posted
That post sounds more like an isolated reaction to me, though. Or I dunno I didnt read the actual blog.
Don't get wrong, **** Cersei. But placing a political puppet the guise of someone you understand to be dead anyway is a pretty boring way to be evil.
Posts: 1407 | Registered: Oct 2008
| IP: Logged |
posted
As an isolated incident? Sure I suppose. But lavished on top of everything else they've specifically done to just that one family? It seems a cruel mockery.
I'll be posting a super-sized post tonight, and then I'll be down to the last 200 pages. After I finish aSoS, there will probably be a two-week or so hiatus between this and aFfC, as I need to actually buy the book, and I need to take a break to study for the GRE.
I have to say, at the moment I'm a little leery of the fourth book, only because I think the really interesting stuff is happening in the north right now, and I know that the fourth book is the southern story lines. I think Jaime and Tyrion are fascinating, but I don't know if I can take a whole book of them with no breaks, especially if Sansa is in the mix.
Posts: 21898 | Registered: Nov 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
Wait, I thought the fourth goes to North. And that would make sense since Crows is in the title and Dragons is in the next, parallel book.
Posts: 1407 | Registered: Oct 2008
| IP: Logged |
posted
I was under the impression that the fourth book deals only with the south, which disappointed a lot of people since most fan favorites were in the north. Also, I thought that the title had less to do with crows as in the beyond-the-wall name for northmen, and had more to do with the fact that crows gather after a battle to feast on the dead.
Dragons I figure is the title of the fifth because Dany won't be in Feast, but she'll return to Westeros in the fifth book.
Posts: 21898 | Registered: Nov 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
I just looked at Wiki and yeah your right. And that's a cool analogy.
I havent read crows, but it's the black sheep of the series for some reason, but my favorite characters are Arya and Tyrion.
Posts: 1407 | Registered: Oct 2008
| IP: Logged |
posted
Annnd after reading for the last three or four hours, I finished.
That was one hell of an ending. I've never seen 900 pages of story so drastically altered with so many turns and surprises by the final 200. I'll have a nice long end of book post up tomorrow.
Posts: 21898 | Registered: Nov 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
Sorry it took me an extra day, but I'm done, and the last post of the book is up.
All my final thoughts are on the blog, but wow. Seriously I'll say it again: that has to be the most eye-popping earth shattering ending to a book I've ever read. I never would have expected that many surprises, answers, new questions, payoffs and new directions in the final 200 pages after such a maddeningly slow pace for the previous 900. Loved every second.
Posts: 21898 | Registered: Nov 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
Okay, so, for the northern characters all I have is speculation, the same as you. After all, we're both caught up to the same place:
Jon: I have no idea what's going to happen. It could go so many ways, and I don't know which one it is. His situation seems... not hopeless, but I can't see anybody getting everything they want out of this situation. A compromise seems incredibly difficult.
Btw, the preview chapter on Martin's site is the first Jon chapter of Dance, currently. It reveals a possibility I hadn't expected. A route that seems so very creepy.
Bran: I believe, based on reading just the first three books, that Coldhands is Benjen Stark as one of the Others.
I'm probably completely wrong. I don't care. It's way too perfect an image for me.
Un-Cat: Heh heh heh. Creepiest thing ever, isn't she? She is so pissed. And yes, that's the nickname I use for her.
Dany: Time for the school of hard governing knocks. She gets to learn how to be a ruler. I really hope she gets good at it. In the back of A Feast for Crows, there's a preview chapter for her. It's chilling, and really good.
Davos: I, too, hope he's okay. I want to see!
Tyrion: That boy's got problems. Seeing Shae on his father's bed, nude except for the necklace of the Hand... ugh. He's been pushed too far. He's been broken. That's what I fear. Killing his father like that... well. Tywin deserved it. He was vile.
But I can see why he was. When Tywin's brother described how he was when he was younger, how he had to rebuild his family after his father's perceived weaknesses and vices... I bet he saw some of those in Tyrion, and hated that. You know, as one of the more minor things he hated.
Tywin's own dickishness is what brought everything down. Jaime is lost, Tyrion killed him, and Cercei... well, Cercei is Cercei. God, Cercei. You're right about what she wants. Power in her own right. But it's Tyrion who has Tywin's talents. Tyrion who has Tywin's clever mind. Cercei... well, she's no Tywin or Tyrion.
So, Tyrion is on the other side. I hope he meets Dany. With Selmy and Tyrion, she'll be golden.
I hope she meets Jon someday! That would be awesome. I hope they end up working together.
Jon Redux: Jon Stark. Jon. Stark. It didn't sink in until Stannis said it. so tempting. I wanted it for him, so much. I wanted him to be Stark, not Snow.
But the situation makes that impossible. And I'm glad he's Lord Jon Snow, 998th Lord Commander of the Night's Watch.
Posts: 1577 | Registered: Sep 2005
| IP: Logged |
posted
Really? I figured with Sam in the north and Arya in Braavos, they wouldn't be covered. I'm glad though.
You know I hadn't considered what would happen if Tyrion met up with Dany. It makes perfect sense in a lot of ways. Tyrion will want revenge against his family and he certainly has the services that Dany needs to run a city. He could offer himself up as the Queen's Hand.
I wanted for Jon to be a Stark as well, in part because he seems the worthiest heir of the name. But not under Stannis' terms. Being named Lord Commander was the only way out for him I think.
As far as Cold Hands, yeah, I like that too. I'll say that in some ways it really doesn't make sense. The Three-Eyed Crow sounds like some ancient force, and Benjen was AT Winterfell when Bran originally fell out of the window and had the dream about the crow. Well, he might have left with Jon at that point, but he hadn't been lost yet. He couldn't have been the one sharing the dream with Bran that led him to wake up, and that sort of activated his powers. So, while I'm sort of okay with Benjen being an ASZ, he can't be the three-eyed crow. But maybe he could be working for the crow. Maybe a combination of crow powers and his own inner Stark power of the First Men caused him to be in a state of limbo. I do like that idea, for so many reasons. It would seem incredible and unbelievable if Ben turned up alive now. Not with wilding hordes and so many ASZs prowling around. But it seems like Benjen alone could have a lot of information necessary to resolve a couple plots, so it'd be cool if he was around in any form.
Given that the state of the world is fundamentally broken, and that Stannis is a bit of a crackpot, I could totally see the Starks (what's left of them) jumping ship and joining with Dany to throw the Lannisters out of King's Landing. I could see her rejecting that help, but I wonder if Selmy wouldn't talk her into accepting it. After all, it was Robert Baratheon and the Lannisters who killed her family. And the Starks certainly know that feeling.
Posts: 21898 | Registered: Nov 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
One thought: Benjen isn't the only character left who probably has a lot of important backstory on the Starks (most specifically Jon's parentage.) There's one more person who could provide similar revelations.
posted
Without telling me what, can someone tell me if we find out more about Howland Reed in general in Feast? I feel like people are making a lot of assumptions about him and that we didn't really get all that much information about him out of the first three books.
I don't want to know what info, just if it exists. Otherwise, why are we making all these assumptions about what Reed might know?
Posts: 21898 | Registered: Nov 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
I'm really going to have to reread all three books now, or at least, just read the Eddard chapters in the first book. I really don't remember all this stuff about Howland. I probably discarded it while I was reading because I didn't realize the significance.
I'm starting to think that I should blog about the second read through just to point out all the stuff I missed the first time through.
Posts: 21898 | Registered: Nov 2004
| IP: Logged |
And Xavier is correct. Howland was the only one, other than Ned, to survive the battle with the Kingsguard. So he was presumably there when Lyanna died, and possibly present when Ned made his unexplained oath to her.
Posts: 3580 | Registered: Aug 2005
| IP: Logged |
posted
I think so long as Meera and Jojen are in the picture, we have a chance to get some answers. I hope we don't have to wait until Winds of Winter though.
Posts: 21898 | Registered: Nov 2004
| IP: Logged |
It's pretty much conclusive, in my mind and many others.
Thanks for the link. That's incredibly well put together, and I'm convinced enough to the point where it if ISN'T Lyanna/Rhaegar, it's going to be a let down.
Posts: 21898 | Registered: Nov 2004
| IP: Logged |
It's definitely stronger than my conviction that Coldhands is Benjen, anyway.
Anyway, Lyr, I doubt you'll have to wait that long. Dance will have them in it. I cannot believe there won't be at least more hints. And Martin has said that the truth of Jon's parentage will come out.
Posts: 1577 | Registered: Sep 2005
| IP: Logged |
posted
I think we just WANT Coldhands to be Ben, there's no proof though. I think most of that desire is the pretty unceremonious way in which he was bumped off. We get a hint that he's probably both cool and would make a great role model for Jon moving forward. Then poof!
I have a gut feeling that we won't have to wait much longer for Dance, so I think I got into this just in time. Looking at his most recent posts about the book, he has said that it can't be any more than another 250 pages long or the publisher will axe it, he's already trading chapters around with Winds of Winter, it's already a monstrously huge book on par with ASoS. And it's been five years, which is about how long it took him to write Feast.
I wouldn't even be surprised if he was actually either really close to, or already done with it, and they want to publish it to coincide with the HBO series coming out in the Spring of 2011.
Posts: 21898 | Registered: Nov 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
Yeah, Lyr. You're right. It's almost certainly just wish-fulfillment, and also something about the Conservation of Detail, a rule they smashed into me in school. Sadly, this book is big enough that my desires don't need to become reality. Benjen could have died back then, and his purpose would be totally fulfilled.
---
As for Martin, he still talks about the Meereenese knot. In other words, Dany doing her thing in Meereen, and the other characters who will be there, and figuring out how the events can best be told.
I hope he'll figure it out soon. I hope he can finish this darned book for a 2011 release date. Makes sense to me! I really want to read this thing, darn it.
Posts: 1577 | Registered: Sep 2005
| IP: Logged |
I think the Christmas hope sounds a little unrealistic, given how long it takes him to decide that something is truly finished, but man that sure would be awesome.
Posts: 3580 | Registered: Aug 2005
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Dan_Frank: Five chapters left to go!
I think the Christmas hope sounds a little unrealistic, given how long it takes him to decide that something is truly finished, but man that sure would be awesome.
Excellent! Wow now I'm even more confident in my prediction! 2011 will be a year of excellent awesomeness. Was Feast released in hardcover first? I'm certainly going to shell out for it rather than wait even longer for the paperback, but I'm just curious.
Posts: 21898 | Registered: Nov 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
Weird. I know it isn't quite as good as A Storm of Swords, but I found Crows to be really interesting.
Besides... most of my favorite characters will actually be in Dragon, as opposed to Crows, who had mostly B-listers.
Posts: 1577 | Registered: Sep 2005
| IP: Logged |
posted
There were parts I liked, don't get me wrong. I just think the book as a whole is seriously flawed. I go into it a bit on my ASOIAF thread, and would be willing to discuss it more there or in a new thread.
(Or just wait until Lyrhawn starts on it)
Posts: 5656 | Registered: Oct 1999
| IP: Logged |
posted
I've heard a lot of complaints about ASOIAF, but I'm not sure I've ever heard anyone say it was boring. I don't think I've ever read a book where more stuff happens in fewer pages than AGOT. World changing events at that.
I guess I'd need to know what kinds of stuff you are interested in reading about to answer that.
Edit: I can see someone finding it boring if they didn't care about any of the characters. Was that the problem?
Posts: 5656 | Registered: Oct 1999
| IP: Logged |
posted
LOL....I am about half way though Clash of Kings, because I want to reread the whole saga cover to cover.
I love reading your blog still, and that probably helped me actually reread the series now. I had been meaning to for a while. Posts: 15082 | Registered: Jul 2001
| IP: Logged |
posted
I think either when Dance or the HBO series comes out, I'm going to read them over again. I already think that I'm going to key in on a lot of things that I didn't the first time. It's just that kind of series. You can only pick up on so much foreshadowing, and the rest you have to go back and figure out after he's already done the big reveal.
The blog will recommence next Thursday, most likely, after I've taken the GRE, written two papers, read two other books and a short story, and hopefully, got drunk the night of the GRE test in either celebration or as a tonic for my misery.
Posts: 21898 | Registered: Nov 2004
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Xavier: I've heard a lot of complaints about ASOIAF, but I'm not sure I've ever heard anyone say it was boring. I don't think I've ever read a book where more stuff happens in fewer pages than AGOT. World changing events at that.
I guess I'd need to know what kinds of stuff you are interested in reading about to answer that.
Edit: I can see someone finding it boring if they didn't care about any of the characters. Was that the problem?
That's what I find odd. I enjoy Dickens (Copperfield was fantastic!), Fitzgerald, Brandon Sanderson, and Robert Jordan. So I'm used to long-winded-ness.
The characters . . . are melancholy. Most of them are archetypes, and the intrigues are very slow. Very little happens overall. The action seems puposefully omitted, while Martin seems to linger a little long on sexuality.
Arya, Daenerys, Jon, and Tyrion are the only interesting characters; unfortunately, they are often given very little to do. There's a lot of talking, but there's virtually no character growth (at least in the first two books). Sure, Arya and Jon have "gained a few levels", so to speak, but that's it.
There have been a handful of excellent showpieces: the birth of the dragons, the beheading, the shadow-murder. Unfortunately, they are much too few and far between.
I have the patience to read a long book. Ultimately, however, these books are twice as long as they need to be. There's some really good stuff here . . . but just like Robert Jordan's later novels, the author seems far too indulgent.
I am reading Sanderson's new book, the Way of Kings. It's over a thousand pages with little action, and it's fantastic. I don't feel a real urge to continue with Martin's series. I am really looking forward to the television series, however. Hopefully it'll be as well put together as True Blood. And hopefully they can include some of the warfare that's mostly going on in the background of the books.
Posts: 688 | Registered: Nov 2008
| IP: Logged |
posted
Eh. Not all books are for everyone. If Herbley doesn't like it, then that's okay.
We like it. And isn't that what matters? *winks*
As to Xavier: You know, a new thread would be nice for those things you were mentioning. I hadn't seen what you said until now! I do want to hear what you felt were the flaws in Feast.
And also, food for thought: Do you think the reason Martin went back and essentially started over on Dance, even though it was technically almost done when Feast was, was because he felt it was flawed in the same way?
Posts: 1577 | Registered: Sep 2005
| IP: Logged |
posted
My point wasn't that I didn't like the series, though it certainly isn't my favorite. My question was whether it gets better or worse after the first two books.
With Robert Jordan's Wheel of Time novels, for example, someone who was a little bored with the first four novels SHOULDN'T continue.
So, does it pick up with books three and four? Or is it more of the same?
Posts: 688 | Registered: Nov 2008
| IP: Logged |
posted
Oh. Well... hmm. There are some really good parts in both books, but the pacing and so forth doesn't change that much.
Posts: 1577 | Registered: Sep 2005
| IP: Logged |
Martin talks about untying the "Meereenese knot" and it sounds like he's making some progress. Really it sounds like most everything is written, it's just a matter of figuring out the best sequence of events so that everything flows. He also says that, pending space requirements, Dance will actually have Feast characters in it at the end when the two books match up their timelines and continue forward. If it ends up being too long, those will get pushed to the sixth book, which from the sound of things must already be something like a fifth completed given the page numbers Martin has said have been pushed back.
He also talks a fair bit about the HBO series, which continues to sound fascinating. The first season will be 10 episodes long. He suspects that subsequent seasons will be longer, and that Storm may even require being split into two seasons.
Perhaps most interestingly, the interviewer asked him if, even with the lead time he has, is it possible that HBO will finish the first four books as seasons before he has a chance to produce the material necessary to keep the show going (should it be a success). Martin responded that he should be able to finish the series within the allotted time. That means that, assuming a season a year, perhaps two for ASoS and maybe two for ADWD, the last three books will be out within the next eight years or so. That's actually not bad considering the last two (that's including the forthcoming ADWD) have taken more than ten years.
Martin says that Feast and Dance in particular had were so incredibly complicated that they just too a lot longer to figure out, and suggests that Winds of Winter and Dream of Spring might only take 2-2.5 years to write each instead of five. That's really not a bad guess considering it too two years to write Clash and the considerably longer Storm...and then five for Feast and five plus for Dance. Assuming the last two books don't have the same structural conundrums, they might be out in half the time. One also has to consider that what has become Feast/Dance was never intended to be written. Martin originally planned to leap into the future and deal with this timespan via flashback, but decided that was too ungainly, forcing him to write what might end up being almost 2,000 pages of extra material that was never in his original plans. It's no surprise it has taken him so long. But when he returns to his original plan, it might also be unsurprising to see him pop the books out considerably quicker.
Posts: 21898 | Registered: Nov 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
I'm thinking about getting HBO just for the show. That's a pretty big leap for me, but I'm that excited about it. Besides, if they air all ten episodes back to back, I only need to pay for it for three months.
Posts: 21898 | Registered: Nov 2004
| IP: Logged |
Printer-friendly view of this topic
![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
![[Wink]](wink.gif)
![[Dont Know]](graemlins/dontknow.gif)
