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» Hatrack River Forum » Active Forums » Books, Films, Food and Culture » Ebert vs. Margera (R.I.P. Ryan Dunn) (Page 2)

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Author Topic: Ebert vs. Margera (R.I.P. Ryan Dunn)
Stone_Wolf_
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Good question...so, the person decides to play, puts one bullet into the gun, points it at their own head, click, then at the sleeper, boom...I don't know if that meets the criteria of deliberate murder.
quote:
The law generally differentiates between levels of criminal culpability based on the mens rea, or state of mind. This is particularly true within the law of homicide, where murder requires either the intent to kill – a state of mind called malice, or malice aforethought – or the knowledge that one's actions are likely to result in death; manslaughter, on the other hand, requires a lack of any prior intention to kill or create a deadly situation.

Manslaughter is usually broken down into two distinct categories: voluntary manslaughter and involuntary manslaughter.

Source. (emphasis mine)

Seems like murder to me.

I'm not sure at all if drinking and driving is likely to cause the death of others.

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Rakeesh
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That depends entirely in circumstances outside the drunk driver's control, at least as far as others are concerned. It's likely to result in death if one is drunk while driving through a school zone, for example, when school is getting out. Lots of small, unwary pedestrians. Less likely driving through an industrial district late at night. Much less likely when driving a rural road very late at night.

But if one is driving many thousands of pounds of metal at even moderate speeds while drunk...well, the likelihood of death becomes much more a matter of luck.

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rivka
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quote:
Originally posted by Stone_Wolf_:
I'm not sure at all if drinking and driving is likely to cause the death of others.

And this attitude is EXACTLY why Ebert said what he did.

quote:
Originally posted by Stone_Wolf_:
but come on...we are not exactly ignorant of the concept that drinking and driving is bad

Not nearly aware enough. Case in point.
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Hobbes
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Does likely mean greater than 50% chance, or something less restrictive? I imagine driving drunk through a school zone when school lets out still would result in death less than 50% of the time, yet I would personally label it as 'likely' anyways.

Hobbes [Smile]

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Stone_Wolf_
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rivka, those two statements live harmoniously. Something can be bad, and dangerous and not have a high statistical likely hood of causing deaths. Not only that, you are quoting me saying I'm not sure...as in, don't know for certain.

Sheesh.

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Samprimary
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you can be sure that drinking and driving is likely to cause scores of messy and preventable deaths. there doesn't need to be any ambiguity in the matter.
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Stone_Wolf_
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Drinking and driving ≠ deliberate murder.

Drinking and driving = illegal, immoral, evil, dangerous, stupid, preventable.

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BlackBlade
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I would like to point out that the writers of the second Freakonomics book looked at accidents involving drunk driving and accidents involving walking home drunk and found that you are at greater risk walking home, than you are driving. They summed it up with, "Friends don't let friends walk home drunk."

That's more an argument for having a designated driver, than drunk driving, but I was surprised to read that that was the case.

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shadowland
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In 2008 there were 11,773 alcohol-impaired fatalities, and there were 1,171,935 DUI arrests throughout the US. (Unknown is how many of those arrests prevented a fatality, and how many drunk drivers were never stopped) From those statistics, we know that no more than 1% of drunk drivers caused a death in 2008. With that said, there were 11,773 deaths (and countless more injuries) that should have been avoided. That in itself is a good enough of a reason to treat drunk driving very seriously and very harshly. And there are additional valid reasons as well. I don't think there is any need to rely on 'likeliness to cause death' as a reason to shun drunk driving.
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Stone_Wolf_
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quote:
Originally posted by katharina:
I don't care what people do to themselves when they are adults, but getting in a car drunk is a deliberate murder just waiting to happen

-1

quote:
Originally posted by Samprimary:
You can be sure that drinking and driving is likely to cause scores of messy and preventable deaths.

+1
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Rakeesh
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Those are very nearly the same statements. In another situation, with comparable risks and uncertainties, few would hesitate to call it deliberate murder waiting to happen-if I fired a gun into a house at 2 in the afternoon thinking no one would be at home, and someone *was* there and I killed 'em, well...

If I drive a huge hunk of fast moving metal while my reflexes, judgment, and senses are impaired and just didn't realize I might've killed someone...


Drunk driving isn't something people are in the dark about. In order to get a license, even, you are required to learn something of how dangerous it is. There isn't anyone who hasn't been taught-just people who don't believe it.

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