quote:Originally posted by Mucus: It's not so bad, from my studies of unguarded prison planets, usually it only takes a day or two for good characters to break-out of unguarded prison planets. On the other hand, if you're actually evil, what usually happens is you end up taking over one of the Enterprises before being defeated. Either that or a well-meaning SG team breaks you out of prison.
Worst case scenario, Jet Li comes and beats everyone up *shrug*
quote:There's still a question you haven't much focused on, Stone_Wolf. Why is it important that they be killed at al?
This is at the heart of the question I am asking, just phrased in a slightly different way.
Is it safe to say that your position can be summed up by "We should only kill criminals if incarceration doesn't stop them from committing crimes"?
For me the idea behind the "why" was always that society had a right to protect itself. But you and other have pointed out that there are other ways.
Some have said that my initial position was influenced by revenge. I have thought long and hard about this, and I don't agree.
My beliefs are a shamattering of this and that when it comes to souls and afterlife, etc, but at the end of the day, I seem to believe in reincarnation, of our essences returning until we have gained enough wisdom to be able to transcend morality and the lessons of this life.
The reason I mention this is, I don't think that death is the end, so killing people who are on such a wrong path as to rape and murder seemed more like a "reset button" then vengeance. This also influenced me when it came to the possibility of executing the wrongfully accused.
But it really isn't fair to give cart blanch to kill on such a theoretical belief.
Posts: 6683 | Registered: Jun 2005
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quote:Is it safe to say that your position can be summed up by "We should only kill criminals if incarceration doesn't stop them from committing crimes"?
From committing crimes against people - though the idea of capital punishment for abuses of office that necessarily involve forethought and considerations about getting caught, that's an interesting notion - yes, I think I could get behind that.
It would also be necessary to include an item about proving that the person being executed actually committed the crime, and that we proved they committed the crime in a lawful way-and that those laws were just. That's a lot of legwork, but killing ought to be serious business.
quote:For me the idea behind the "why" was always that society had a right to protect itself. But you and other have pointed out that there are other ways.
Yes, exactly. And since those ways aren't as irreversible as execution, they ought to be used, especially since the benefits of using maximum force are sketchy at best. When you take emotion out of it, it's pretty difficult to make a case that includes execution and doesn't include concepts like vengeance.
quote: The reason I mention this is, I don't think that death is the end, so killing people who are on such a wrong path as to rape and murder seemed more like a "reset button" then vengeance. This also influenced me when it came to the possibility of executing the wrongfully accused.
Alright, but this seems to me to be at odds with talk about criminals needing to worry about 'staring down the barrel of the US of A' and 'scum of the Earth'. To me, that kind of language sounds like vengeance talk. Not, y'know, pure unadulterated 100% vengeance, but a definite smattering of vengeance in there somewhere. That's not really a criticism, by the way, since wanting to avenge an injustice seems quite natural to me.
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posted
My grandmother often tells me, "Sometimes you have to just let people be who they have worked so hard to become."
The thing about it is, it is nearly impossible to reconcile who is a bad person from their own choices and who is a bad person from being raised poorly, abuse, lack of love and affection and generally having the lesson that the world is a bad place and no one will take care of them but themselfs beaten into them so often.
I'm sure it's a real combo. I'm sure even "bad people" still have something to offer the world. I'm sure even "good people" have weak and hurting moments and strike out in cruelty and fear.
I can't seem to find any supporting data, but I seem to remember that most child molesters were molested themselves.
If there is fair way to judge people's souls as to what they deserve, it is beyond me.
I'm sorry, I know I had more points to make, but it's very early and I seem to be very distractable. I'll have to return to this a little later, maybe after some breakfast.
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