Some of these are obvious (I love that some guy had the balls to include Red Dawn), others are positively trumped up. Which perhaps makes the point that truly conservative films are truly rare.
Brazil I can actually see. The movie is very anti-bureaucracy, so if you hate "big govt" it will appeal.
The ones that really don't belong are Juno, Groundhog Day, Ghostbusters and A Simple Plan. Master and Commander is also pretty trumped-up. It's a period movie about a sailing ship, so yes, there's a captain and he's in command.
I think the point made about the Incredibles having a conservative message is spot-on. All that talk about "If everyone is special, no one is" really bugged me about that otherwise-good movie.
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quote:The movie is very anti-bureaucracy, so if you hate "big govt" it will appeal.
Except that, as far as I can tell, it's a satirical critique of a very specific historical period in Britain in much the same way that "V for Vendetta" was. It's anti-authoritarian, but it's specifically anti-fascist. An American conservative wouldn't recognize himself on the side of the rebels in that film.
One thing that's very interesting is noting which films are genuinely "conservative" and which have been shoehorned into that box, and then checking the name of the person who made the suggestion. It's rather revealing, and I think says a lot about the reasons the people in question consider themselves "conservative."
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The interpretations: Juno is about keeping babies. Groundhog day is about being in a monogamous heterosexual relationship. Ghostbusters has the guy from Groundhog day, which gives it an advantage already. Also, it's about fighting demons! I've never seen A Simple Plan, but they like simple things.
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Braveheart is kind of an odd choice. A person that leads a primitive insurrection against an occupying force with superior technology, adopting terrorist tactics, and is tortured by that occupying force.
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No, Ghostbusters is "conservative" because an agency enforcing environmental regulations is the know-nothing antagonist.
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quote:16. Master and Commander (2003): This naval-adventure film starring Russell Crowe is based on the books of Patrick O’Brian, and here’s what A. O. Scott of the New York Times said in his review: “The Napoleonic wars that followed the French Revolution gave birth, among other things, to British conservatism, and Master and Commander, making no concessions to modern, egalitarian sensibilities, is among the most thoroughly and proudly conservative movies ever made. It imagines the [H.M.S.] Surprise as a coherent society in which stability is underwritten by custom and every man knows his duty and his place. I would not have been surprised to see Edmund Burke’s name in the credits.”
posted
Juno is both pro-choice and pro-life, which partially explains its mass appeal. The girl has the legal option of aborting, but chooses to keep the baby anyway. A "win" for both sides.
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I was going to suggest both Braveheart and Team America. I was surprised to find both of them listed.
Mucus, you think that Braveheart is an odd choice because it's about "a person that leads a primitive insurrection against an occupying force with superior technology, adopting terrorist tactics. . ." I'd counter and say that the same could be applied to George Washington. Braveheart is ultimately a movie that depicts people willing to fight and stand up for their beliefs against tyranny, especially as the government has become too large and non-representative. It also paints the government as one that doesn't uphold the rights of liberty nor protect its constituents.
Team America, on the other hand, may seem to lampoon both conservatives and liberals, but it really depends on viewpoint. Many convervatives feel that Bush and his cronies NEEDED lampooning. Can someone please tell me how he was supposedly fiscally conservative? Or that war?
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By the time I reached "Team America, World Police" being used as an example of one of the 'best conservative movies' I realized I was reading what may well be the dumbest thing that it is possible for a human being to write. No really, this list is really, really dumb.
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quote:Originally posted by TomDavidson: No, Ghostbusters is "conservative" because an agency enforcing environmental regulations is the know-nothing antagonist.
I thought it was because a couple of guys formed a small business that prospered because they weren't being taxed.
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quote:Originally posted by Samprimary: By the time I reached "Team America, World Police" being used as an example of one of the 'best conservative movies' I realized I was reading what may well be the dumbest thing that it is possible for a human being to write. No really, this list is really, really dumb.
Really? It seems really clear to me that Tean America, World Police would resonate pretty strongly with a lot of conservatives. I know that several conservative commentators had a lot of praise for it when it came out. I don't get why you think it is stupid to think of it this way. Could you explain?
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quote: We do not claim that the writers, directors, producers, gaffers, and key grips involved with these films are conservative. We certainly make no such assertion about the actors. Yet the results are indisputable: Conservatives enjoy these films because they are great movies that offer compelling messages about freedom, families, patriotism, traditions, and more.
And this in particular:
quote: Once in a blue moon, Hollywood releases a conservative movie, or at least a film that resonates with conservatives in a particular way.
I don't see the problem.
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quote:Originally posted by Samprimary: By the time I reached "Team America, World Police" being used as an example of one of the 'best conservative movies' I realized I was reading what may well be the dumbest thing that it is possible for a human being to write. No really, this list is really, really dumb.
Really? It seems really clear to me that Tean America, World Police would resonate pretty strongly with a lot of conservatives. I know that several conservative commentators had a lot of praise for it when it came out. I don't get why you think it is stupid to think of it this way. Could you explain?
Yeah, the movie is definitely pro-Team America in the end.
On the other hand, the movie flaunts socially conservative sensibilities pretty heavily (as in the sex scene).
One reason I don't think of the movie as conservative is that the liberal-bashing parts are the least funny. Example: Matt Damon's not retarded, he's smarter than most actors. If it had been Affleck , they would have had a point.
I do find it funny when he ironically says "Alec Baldwin! He's the greatest actor in the world!" But that part of the movie is a bit dated now, after Baldwin got out of his slump and has since had some wonderful roles.
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I think the Matt Damon thing is hilarious. But, I think I took it differently. To me, it wasn't making fun of Matt Damon, really. It's just a ridiculous thing that they thought was funny that didn't have a barb or larger point behind it.
I'm pretty sure that was the intention, because I've seen an interview with Matt and Trey where that's basically what they said. One turned to the other and said "Matt Damon" and they both lost it.
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Some of these are obvious (I love that some guy had the balls to include Red Dawn)
Why is that ballsy? The movie was denounced as a right wing wet dream when it first came out. High schoolers going to the hills and killing commie bastards. Of course it's a conservative movie.
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Some of these are obvious (I love that some guy had the balls to include Red Dawn)
Why is that ballsy? The movie was denounced as a right wing wet dream when it first came out. High schoolers going to the hills and killing commie bastards. Of course it's a conservative movie.
It's ballsy because it's a classic bad movie. The guy had the balls to admit liking Red Dawn non-ironically.
Even Jennifer Grey sucks in Red Dawn. "What you said... was wrong!"
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Some of these are obvious (I love that some guy had the balls to include Red Dawn)
Why is that ballsy? The movie was denounced as a right wing wet dream when it first came out. High schoolers going to the hills and killing commie bastards. Of course it's a conservative movie.
It's ballsy because it's a classic bad movie. The guy had the balls to admit liking Red Dawn non-ironically.
I'm not sure how to say this. I don't mean this in a bad way, but the idea of liking a movie ironically smacks of...let's say aspects of American liberal culture that many in American conservative culture look down on. And, I believe that there is probably a correlation between looking down on those aspects and liking Red Dawn.
Incidentally, I think Red Dawn kicks ass and not ironically. I also know it's not a good movie. But, come on, "Wolverines!"
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I wouldn't call "Red Dawn" a bad movie. For me it's a "guilty pleasure." Once you get past the over-the-top premise, it's a fun movie to watch.
I feel similarly about Starship Troopers; except in ST there are a lot of sly little touchs where the director seems to equate conservatism with fascism.
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quote:Originally posted by Flying Fish: I wouldn't call "Red Dawn" a bad movie. For me it's a "guilty pleasure." Once you get past the over-the-top premise, it's a fun movie to watch.
I feel similarly about Starship Troopers; except in ST there are a lot of sly little touchs where the director seems to equate conservatism with fascism.
Yeah, fair enough. The way I like Red Dawn isn't the same as the way I like Plan 9. It's more like how I feel about Rambo III or Ice Pirates.
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I'm pretty damn liberal, and I absolutely loved Red Dawn. It was one of my favorite movies as a kid. Granted, I wasn't liberal back then, or at least I didn't know I was.
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quote:I'm not sure how to say this. I don't mean this in a bad way, but the idea of liking a movie ironically smacks of...let's say aspects of American liberal culture that many in American conservative culture look down on. And, I believe that there is probably a correlation between looking down on those aspects and liking Red Dawn.
Incidentally, I think Red Dawn kicks ass and not ironically. I also know it's not a good movie. But, come on, "Wolverines!"
Well said, and agreed!
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300 also has a nation subject to the whims of a corrupt and broken religion, which the hero ignores. I guess because it isn't Christianity it doesn't count.
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Are you *actually* conservative? Because the point of the list is not to convert liberals with these movies, but to show other conservatives some movies that they'd like.
As for Spartans practicing infanticide... well a) I don't think that was highlighted in the movie, and the movie isn't historically accurate in all kinds of ways. So I think it's largely irrelevant. They do focus on the children being forced to survive in incredibly harsh conditions, but the overall appeal I can see the movie having is showcasing an extreme, almost cartoonish version of conservative ideals (which does include tough parenting) which you wouldn't actually copy, but enjoy getting to watch in a setting that was so obviously exaggerated that you don't have to worry about whether it makes sense.
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quote:Originally posted by Synesthesia: Uh... do they really want to list 300 as a conservative movie? Spartans practiced infanticide.
That list just makes me feel very, very not conservative.
Man, that really set me back. Up until this, I had regarded you as one of the leading conservative voices on Hatrack. Imagine my shock!
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quote:Originally posted by Xavier: 300 also has a nation subject to the whims of a corrupt and broken religion, which the hero ignores. I guess because it isn't Christianity it doesn't count.
I know. And every single conservative belongs to the monolithic Christian religion that they know is corrupt to the core.
edit:
I think that nearly any movie that has a substantial group of people who succeed or at least accomplish great things through discipline, hard work, and group cohesion instead of them all being special snowflakes is going to be one that resonates with many conservatives. I don't know that this normally makes a good movie though.
edit 2: Thinking about it, I think you could consider 8 Mile a "conservative" movie, which kind of blows my mind a bit.
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The film industry is Big Business. So ya know, if you take this question out of the box, turn it sideways, and look at it through the wrong end of binoculars while taking recreational pharmaceuticals, it becomes obvious that all movies could be thought of as Conservative. Because isn’t it the goal of all film makers, even Michael Moore, to make scads of money. And isn’t trying to make scads of money what Conservatives are usually thought of as wanting to do?
Edited to add: This forum needs a “being facetious” or “tongue in cheek” smiley.
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BlackBlade sits on the sidelines terrified to even take a breath. Can MrSquicky continue his perfect streak of aces? A smile briefly visits the corner of his mouth, dispite the tension.Posts: 14316 | Registered: Jul 2005
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One hilarious bit from the Braveheart commentary:
quote:Six years later, amid the ruins of the Twin Towers, Gibson’s message resonated with a generation of American youth who signed up to fight terrorists, instead of inviting them to join a “constructive dialogue.” Liberals have never forgiven Gibson since.
Um, liberals don't hate Mel Gibson because of Braveheart. They hate him (a) because of Passion of the Christ, (b) because anyone with a conscience should be horrified by the man's behavior.
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I remember a column a while back talking about the bizarre recommendations conservative politicians, I think it might have been Newt Gingrich or maybe Pat Robertson, suggested as family friendly movies. Two that I can recall where True Lies and Braveheart. And the quip for Braveheart was something like "Hey, the king throws a gay guy out a window. How could Pat Robertson not like that?"
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quote:Originally posted by Destineer: One hilarious bit from the Braveheart commentary:
quote:Six years later, amid the ruins of the Twin Towers, Gibson’s message resonated with a generation of American youth who signed up to fight terrorists, instead of inviting them to join a “constructive dialogue.” Liberals have never forgiven Gibson since.
Um, liberals don't hate Mel Gibson because of Braveheart. They hate him (a) because of Passion of the Christ, (b) because anyone with a conscience should be horrified by the man's behavior.
A lot of the commentary is cringe-inducingly bad and I think represents the sort of bad qualities that it looks like some here are imputing to all conversatives.
I really liked the one for Groundhog Day, though:
quote:This putatively wacky comedy about Bill Murray as an obnoxious weatherman cursed to relive the same day over and over in a small Pennsylvania town, perhaps for eternity, is in fact a sophisticated commentary on the good and true. Theologians and philosophers across the ideological spectrum have embraced it. For the conservative, the moral of the tale is that redemption and meaning are derived not from indulging your “authentic” instincts and drives, but from striving to live up to external and timeless ideals. Murray begins the film as an irony-soaked narcissist, contemptuous of beauty, art, and commitment. His journey of self-discovery leads him to understand that the fads of modernity are no substitute for the permanent things.
posted
The Patriot rather than Braveheart, and Hanoi Hilton (1987). The Patriot wasn't very good, and was almost a remake of Braveheart, but I think it would have more resonance with a modern American conservative.
Hanoi Hilton has a brutal portrayal of Jane Fonda, and has a scene in which the prisoners are given -- for the first time in years -- letters from home. Or, they are given empty envelopes, and told that they will not get the letters (as a form of psychological warfare). It backfires when one of the men (most of the prisoners were naval aviators) notices that his letter bears a stamp commemorating Apollo 11. These men, who had been incommunicado for years, thus learn of the successful moon landing.
Does anybody watch Braveheart or 300 and feel like it's a "conservative" movie? Or Lord of the Rings????
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I'll be interested to see what they are going to do with the Red Dawn remake that will be coming out.
It looks like it will be coming out after MGM is done with its Chapter 11 reorganization.
I was kind of surprised to see Juno on the list as well. I know the girl decides to keep the baby, but how does that make it a Conservative movie? What about the pre-marital sex? Or divorce?
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Braveheart and 300 definitely. Lord of the Rings, no. That was just someone trying to twist something popular around to support the largely unsupportable Iraq war.
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With 300 I was just like, oooo, look at all of those abs. OOOOO. So cobbled and perfect. With L of the R I was thinking, ooooo, this movie is good, and ooooo that dude's eyes are huge and Aragorn is handsome. With Braveheart, it's mostly wondering about the kilts.
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quote:Originally posted by Samprimary: By the time I reached "Team America, World Police" being used as an example of one of the 'best conservative movies' I realized I was reading what may well be the dumbest thing that it is possible for a human being to write. No really, this list is really, really dumb.
Really? It seems really clear to me that Tean America, World Police would resonate pretty strongly with a lot of conservatives. I know that several conservative commentators had a lot of praise for it when it came out. I don't get why you think it is stupid to think of it this way. Could you explain?
Because Team America follows the same premise that South Park's afghanistan episode follows: it spends the most time brutally mocking the fallout and stupidity of america's Bush-era cowboy-mentality diplomacy and international involvement, and is actually stringently mocking conservatives alongside the weenie liberals who get so much traction violently opposing any attempt at do-goodery.
Basically, the way that this conservative is hailing this movie as one of the top 25 'conservative movies ever made' is like profoundly unintentional self-loathing, since they seem to have let it go entirely over their heads that most of the satire of the entire movie (short of, perhaps, the jabs at KJI) is aimed at them and their armchair generalissimo ilk, and both of the authors adamantly laugh at pretty much anyone who insists that they are either conservative OR liberal or that their work promotes either end of the spectrum. The way this article's author writes it, it basically screams to me that he's promoting this movie as a great conservative movie because he doesn't understand it's making fun of his side with equal measure. To champion a movie as a 'great movie for our side!' because you're apparently too dumb to see that it mostly makes fun of you as a stereotype (the movie's name is literally 'team america: world police' ffs) is imbecilic.
The merits of the movie as 'championing conservatism' seem to have been inspired by the author liking how it called the liberal hollywood elite a bunch of fags. It's stupid. It's just a good individual example of what's wrong with this article in general, which includes but is not limited to blindly inferring a pro-conservative message in silly ways for most of these movies.
There's another big one, but I'll wait on that. I just want people to understand how particularly dumb the TA:WP listing is.
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quote:Originally posted by Geraine: I was kind of surprised to see Juno on the list as well. I know the girl decides to keep the baby, but how does that make it a Conservative movie? What about the pre-marital sex? Or divorce?
It doesn't. This one made me roll my eyes as well. I really want to share this article with people I know who could think up a way better list from their knowledge of cinematic themes and storytelling. In ten minutes.
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quote:Originally posted by Samprimary: By the time I reached "Team America, World Police" being used as an example of one of the 'best conservative movies' I realized I was reading what may well be the dumbest thing that it is possible for a human being to write. No really, this list is really, really dumb.
Really? It seems really clear to me that Tean America, World Police would resonate pretty strongly with a lot of conservatives. I know that several conservative commentators had a lot of praise for it when it came out. I don't get why you think it is stupid to think of it this way. Could you explain?
Because Team America follows the same premise that South Park's afghanistan episode follows: it spends the most time brutally mocking the fallout and stupidity of america's Bush-era cowboy-mentality diplomacy and international involvement, and is actually stringently mocking conservatives alongside the weenie liberals who get so much traction violently opposing any attempt at do-goodery.
Basically, the way that this conservative is hailing this movie as one of the top 25 'conservative movies ever made' is like profoundly unintentional self-loathing, since they seem to have let it go entirely over their heads that most of the satire of the entire movie (short of, perhaps, the jabs at KJI) is aimed at them and their armchair generalissimo ilk, and both of the authors adamantly laugh at pretty much anyone who insists that they are either conservative OR liberal or that their work promotes either end of the spectrum. The way this article's author writes it, it basically screams to me that he's promoting this movie as a great conservative movie because he doesn't understand it's making fun of his side with equal measure. To champion a movie as a 'great movie for our side!' because you're apparently too dumb to see that it mostly makes fun of you as a stereotype (the movie's name is literally 'team america: world police' ffs) is imbecilic.
The merits of the movie as 'championing conservatism' seem to have been inspired by the author liking how it called the liberal hollywood elite a bunch of fags. It's stupid. It's just a good individual example of what's wrong with this article in general, which includes but is not limited to blindly inferring a pro-conservative message in silly ways for most of these movies.
There's another big one, but I'll wait on that. I just want people to understand how particularly dumb the TA:WP listing is.
errr...I think you are really missing the point in like 3 different ways.
First, this is not a list of pro-conservative movies. It's one of movies that resonate with conservatives.
Two, you don't seem to get one of the central points of the movie. I think you're trying to fit the satire into your rather limited partisan bias, rather than seeing what was intended. Along with poking fun at absurd cowboy-ism and ignorant interventions - which, although this may surprise some, is actually something that many conservatives also have a problem with - it also strongly mocks the idea that violence is never the answer.
The d/p/a speech is the real statement of this and that's a cruder, less pure (which I think makes it more accurate) version of the dogs/sheep/wolves idea of the use of force that is a conservative mainstay.
There are plenty of conservatives who are, for lack of a better word, stupid. There are also plenty who are not. They do actually get that the movie is in part making fun of them. They also get that the movie speaks to the need, in some cases, for world police and that you do sometimes need people with guns to sort out other people with guns so that you can have people who have the space and freedom to build things while not worrying about it.
There are movies on that list that really don't belong there, but I think your problems with this one are more indicative of your own flaws than that of the list.
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quote:First, this is not a list of pro-conservative movies. It's one of movies that resonate with conservatives.
Yeah, you're wrong. It's a list of what they consider the best conservative movies. That's why they literally named it "The Best Conservative Movies." 'resonating with conservatives' is one of the reasons listed for why a movie might make this list.
Here is an actual quote from that list's intro.
quote:we decided to produce a list of the 25 best conservative movies of the last 25 years.
Not 'the best movies for conservatives.' They explicitly state the best conservative movies. The name of the list is The Best Conservative Movies. Sorry.
quote:There are movies on that list that really don't belong there, but I think your problems with this one are more indicative of your own flaws than that of the list.
I'm sure you would; you have weird interpretations of me and my motives and biases constantly. I know that not all conservatives are stupid. The ones responsible for this list are. Coming up with Team America: World Police as one of the top 25 listings in a list called "The Best Conservative Movies" (not 'The Movies That Resonate The Most With Conservatives,' to remind you), then you're in trouble.
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In the LOR blurb they mention Wormtongue who, in the movie, accuses Eomer of "warmongering." Obviously, Wormtongue must be a liberal, while Eomer is a conservative.
posted
Dude, rollainm already posted a quote that shows MrS is right about the purpose of the list.
Anyway, however you feel about Team America, you must admit that there are far worse picks on the list. A Simple Plan and Groundhog Day are probably the two most absurd.
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Interestingly, there's a strong correlation between how much they had to stretch to get a movie on the list, and how good the movie actually is. The best (and maybe the only good) movies on the list are ones that don't really fit the theme.
In contrast, think of what a distinguished list we could put together of liberal movies.
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As I said, I think Groundhog Day is a great fit. It's almost a Frank Capra film in sensibility.
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quote:Why is that ballsy? The movie was denounced as a right wing wet dream when it first came out. High schoolers going to the hills and killing commie bastards. Of course it's a conservative movie.
Who denounced it? I'll shoot 'em in the neck.
Red Dawn was awesome.
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I disagree that there's anything about Capra-type sensibilities that appeals to conservatives in particular (as opposed to liberals). It's the sort of thing that conservatives think liberals don't like. But everybody likes It's A Wonderful Life, and everybody likes Groundhog Day.
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quote:Originally posted by Destineer: Interestingly, there's a strong correlation between how much they had to stretch to get a movie on the list, and how good the movie actually is. The best (and maybe the only good) movies on the list are ones that don't really fit the theme.
In contrast, think of what a distinguished list we could put together of liberal movies.
I don't know about that? I think you could get plenty of awesome movies in a list that fits the theme of conservative sensibilities.
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quote:Originally posted by Destineer: I disagree that there's anything about Capra-type sensibilities that appeals to conservatives in particular (as opposed to liberals). It's the sort of thing that conservatives think liberals don't like. But everybody likes It's A Wonderful Life, and everybody likes Groundhog Day.
I don't like It's a Wonderful Life, but this is because it's my job to have warped opinions about stuff. It's just- There's nothing wrong with being a librarian!!! And people need to respect people like George who make the world a better place! They need to thank them every day all the time so they don't want to kill themselves.
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`I reckon. But George made life so good for those people and gave up everything for them. They should have showed him appreciation ages ago, but that's just my weird opinion on things.
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