quote:My point is that getting mad at Palin for not being a crack hunter is like getting mad at David Copperfield for not being magic. Or at Lauren Conrad for not actually having dramatic public arguments when the camera isn't running.
What you are missing, is that no one here is mad at her for not being a crack hunter. People are disgusted by her for having built up an image as a a crack hunter when she was running for VP when she obviously is not.
David Copperfield has never claimed to be magic in a political campaign so the analogy is completely inappropriate.
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posted
No, People are displease that she told obvious lies during her last campaign. The fact that she is not officially compaigning right now is irrelevant. She deliberately mislead people during her last campaign. People have a right to be displease when it is revealed that a former candidate deliberately mislead people during their campaign even if that person is no longer a candidate.
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The election was two years ago, and she lost. People aren't over it yet?
Rangel was censured for corruption and that story was out of the papers in less than a week. Lies about abuses of power. While in office. Accepting bribes. Actual corruption. And no one cares. Sure - why would they? He isn't a beautiful woman.
And with all the continued attention, Palin has her own television show and a bestselling book. Sounds like she's winning to me.
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Katharina, the issue is that the Palin that is portrayed on the show contradicts what the Palin that was running for vice president said about herself. When she was a politician she said something. Now that she is an entertainer, it turns out to have been a lie. Whether the women ever runs for president has no effect on that. She is a very popular and polarizing figure, whether you want to call her an entertainer or not. People wanted to talk about it here. Again, Hatrack is a place where we talk about all sorts of things to death that many people in the outside world, and even many people at Hatrack find completely uninteresting. So what? I point this out because your original post actually spent the majority of time criticizing the very conversation that was being had, and was not about whether this was all in service for a presidential run. Your criticism seemed to be about why people would analyze the actions of an entertainer. I'm somewhat miffed at what you think people at Hatrack have been talking about for the last 10 years.
As for the second part, whether she actually runs for president or not, she is obviously not JUST an entertainer. She is a political figure. She was a governor. She ran for vice president. She does political commentary. She endorses candidates and raises money for candidates. Her character as an individual and whether she lies about aspects of her personality are important to the people who listen to her and take her political influence seriously, as evidenced by how other big name republicans treat her and talk about her. You can't deny she has massive influence in the political sphere, and thus the conversation in this thread is entirely relevant. Whether she's doing it so people will vote for her or whether it's so people will send her money and vote for who she wants them to doesn't seem like a terribly important distinction to me.
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quote:Originally posted by MrSquicky: JB, Who's talking about kat?
The only person I can see doing that was me, when I said she was a Palin supporter, which was a pretty small deal, but something that I thought was relevant.
You began talking about kat after The White Whale poorly worded a criticism that seemed more focused on her as opposed to her opinions. The conversation didn't totally shift to a poster back and forth, but I was summoned from the depths by a few posters.
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quote:Palin is not running for anything. Until she files, she is not in a political campaign.
If you have been reading this thread, you are certainly aware that this is a matter of some dispute. People usually begin campaigning for political office well before they officially announce their candidacy. There are plenty of legitimate reason to believe that Sarah Palin's reality show is part of a strategy to further a political career. There are also good arguments on the other side. It's an open question and people certainly are not out of line in reacting based on the belief that she has aspirations for political office. It is clearly a legitimate possibility.
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Two years ago, and she lost. I don't buy the "anger over origin myths" story. It's not enough to explain the vehemence.
Seriously - Eliot Spitzer cavorted with prostitutes while legislating against them, and he was actually in office. He has a television show. He'd LOVE the attention Palin is getting.
His show doesn't get scoured with a fine tooth comb with people popping a blood vessel.
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quote:The election was two years ago, and she lost. People aren't over it yet?
What's to get over? I'm pleased she lost, I'm displeased that so many people still consider her a serious political contender. Google "Will Sarah Palin run for president" and you will see that there are in fact a very large number of people who think of her as a serious candidate for US President. I understand that you don't, I even hope you're right. But unfortunate, many do.
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Was Eliot Spitzer a candidate for VP? Has anyone even suggested he might run for president in 2010? Does he have a reality TV show?
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quote:...a movement with this sort of leadership...
quote:...the people who listen to her and take her political influence seriously...
quote:...I'm displeased that so many people still consider her a serious political contender.
Now THAT - a wish that by destroying Palin's reputation, the power of the conservative movement she has associated herself with will dissolve - now that I believe is a effective and primary motivation for the invective.
If you have no effective argument against the ideals that are driving political action you don't like, ad hominem attack the leaders. That, too, will be sadly ineffective, because Palin isn't the idealogical leader.
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quote:Originally posted by The Rabbit: Was Eliot Spitzer a candidate for VP? Has anyone even suggested he might run for president in 2010? Does he have a reality TV show?
Worse! He has a political talk show!
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quote:Now THAT - a wish that by destroying Palin's reputation, the power of the conservative that she has associated herself with dissolve - now that I believe is a effective and primary motivation for the invective.
That's not at all what I said. Please stop twisting my words and accusing me of saying things which I have in no way said nor implied.
I know many conservatives whose dislike for Palin far exceeds mine. If I were hoping dilute the power of conservatives, I'd be rooting for a Palin nomination. Look at the number of people in this thread alone who voted against McCain because of Palin.
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quote:Originally posted by The Rabbit: Was Eliot Spitzer a candidate for VP? Has anyone even suggested he might run for president in 2010? Does he have a reality TV show?
Worse! He has a political talk show!
So what? How is this relevant to the arguement at hand. I'd never heard of Eliot Spitzer until you mentioned him in this thread. I can't be expected to research every hypocrit on the planet to insure that I criticize everyone who deserves it equally. No one can or will. The fact that there are people who deserve more criticism than they get has absolutely no relevance as to whether or not Sarah Palin does or does not deserve the criticisms she gets. Its a non-sequitur.
You are attacking people at hatrack with your accusations that we are motivated by misogyny and hatred of conservatism. No one here deserves that kind of attack and we would all appreciate it if you stopped.
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quote:Originally posted by rivka: Woman, yes. Beautiful?
Meh.
But regardless, I dislike Palin because of the things she says and does, not what she looks like.
Attractive women are also sometimes harder to criticize than ugly ones. That's a truth that stretches across genders- everybody wants to like a pretty face.
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Wait a second. It's reasonable to criticize Palin on political grounds, currently, because very recently she was a major political factor in elections, Katharina.
That's very straightforward. You don't have to run for political office to be a political figure. It's also a strange argument to make that Palin isn't the ideological leader of the kinds of movements people are criticizing, given that she is incredibly popular with those movements. It really sounds like you're being deliberately obtuse here.
Sarah Palin is. among other things, political. She's not just a reality TV star-you can't just turn that kind of status on and off like that, or at least not expecting to be taken seriously. A person isn't just what their current job is. Who on Earth is treated that way, as though their current occupation is the sum-total of their existence? And she most certainly is one of the ideological leaders of, among other things, the Tea Party Movement, Katharina. These two things are so fundamental as to almost be facts.
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Kat, we can look at this from the other side. You mention Bono and some other liberal entertainers who may go into or have pushed politics and equate them with Governor Palin. You say that they are all "entertainers".
So how is Governor Palin an entertainer?
Does she sing? Dance? Act on the stage or in movies?
no.
She has not entertainment value I can decipher.
She doesn't have a sense of humor that I can find unless its a mean spirited attack on those she sees as her enemies. In fact she is extremely serious and takes everything extremely serious. Not a comment or complaint gets by her with out her taking it extremely serious and attacking those who disagree with her.
Definitely not a comedian.
So what kind of entertainer is she?
She is like all the other reality stars--she entertains us by being famous. She entertains us by being a reality TV star, even when she isn't doing her Alaska show.
I will grant you that she is a Reality TV star.
But how does the public get entertained by reality TV stars like Ozzie Ozborne and family? Like Snooki from Jersey Shores?
We make fun of them. We laugh at the silly mistakes and we curse the schemers on Survivor. We make jokes about them and point out their foibles.
That is how America treats its Reality TV Stars.
That is how we treated Governor Palin in this thread--ridiculing her reality TV performance.
Some conservatives have criticized Governor Palin for dragging the conservative message down to that level. Don't blame us for that. She should have known what she was getting herself into.
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quote:Originally posted by Rakeesh: Wait a second. It's reasonable to criticize Palin on political grounds, currently, because very recently she was a major political factor in elections, Katharina.
QFT. She is fundraising for and endorsing candidates, and she is making political stump speeches. That's being a politician. Appearing on TV or acting as an entertainer or "writer" doesn't alter that much. Churchill spent a goodly amount of his time as a public speaker, but nobody was ever under the illusion that he wasn't running for prime minister from the age of 25.
quote:
quote:Originally posted by katharina: Two years ago, and she lost. I don't buy the "anger over origin myths" story. It's not enough to explain the vehemence.
:sigh: Even setting aside all the other behavior Palin engages in on a regular basis which embarrasses her state and the American people, she has given regular speeches and made scores of public comments which have been highly offensive, and disturbing to many people. I can call to mind specifically a speech she gave recently in which she crowed on and on about her fear and anger of "socialism" while she misconstrued and misrepresented what socialism was, what the actual politics of her opponents entailed, etc. People are vehemently opposed to her because, frankly, she continues to publicly represent some of the most idiotic, jingoistic, regressive political ideology in America. The fact that her stupidity seems not to be important to so many people is disturbing- but trust me, I dislike her for about 100 reasons before the fact that she's a "folksy lady." I recognize that as an affectation which is part and parcel to her whole outlook.
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