitated by an embarrassment. What happens now? More factional divides? Controversy over who 'owns' or can 'direct' the tea party label? A dissolving of the TPE? Slow decline due to the abandonment of one of the tea party's biggest grassroots draws? Time will tell!
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Between this and the disagreements on defense spending between folks like Ron Paul and Sarah Palin, some manner of schism seems likely in the near future.
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quote:Originally posted by Sterling: Between this and the disagreements on defense spending between folks like Ron Paul and Sarah Palin, some manner of schism seems likely in the near future.
And if we would just scrap "first past the post" primaries, and otherwise destroy the apparatus that supports two parties, these schisms would be the natural product of democracy, and would create third, fourth, fifth parties. It'd be harder to get things done, but it would ensure that groups focus, instead of trying to not take a real stand on anything while acting like you support everybody.
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quote:Originally posted by Sterling: Between this and the disagreements on defense spending between folks like Ron Paul and Sarah Palin, some manner of schism seems likely in the near future.
And if we would just scrap "first past the post" primaries, and otherwise destroy the apparatus that supports two parties, these schisms would be the natural product of democracy, and would create third, fourth, fifth parties. It'd be harder to get things done, but it would ensure that groups focus, instead of trying to not take a real stand on anything while acting like you support everybody.
Sounds good to me.
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I think its sad that some of you read some quotes by someone from the Tea Party and then jump to the conclusion that the Tea Party movement as a whole is racist.
There may be some racist people in it and some nut jobs that shoot off their mouths without thinking, but that doesn't make the movement as a whole racist.
The Tea Party Express is NOT the Tea Party Federation, though they have worked together on many events. The Tea Party Express is a branch of the Republican Party. The Tea Party Federation is a different entity.
Goodness, how you can realistically condemn an entire movement based on a few people?
Should we condemn the democratic party because Hillary Clinton called someone an "F-ing Jew B@stard!" ? Or Joe Biden for saying that "You can't run a 7-11 or Dunkin Donuts unless you have a slight Indian accent?"
How about people calling a black member of the Tea Party an "Uncle Tom" and a "Negro" on camera by people wearing SEIU shirts? The NAACP came out in may and actually AGREED to the statements, saying that since the man was a supporter of the Tea Party he was an Uncle Tom.
So should we condemn the NAACP or the Democratic Party for what a few of their members have said? Hell no! The actions of a few does represent the party or movement as a whole.
So you can go ahead and condemn the Tea Party movement, but you damn well better condemn every other political movement and party as well. Democrats, Republicans, The NAACP, The SEIU, The Tea Party, and pretty much every other political group is guilty of racist comments by some of their members.
I need to say that I've never been to a Tea Party event and never will. I'm not into rallys because it makes me feel like a sheep. I won't contribute to any political group. I'll vote based on research and whether or not I agree with the candidates views. I don't condemn those who do though, no matter what the group. I think the work the Tea Party, the NAACP, SEIU, and other groups do is good because it gets people involved in politics and our country. If more people vote due to these groups, I'm all for them.
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The Tea Party is the first truly grass movements in a very long time. It is, as far as I can tell, the first major conservative grass roots movements that actively demonstrate in absolute decades. There have been many, but they've mostly been liberal.
No wonder people are responding like idiots. Citizens organized are powerful, and therefore terrifying. All sorts of slander gets slung at them in order to try and disband and discredit. It's just historically gone in the other direction. That the radical, democratic, activistic movement is conservative this time is making all sorts of people uncomfortable.
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I gotta say, in my case at least, hilarity and amusement by far outweigh uncomfortable and terrified.
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People aren't responding like idiots. They are laughing at a moment of unsurpassed idiocy on the part of the tea party. And no, its not because we are "afraid", katharina.
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quote:Originally posted by katharina: The Tea Party is the first truly grass movements in a very long time. It is, as far as I can tell, the first major conservative grass roots movements that actively demonstrate in absolute decades. There have been many, but they've mostly been liberal.
No wonder people are responding like idiots. Citizens organized are powerful, and therefore terrifying. All sorts of slander gets slung at them in order to try and disband and discredit. It's just historically gone in the other direction. That the radical, democratic, activistic movement is conservative this time is making all sorts of people uncomfortable.
You did this before.
quote:Originally posted by Samprimary:
quote:Originally posted by katharina: I believe that innocent until proven guilty applies to everyone. Even people who part of a movement attractive enough to topple your favorite political candidates.
I think that's the source of the slurs - fear.
The tea party is really a "movement attractive enough to split the vote of my least favorite political candidates" and a fearful, emotionally-driven movement that is continuing the gradual reduction of conservative electability by punishing moderacy in the G.O.P.
It's a comforting implication of motive for you to use, but I don't think nearly anyone here actively fears the tea party.
I'm sure it's a very comforting interpretation to default to — "it must be because they're scared of the tea party!" — but it's just as wrong now as the last time you took shelter behind the idea. The idiot response here belongs to the Tea Party Express.
And no, I'm still not scared of the tea party when practically everything they do is only to my benefit in the long term. I enjoy them, and I laugh at them, and I hope they stick around for a long, long time.
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quote:Originally posted by Geraine: I think its sad that some of you read some quotes by someone from the Tea Party and then jump to the conclusion that the Tea Party movement as a whole is racist.
Close. The NAACP was actually cordial in not calling the tea-party racist, but rather asking tea partiers to acknowlege there being an obviously racist element within the party that they should perhaps disassociate themselves from.
So Mark William's little screed in response was helpfully telling. So too was the Tea Party Express' refusal to remove him.
quote:There may be some racist people in it and some nut jobs that shoot off their mouths without thinking, but that doesn't make the movement as a whole racist.
The personal standard for what makes a 'movement as a whole racist' is so fuzzy and subjective that I wouldn't even bother to address this one. People could easily say that the Know-Nothings weren't a movement that was 'as a whole' racist. I could set the goalposts wherever I wanted. The fact remains that the tea party has an embarrassing, slowly earned association with racism, and long after people tried to assure me there wasn't, the movement has experienced its most profound schism and humbling at the hands of a racist who was allowed to continue sitting at the top of one of the tea party's most ingrained and successful "grassroots" programs despite having in the past called muslims animals who worship a monkey god.
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I actively fear the Tea Party. I am not afraid that that they will "topple" my favourite politicians (though after we elected President Bush a second time my faith in the reasonableness of the electorate was shaken). I am afraid that they will assassinate my favourite politicians. That the hatred they foster will inspire some element in that group to make good on their not-even-veiled threats of violence and revolution.
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I am relatively fearful that while the Tea Party may in the long run be good for America, the damage they might conceivable accomplish in the near future (say, getting Palin elected in 2012) is enough to have me quaking ever so slightly in my boots.
I used to think Bush would be "good for America, in the long term." That was in 2002. I was defining long term as "2004." That certainly did not work out for me.
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Well, y'know, before the Tea Party there was the staggeringly grass-roots-supported Obama campaign, Katharina.
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Again, I will reiterate that Sarah Palin has virtually no chance of winning a presidential election. Even if Obama were bottoming out in the approval polls come 2012, she would influence the moderate voters too dramatically in his favor.
The odds of her even running are slim. The whole assembly of straw polls from summer of '09 to the present have showed that it would be an extremely improbable gamble that she would even win the Republican primary.
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I really really want to believe that. If you can cite som really compelling evidence I may change my mind, but in 2003 I wouldn't have considered the possibility that Bush could win again either.
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quote:Originally posted by Geraine: I think its sad that some of you read some quotes by someone from the Tea Party and then jump to the conclusion that the Tea Party movement as a whole is racist.
Close. The NAACP was actually cordial in not calling the tea-party racist, but rather asking tea partiers to acknowlege there being an obviously racist element within the party that they should perhaps disassociate themselves from.
So Mark William's little screed in response was helpfully telling. So too was the Tea Party Express' refusal to remove him.
Two different groups. The Tea Party Express is a republican group. The Tea Party Federation is not. The TPF did distance themselves from the Tea Party Express, meaning they did exactly what the NAACP suggested. So what is your point?
quote:
quote:There may be some racist people in it and some nut jobs that shoot off their mouths without thinking, but that doesn't make the movement as a whole racist.
The personal standard for what makes a 'movement as a whole racist' is so fuzzy and subjective that I wouldn't even bother to address this one. People could easily say that the Know-Nothings weren't a movement that was 'as a whole' racist. I could set the goalposts wherever I wanted. The fact remains that the tea party has an embarrassing, slowly earned association with racism, and long after people tried to assure me there wasn't, the movement has experienced its most profound schism and humbling at the hands of a racist who was allowed to continue sitting at the top of one of the tea party's most ingrained and successful "grassroots" programs despite having in the past called muslims animals who worship a monkey god.
[/qb][/quote]
Yet you placed the goalposts yourself and have expressed your belief that the Tea Party is a racist organization, based on what this idiot Marc Williams said.
Since you are so quick to judge an entire political organization based on what one member wrote or said, are you ready to condemn the Democratic Party, the SEIU, the NAACP, Republican Party, and EVERY other political organization as well, based on racist comments their members have made?
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And more than a bit slanderous and insulting. It certainly isn't doing much to dispel the "people responding like idiots" thesis.
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quote:Originally posted by Samprimary: [QUOTE]Originally posted by Geraine: [qb]I think its sad that some of you read some quotes by someone from the Tea Party and then jump to the conclusion that the Tea Party movement as a whole is racist.
Close. The NAACP was actually cordial in not calling the tea-party racist, but rather asking tea partiers to acknowlege there being an obviously racist element within the party that they should perhaps disassociate themselves from.
So Mark William's little screed in response was helpfully telling. So too was the Tea Party Express' refusal to remove him.
Two different groups. The Tea Party Express is a republican group. The Tea Party Federation is not. The TPF did distance themselves from the Tea Party Express, meaning they did exactly what the NAACP suggested. So what is your point?
quote:
quote:There may be some racist people in it and some nut jobs that shoot off their mouths without thinking, but that doesn't make the movement as a whole racist.
The personal standard for what makes a 'movement as a whole racist' is so fuzzy and subjective that I wouldn't even bother to address this one. People could easily say that the Know-Nothings weren't a movement that was 'as a whole' racist. I could set the goalposts wherever I wanted. The fact remains that the tea party has an embarrassing, slowly earned association with racism, and long after people tried to assure me there wasn't, the movement has experienced its most profound schism and humbling at the hands of a racist who was allowed to continue sitting at the top of one of the tea party's most ingrained and successful "grassroots" programs despite having in the past called muslims animals who worship a monkey god.
Yet you placed the goalposts yourself and have expressed your belief that the Tea Party is a racist organization, based on what this idiot Marc Williams said.
Since you are so quick to judge an entire political organization based on what one member wrote or said, are you ready to condemn the Democratic Party, the SEIU, the NAACP, Republican Party, and EVERY other political organization as well, based on racist comments their members have made?
And God help us if Palin were to win in 2012. I don't think she has a shot in hell, but it still scares me. The biggest thing Obama has going for him in 2012 is that I really can't think of one Republican that would put up a good fight. Newt Gingrich perhaps has a chance of getting the nomination, but he'd have trouble in the general election due to the ethics problems he had when he was speaker.
If Bobby Jindal ran against President Obama it would be one of the most energetic and interesting campaigns. The debates would be fun to watch.
Posts: 1937 | Registered: Nov 2006
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quote:Originally posted by katharina: Assassination? Yeah, that's totally reasonable.
And more than a bit slanderous and insulting. [quote][qb]It certainly isn't doing much to dispel the "people responding like idiots" thesis.
That's okay, because you've really done nothing to realistically substantiate it in any way anyway. It's just something you're saying. It's easy, I can do it too: 'no, it's the tea party which is stupid.'
quote:Two different groups. The Tea Party Express is a republican group. The Tea Party Federation is not.
Geraine, the Tea Party Express was part of the national Tea Party movement, even 'officially' as part of the Tea Party Federation. They were part of it when members were waving around those 'niggar' signs. When the leader of the TPE was calling muslims animals who worship a monkey god. It has to come to this before the larger official tea party body acts against them and ends up having to expel the entire group over their unwillingness to fire the man.
quote:Since you are so quick to judge an entire political organization based on what one member wrote or said
HINT: I am not. Any summation I have on whether the Tea Party is inherently racist does not come from the actions of a single man, but when he's the main astroturfer of the republican party for this movement and has been prior to now an integral part of the national movement despite the other things he said that the movement did NOT take action over,
Joe Wierzbicki, coordinator for the Tea Party Express, issued the following statement Monday in response to the Tea Party Federation's announcement Sunday about the Federation's relationship with the Tea Party Express:
"The Tea Party Express with over 400,000 members is by far larger than the Tea Party Federation’s entire membership. Most rank-and-file tea party activists think we’re talking about Star Trek when we try to explain who the “Federation” is. Given the absurdity of the actions by the "Federation," this is quite fitting, since their conduct is alien to our membership. "Groups trying to say who can or can't be 'expelled' from the tea party movement is arrogant and preposterous. Perhaps this explains why so many tea party groups have left the "Federation" during the past few months. Whatever the reason, most tea party activists are focused on taking back their country and the upcoming 2010 elections and not silly power games being played by individuals such as those in the "Federation."
"To add to the absurdity of the "Federation" they have also informed us that our members can't participate in something called their "basecamp" communication network, which makes us think that the individuals involved in the "Federation" spend a bit too much time watching science fiction movies and cartoons. We here at the Tea Party Express prefer a focus that is more grounded in the Constitution and electing tea party conservatives to offices of import in these 2010 elections.
The "Federation" has enabled and empowered the NAACP's racist attacks on the tea party movement, and they should be ashamed of themselves.
"Circular firing squads of groups within the tea party movement attacking one another accomplish nothing, and on this issue the Tea Party Federation is wrong, and has both enabled and empowered the NAACP’s racist attacks on the tea party movement. Which is something they'll realize when they beam themselves back from basecamp."
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