Another funny clip proving that Freeman always has a quick and funny response to an implied insult. The whole interview is great but at the 3:30 mark they start talking about the Hobbit and how he and Cumberbatch are both in the film, and whether one of them got the other cast. "The idea that he got me in the Hobbit makes me wanna kill everyone in this room."
He's so darn sweet and I love when he flips on people like that. Always so funny.
Posts: 1733 | Registered: Apr 2005
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Oh! If you've ever seen him on Nevermind the Buzzcocks (he's been on it twice, I think) he was really funny on that, too. Just seems like the sort of fellow who is very quick on his feet.
Posts: 9293 | Registered: Aug 2000
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Well, I thought that was pretty good. I am sometimes not the most critical person when it comes to things I've already decided I'm going to enjoy, but regardless, I enjoyed it. I definitely hope it comes back (any news on plans for a third series?), if for no other reason than that I'm curious about how he pulled it all off in the end. He certainly couldn't have predicted everything, but I guess it was just contingency upon contingency. But I'll say no more so I don't spoil it for those who didn't get to watch it tonight.
Posts: 2827 | Registered: Jul 2005
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Yeah. I cried. For like the entire final ten minutes.
I thought the episode was amazing but I'm also incredibly biased as I'm pretty sure I'm in love with this show.
Its interesting to note that the unaired pilot features another moment with John looking up at Sherlock on a roof. I remember seeing it and thinking it was funny to have him on the roof with his coat blowing like some sort of superhero but its a cool bookend visually.
I can't believe we have to wait for another series. My plan is to work my way through the entire Sherlock Holmes collection before then, as a way to keep occupied. Besides seeing how he pulled it all off, I'm more interested in how he makes his return.
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This series was much better than the last but the end of the final scene was obviously gonna happen. I'd rather they'd saved it for next series.
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With the guy who is playing Sherlock getting so many major roles, do you guys think the show is going to fade away? It seems like he's going to be too busy to keep making a television show soon at the rate he's going.
Posts: 1324 | Registered: Feb 2011
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No, I think both main actors are extremely committed, at least to one more series. Now, if you're talking about making series four-ten, then perhaps. But I hope they at least decide to make the ending a good ending (though the original stories didn't...just sort of fading away with the really mediocre "The Retired Colourman" being the last)
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The show is getting excellent attention from critics and awards ceremonies, and the ratings are incredible. The BBC signed on for Series 2 and 3 at the same time so I would hope that they'll continue to try and get as many of these future contracts signed as possible. Scheduling-wise, its not just about Freeman and Cumberbatch (the Star Trek casting being the biggest hurdle right now) but most of the creators, writers, and directors are also keeping busy with Doctor Who and other tv shows and movies.
Moffat has expressed a strong interest in adapting some of the stories that have never been filmed before and he has plenty of material to choose from. Everyone seems eager but its incredibly likely that we'll only get a new series every other year rather than regularly.
Posts: 1733 | Registered: Apr 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Shanna: [...]Besides seeing how he pulled it all off[...]
S P O I L E R S
Moriarty has completely forgotten about Molly when mentioning Sherlock's friends. My guess is, like Sherlock, he hadn't realized how important she was to him. Anyway, this leads me to believe she helped him, maybe by injecting something to make him seem to have no pulse when Watson checked. Did you notice how quickly the ambulance arrived after the jump?
Also remember that it was Sherlock who chose the rooftop meeting, so he might have expected something like this. Also, we see part of the fall, then we see him on the ground. Watson's view seems to have been similarly obscured for the last part of the fall, and Sherlock insisted he kept his eyes on him instead of going near the "landing" place. And while Watson is hit by the biker we see a truck drive away.
My bet is there was some air mattress or something similar in that truck, Sherlock fell on it, was quickly injected with something by Molly to slow his pulse, got some fake blood on him, and was dumped from the truck onto the ground.
Of course I might be over-thinking this or there might be a completely different explanation, but this kinda fits.
---
There were some things that weren't solved: why did the girl scream when she saw Sherlock (did Moriarty wear a mask when kidnapping them?); what would have happened if more assassins would have died before the final showdown, who among his friends would have been spared; why did Mycroft not claim Sherlock's body at the morgue.
I think that's it, but I might be forgetting something.
Anyway, I'm very happy that the whole "few programming lines that give access to everything" was a fake. It would have been pretty dumb for it to be presented as true. Sherlock and Mycroft were simply misled by Moriarty.
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I agree with the Molly and truck theory. Sherlock chose the St. Barts roof so it wouldn't have been hard to put everything into place. And his homeless network would have been perfect for fake doctors in the scrubs Molly provided.
And there are other clues left by the show. The episode with Janus cars would have inspired a blood bag of his own blood to leave at the scene. The ball he was bouncing earlier in the episode could have been him thinking through his jump.
From the final shot of Mycroft, I'm still unsure whether he thinks Sherlock is alive or dead. Sherlock is always so against going to his brother for help but this seems like the one time he would. There was also a video posted to John's blog which included a news story about Sherlock's fall but there was never a mention of Moriarty's body being found on the roof. Between Molly and Mycroft, it would have been easy to bury Moriary in Sherlock's place.
As for the girl, they did point out that mercury poisoning affects the mind. Maybe the kidnapper wore a Sherlock mask or his same clothes.
And I think as long as one assassin remained and he target had been John, Sherlock still would have jumped.
I'm alittle curious as to whether Sherlock's behavior on the roof was an act or not. And whether or not he anticipated Moriarty's suicide. It all seemed genuine but its possible that Sherlock had a longer game in mind and he's great at faking when he needs to.
I'm also annoyed that Mycroft and Sherlock fell for the "super key" (or did they? haha.) But I guess if you're brilliant, you can be led to believe some extraordinary things.
There was definitely a vehicle there when Sherlock jumped, and not there by the time John got there, so I think that is key.
As to paramedics getting there quickly... It *was* a hospital he jumped off. I'm just sayin'
As to the girl screaming... what if there was a double? I cringe to even suggest it, but Irene Adler had one -- one that fooled Sherlock, albeit with not-the-face. Possibly two, since there were no details given about how Sherlock fooled Mycroft about her "demise." So, there is precedent in the series. The double is useful to Moriarty for traumatizing the children, but then he's not, so maybe the double was killed. Or maybe Sherlock used Molly to find the double or some suitable corpse. Moriarty was going on and on about The Final Problem, which we were meant to take as a call back to the story in which Sherlock Holmes went over the falls with Moriarty, but in context has to do with Moriarty's boredom and, let's face it, desire to die. (I believe he wanted to die from the start, but since he's not the type to give up, he wanted Sherlock to beat him, to kill him or make it so that he had to die to "win." Which explains his gratitude just before he topped himself.)
Assuming Sherlock had some inkling of this, whatever contingency he had in place would only work if he kept control of the location. There had to be some coordination with his homeless network, but Molly could have helped with that, too.
SH was most definitely playing the angles when he positioned John.
So, whether the truck broke his fall and he had something to stop his pulse or happened to find the corpse of a double to drop out of the truck after breaking his fall (I admit, the latter makes me cringe), it was a plan he had in place, anticipating that Moriarty wanted him dead as well as disgraced.
That said, what a thing to do to John. Logically, his grief would have to be convincing, because presumably the hit would still be on all Sherlock's friends if he showed up alive again, but still. That's why this makes me kind of happy:
I am anxious to see how it plays out, though I might as well get used to disappointment. My kid will be in college before there is a season 3, I bet.
Posts: 9293 | Registered: Aug 2000
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Just came here to admit that I was too weak to stand by my general anti-piracy principles. We torrented it yesterday, and will get started watching probably by this weekend if not sooner. Damn you, BBC, I would happily pay you to let me watch it streaming, but you won't let me because I live in the US. Posts: 3580 | Registered: Aug 2005
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So I'm certainly in no way endorsing this, especially since I haven't used it at all (I'm in the UK right now, so I got to watch it live. And yes, that was me rubbing it in). But... I've heard from some people that if you can get a UK ip assigned then BBC iPlayer will work. The site I've heard recommended for this is something like Expat Shield or something along those lines. I only mention it in case it might be a slightly more moral option than torrent. Don't quote me on this though.
Posts: 2827 | Registered: Jul 2005
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I'll just make myself feel better by buying three or four copies of it when it comes out on DVD here and giving the extras to people I love.
Posts: 3580 | Registered: Aug 2005
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Olivet, that makes me happy as well! Oh how I love the modern Sherlock and John dynamic.
C U T
F O R
S P O I L E R S
The whole double thing is silly though the episode with Irene does set a precedent, and Moffat and company sure do love dropping hints. Apparently, they were conversing on twitter about A) something referenced in the very first episode is important in this final episode and B) they've seen all the online theories and the fans are stilling missing one key piece. Cue an entire fandom freaking out and watching the episode another ten times.
ANYWAY...double-ganger would also explain the little girl freaking out. And it could make a good body replacement. But I wonder when Sherlock would have had a chance to track him down (assuming Moriarty had him executed when the kidnapping was done or something.) And its one thing for Irene to use a double for herself cause the face was bashed in. Sherlock was still pretty recognizable. And yet, maybe we're seeing the scene with Sherlock on the pavement through John's eyes. So maybe it'll only looks like Sherlock because John's head just hit the pavement and he's disoriented from that and the shock.
The camera does show the body landing face down but when the crowd gathers, the body is on its side. So if Sherlock bounced or jumped from the truck, he may have consciously decided to roll. Perhaps pining the one arm under himself would cut off the circulation and hide his pulse?
As for Moriarty, I'd read a post somewhere talking about the overwhelming theme of "identity" in Reichenbach Falls. How John is concerned with preserving Sherlock's reputation, how John will dictate Sherlock's reactions (two halves of one whole), how many of the characters appear in disguise, and most importantly how strongly Moriarty identifies with Sherlock (another example of two halves equally one whole.) It seems like Moriarty is just going to walk off into the devilish sunset after Sherlock kills himself, disappointed that Sherlock didn't live up to his expectations. But when Sherlock turns on him and says "I am you," then its like something changes. Moriarty is certainly sick of living so maybe once he gets what he wants which he thinks means finding his equal in intelligence and with their own heart burned out as well, he is ready to end his own life. He'll die, Sherlock will die, its probably a very lovely idea to Moriarty. Or maybe, if he thinks he's really destroyed Sherlock's heart then Sherlock will let his friends die and will live on as this sort of new Moriarty.
Maybe I'm reading too much into it. I love crazy!Moriarty but it makes his motivations difficult to dissect.
E N D
S P O I L E R S
I'm treating this show more as a book so that the long wait stresses me out less. If I can survive all the years I spent waiting for the Harry Potter books, then this should be easy. I'll do the geeky thing and bury myself in fandom.
EDIT: In other SHERLOCK related news, the world has gone crazy and "I Believe in Sherlock" guerilla art is popping up everywhere. The moron who vandalized St. Barts is a jerk but the other stuff is pretty cool.
posted
From what I heard, someone wrote "I believe in Sherlock" in very tiny writing at the base of one wall of St. Barts, so even that was apparently pretty benign (unless there are photos that prove otherwise).
posted
I thought I'd heard about a stencil but it may have been chalk and already washed off. Or someone was mistakenly reporting the wall as St. Barts.
The CBS think makes me wanna cry. Way to capitalize on the creativity of others, CBS.
S P O I L E R
New theory I heard floating around. One of the chemicals found on the kidnappers shoes (i think it was the vegetation) can be used to create a slower heartbeat. Watery eyes are another side-effect. Moffat said the one big clue everyone was missing was related to something very out-of-character for Sherlock. Personally, I like to believe Sherlock is capable of having emotions (like fear in Baskervilles) but isn't fond of them. But it may be the clue everyone was overlooking while bawling their own eyes out.
The tears were OOC for Sherlock, though he proved in the past that he could turn them on whenever it suited him. But I guess the distance between him and John would have made them unnecessary to sell the suicide bit. * * *S P O I L E R
Posts: 9293 | Registered: Aug 2000
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I have to say, I am weak - I will probably watch the CBS thing and the third Sherlock Holmes film with Downey and Law (despite wanting to scream in fury and boredom after only ten minutes) because I'm a sucker for Holmes.
That being said, I will probably hate both.
I personally have no real theories - the way they resolved the standoff from the first series was nowhere near my own predictions, so I'm just going to say "I'm happy with where they left it for now, and will come back and find out the hows and whys in a year or so."
posted
I will watch it, too, miller. I won't be able NOT to. But, yeah.
GREAT link, too. "Sherlock only comes together when it's told from John's point of view, when his normal, ordinary perspective is allowed to mediate Sherlock's extraordinary one. But the show is too in love with Sherlock to ever let that happen."
That's it, in a nutshell.
Posts: 79 | Registered: Dec 2011
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posted
They've cast Johnny Lee Miller In Elementary. They picked one of just a few people that Benedict Cumberbatch fans wouldn't automatically burn in effigy. Not personally a fan, mind you, but he might not suck.
posted
Its kinda funny that they shared roles in Frankenstein together. I heard he was on Dexter which is probably the only thing I've seen him in, and he didn't make an impression because I have no idea what part he played (IMDB reports it was "Jordan Chase." Yeah, still no impression.)
Personally, he looks more like the Lestrade type. But props for hiring a British actor to play Sherlock Holmes.
However, now I'm wondering what former co-star of Martin Freeman they will approach with the part of John Watson.
Posts: 1733 | Registered: Apr 2005
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quote: props for hiring a British actor to play Sherlock Holmes.
I hope he's actually playing American, though. If he's being British, they'll have to really ramp up the New York setting to make a bigger difference. The BBC team are already talking about suing - so they should try to make the differences obvious.
If I remember correctly, he was originally cast as Aragorn, before they decided he was too young. I always thought that must have sucked, so it's nice that he's getting work.
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Yeah, I assume he'll play it with an American accent. I thought it was nice in keeping with the tradition (like having Hugh Laurie for House.)
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Plus, now with House ending this year, there might be more of an opening for an American Holmes.
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Johnny Lee Miller was spectacular in Frankenstein (though Cumberbatch was better). I doubt he'd be hurting for work even if he hadn't been cast for the American Sherlock.
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In a recent Mentalist episode Jane uses a ball put under the armpit of a guy to cut the blood flow to his wrist. If I remember correctly Sherlock was playing with such a ball earlier, and John checked his wrist for pulse. So there was probably no injection, just that rubber ball.
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Apparently I HAVE to watch this. Amber says.
I guess I'm glad that for whatever inconceivable reason I decided to actually not read much if any of you guys' spoilers. I don't even know how or why I did that. I just usually devour spoilers indiscriminately just because they're text wherever I happen to be treading.
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I actually think that might work. It's certainly... well, different. Also gives the Moffat/Gatiss crew less room to whine about being ripped off.
Posts: 9293 | Registered: Aug 2000
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Yeah, I think I've decided that I'm not happy about the Watson casting. It would have been interesting to gender-swap the entire cast but doing just Watson doesn't make me happy.
However, then they released this tidbit of information:
Breaking with adaptation tradition of using Lestrade and going back to the canon for this character does make me very happy. It gives me hope that there are real ACD fans involved in the creation process. My concern with 'Elementary' is that is will be just as close to Sherlock Holmes as any other show featuring a rude but genius anti-hero. I don't like the idea of yet another show taking the bare minimum from the Holmes mythology and cashing in on the name. While the BBC's Sherlock isn't an exact adaptation, its full of so many references to the ACD canon that it truly feels like a modern update.
I'd be really bored if 'Elementary' was just another cops show where the characters coincidentally have names like Holmes and Watson. There's no mention yet of Joan Watson having any war-time experience or having any aspirations for writing, so I can't say I'm seeing any similarities besides just the surname and medical training.
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Where is the American Sherlock Holmes I was hoping for? It's so boring to transplant him to America but make him British. What's the point? I wanted to see what a real New Yorker Holmes would be like.
There doesn't seem to be much chemistry on display between Holmes and Watson, but it's a very short clipshow. Oh, and she's emotional and he doesn't play well with humans, and she has to keep him off the drugs? We know that. We've seen this exact relationship with these exact characters twice already this year. And why is she female? How does that shake things up? Show me. I'm not getting a Starbuck vibe from this.
As for the other detective - ya, the whole 'OMG he just licked the evidence' schtick, while cute, got old years ago. It's a knock off. I've seen it done better.
The only interesting thing is that Watson's working for Holmes' father, who maybe could have ulterior motives to spy on his son? That's totally my imagination running wild, by the way. But since the idea of Holmes Sr. in a Cancerman-type-conspiracy-ringleader role is actually interesting, I bet that was just a throwaway line.
posted
I watched both seasons last week, for the first time. The series is AMAZING. I particularly loved the updated Holmes/Watson dynamic. Brilliant actors with perfect chemistry, blessed with wonderful writing. It's one of the best on-screen character relationships I've ever seen.
Posts: 273 | Registered: Jul 2009
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Is the second series available in the US yet? My wife still hasn't seen it (I watched it back in January in the UK), and it is absolutely killing me to not be able to talk to her about it.
Posts: 2827 | Registered: Jul 2005
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I think the only mild complaints I would have would be that they overdid Moriarty a bit-he smacked distinctly of Joker, actually, from Dark Knight, in his style of crazy and genius; the other would be the ending with Irene Adler. To my viewing, at least, I wasn't really sure if it was fantasy (or whose, for that matter), but if it were meant to be what actually happened, then it was pretty ridiculous.
The music, the acting, the writing, the mysteries, the relationships, though, man. All are over-the-top excellent. It's especially enjoyable to me and many, I think, for the many many many nods and wordplays on the source material, but even for a Holmes newb I would recommend it to just about anyone.
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I will almost certainly watch the pilot of the Americanized Holmes (haven't watched the trailer). I figure I owe it to him after watching Game of Shadows, heh. And while it's a bit irritating to have such a thorough knock-off and, it sounds like, a dumbed-down sitcom-ized knockoff, I don't think that's new for American treatment of British television. And Liu is fun.
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DrS, it's on Netflix right now, both seasons, and the last episode of the second three airs this weekend on Masterpiece Theater, I believe.
Posts: 17164 | Registered: Jun 2001
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quote:Originally posted by Rakeesh: DrS, it's on Netflix right now, both seasons, and the last episode of the second three airs this weekend on Masterpiece Theater, I believe.
Really? Streaming or DVD's? I just checked streaming and still only saw the first series.
Posts: 2827 | Registered: Jul 2005
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I checked streaming as well and didn't see it either.
I did pre-order the blu-ray which is coming out May 22nd, but I did get an email notification earlier this afternoon saying it had already shipped. And I think my library already has a waitlist going and that's something they don't usually start until they actually have the discs to put on lend.
Posts: 1733 | Registered: Apr 2005
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