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» Hatrack River Forum » Active Forums » Books, Films, Food and Culture » Do it. DO IT. Yesterday is, tomorrow, or .. something? DOOO ITTT, dreams? DO IT. (Page 4)

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Author Topic: Do it. DO IT. Yesterday is, tomorrow, or .. something? DOOO ITTT, dreams? DO IT.
Samprimary
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Hang on, as a polyamorist, I will work out the technicalities of open polythreadpostamory
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Samprimary
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quote:
Originally posted by Misha McBride:
Hey, I read that thread too! E/N is one of my guilty pleasures.

pps yes this. yes this is me. e/n is everything. did you wholly ingest the Pixelante thread, that was amazing
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Lyrhawn
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This is becoming dangerously close to those communes you hear about on TV that the FBI ends up raiding.
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Samprimary
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Not really, because anyone who shows too much interest is either killed or married off to one of my trafficked asian girlfriends
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Orincoro
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quote:
Originally posted by Samprimary:
quote:
Originally posted by Stone_Wolf_:
Discuss.

In the distance, a lawyer softly explodes
  • I am naive and operate under the assumption that that which I do not understand is bad
  • I find simplistic solutions gratifying, and I feel that they make me look reasonable and fair
  • I operate under the assumption that currently complex and intricate legal systems find the root of that complexity not in the practical necessities of governing using an imperfect framework, but instead because the framework itself is "too complicated." And i see an easy solution to the complicated problems of governance in a broad, little thought out reform.
  • simplicity appeals to me, and I attempt to make this appear a strength, rather than a weakness or a total lack of depth.

discuss.

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Stone_Wolf_
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  • I am pompous, presumptive ass bag, more interested in mocking others then actually contributing to a conversation.

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Orincoro
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Really?

I don't use indefinite articles. And I don't know the difference between "presumptive" and "presumptuous."

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Stone_Wolf_
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  • I am a pompous, assumptive (auto correct on my phone) ass bag, who is more interested in mocking others (and correcting their grammar) then contributing to the actual conversation.

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Orincoro
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I see, well, that sheds some light on your habit of making broad pointless declarations and then getting huffy when you're laughed at, because I would call that "being assumptive," since I happen to know what that means, and you happen not to.
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Stone_Wolf_
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I love you too.
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Dan_Frank
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Stone Wolf: "Than," not "then."

Orincoro: "Fellow forum poster," not "rude jerk."

You're both welcome.

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Dan_Frank
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(Also the thread title is surprisingly accurate right now)
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Stone_Wolf_
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Thanks Danf!

I never really was clear on when "than" is appropriate over "then"...I'll look it up.

I am a bit confused over your correction of Orincoro, as he never used the words "rude jerk" unless of course you are saying he should act like a "fellow forum poster" and not a...

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Orincoro
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quote:
Originally posted by Stone_Wolf_:
I love you too.

I'm changing my relationship status to "oversimplified."
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Stone_Wolf_
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I tell you what Orincoro, I'm gunna try and really communicate with you. I doubt it will be a fruitful attempt, but for my part, I will try.

From what little I know of you, I suspect you are deeply conflicted person, a single American living abroad as a teacher (my golly I hope you teach adults and not children) inflicting your particular brand of self righteous, bitter, condemning speculation upon whoever you feel you can show up on the net in a vain attempt to convince yourself of your moral/intellectual superiority. Perhaps you find being an antagonist in this safe anonymous venue to release the negative pressure and therefore you can be a sterling human being in real life. I certainly hope so, though I doubt it highly. I suspect instead you suffer from deep seated self worth issues which cause you to constantly attempt to prove your superiority at the expense of others as you are unable or unwilling to address whichever traumatic events caused the real issues.

Now, here is the important part. I don't care. I don't care if the above is accurate or simply armchair physiology mixed with wild imagination on my part. Because the reasons you act the way you act are of no interest to me. Heck, your opinions are pretty much of no interest to me.

Seems odd that I would put time and effort into telling you these things if the above were true, aye? Let me explain.

I am a stay at home dad on unemployment for two small children, ages 2.5 and 1. My wife struggles through working full time, going to school prepping to be an RN and has constant headaches/migraines. I enjoy discussion of ideas, and word play, and books and culture that is Hatrack, it is a place I get to come for "grown up time". My day, while hugely rewarding and fulfilling, is filled with cleaning, cooking, changing diapers, teaching and playing with my children. Rinse and repeat.

My point is that I come here for conversations which ascend from the level of "A is for apple, B is for ball." Or to put it another way, My life is full, and I have no need to prove myself to anyone, let alone someone like yourself for which I have so little respect.

So, feel free to poke fun. I don't mind. I am not fuming on the other side of the screen at your "cutting assessment" of me. I don't care what you think.

You might ask yourself why I would post those thoughts in this particular thread if I wasn't willing to have some fun with the ideas. Of course what you did wasn't friendly, nor fun, it was basically an attempt to bully, although not a very good one. Too many assumptions, too easy to dismiss, as quite a bit of your retorts are.

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Samprimary
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The reactor is self-sustaining. The core has warmed up and the thread now generates net drama output off of reactions alone. We no longer need to supply it with anything. Soon, we will online it to the grid. A bright, shining future full of cheap, clean, accessible drama. Enough to power whole forums. Thanks to what we have achieved here, none shall feel beyond drama because of their means. No longer will there be hovels and ghettos where drama exists only as a spectacle and a plaything of others. No child shall want for drama simply because of their upbringing.
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Orincoro
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"Now, here is the important part. I don't care. I don't care if the above is accurate or simply armchair physiology mixed with wild imagination on my part. Because the reasons you act the way you act are of no interest to me. Heck, your opinions are pretty much of no interest to me."

The above is rather solid proof of diingenuousness in this statement. Perhaps you are the type to make utterly careless assessments of people's character, and the quality of their personal lives, of which you know little, and assume a great deal which is wrong. I don't, in case you were wishing I would, address you as the person I think you are in your daily life outside of this forum. That kind of presumption goes a great deal beyond the offense I have offered you, which is to address who you are here. I will thank you to do the same. My personal life is not a matter for your speculation, nor material to any discussion I have with you, just as your personal life is not fodder for my speculation. I do not share most of my personal life, and have not for a long time, because I don't see it as your business. I would hope you'd save that kind of crap for a personal message, if it ever needed saying.

Notice: I didn't react to being called names earlier, because I *am* being pompous. I can recognize that. But that didn't hurt my feelings, so you needed to dealve into the decrepit state of my personal life, as you see it. That's such crap, honestly, and its desperate.

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Orincoro
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quote:
Originally posted by Samprimary:
The reactor is self-sustaining. The core has warmed up and the thread now generates net drama output off of reactions alone. We no longer need to supply it with anything. Soon, we will online it to the grid. A bright, shining future full of cheap, clean, accessible drama. Enough to power whole forums. Thanks to what we have achieved here, none shall feel beyond drama because of their means. No longer will there be hovels and ghettos where drama exists only as a spectacle and a plaything of others. No child shall want for drama simply because of their upbringing.

The Israelis could always try to take down the forum with a pernicious virus....
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Stone_Wolf_
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It was not a disingenuous statement, to let you know what I thought of you, and let you know that ultimately I do not care what you think. That said, I am able to keep my opinions about you to myself. Perhaps you should try and do the same in the future if you wish to maintain a non-personal interaction level.
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Orincoro
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As I say, I don't speculated about your personal life. I don't do it because it's an act of unmaking to do that to a person. There is no response to it. It is wrong.
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Stone_Wolf_
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Other then mentioning remembering your nationality, your marital status, profession and that you live abroad, I didn't really say much about your "personal life". I openly speculated about your personality and motivations, as did you of me, but I was nice enough to at least openly state I was speculating, where as you did not.

[ May 06, 2012, 04:04 PM: Message edited by: Stone_Wolf_ ]

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Samprimary
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quote:
Other then mentioning remembering your nationality, your marital status, profession and that you live abroad, I didn't really say much about your "personal life".
I just read this four times in a row to make sure
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Stone_Wolf_
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To be clear, I didn't say anything -about- those things positive or negative, merely mentioned them as remembered facts in passing. There was no speculation about those statistics.
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Orincoro
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quote:
Originally posted by Samprimary:
quote:
Other then mentioning remembering your nationality, your marital status, profession and that you live abroad, I didn't really say much about your "personal life".
I just read this four times in a row to make sure
I think he honestly believes that this scans with what he said. I don't know why he believes this, but I think he does.
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Samprimary
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quote:
Originally posted by Stone_Wolf_:
To be clear, I didn't say anything -about- those things positive or negative, merely mentioned them as remembered facts in passing. There was no speculation about those statistics.

not trying to take sides here (dance puppets dance) but ... what.
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Stone_Wolf_
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**Is a puppet, who dances, dances, dances.**

Here is an (fictitious) example of something said which might qualify as a "utterly careless assessments the quality of their personal lives" or "speculating about someone's personal life".

  • Clearly having been divorced and childless, no women could stand you or to carry your child.

Here is an example of a simple fact, with no judgment at all.

  • American. Male.

See the difference? I most definitely speculated about Orincoro's motivations, and the reasons he is such a first class jerk here, but I did not try and read into his personal life. I merely mentioned some remembered facts, without any condemnation or attempt to use them as evidence for a theory.

Orincoro very definitely delved into my motivations when he said (and for the record, he started it, -and- stated it as fact not speculation):

quote:
I am naive and operate under the assumption that that which I do not understand is bad
I find simplistic solutions gratifying, and I feel that they make me look reasonable and fair
I operate under the assumption that currently complex and intricate legal systems find the root of that complexity not in the practical necessities of governing using an imperfect framework, but instead because the framework itself is "too complicated." And i see an easy solution to the complicated problems of governance in a broad, little thought out reform.
simplicity appeals to me, and I attempt to make this appear a strength, rather than a weakness or a total lack of depth.

But because I happened to simply mention in passing some remembered facts about him, -I- made it personal?

The above quote is so drenched in negative and false assumptions stated as facts, so dripping with disdain, so utterly rude and unnecessary it can only be classified as a personal attack. Where as my response which is apparently so very offensive because it is about his "personal life" flat out stated it was either extrapolation or pure fiction, and never really got that personal.

Is Oroncoro ashamed of being single, living abroad, being a US citizen, or being an educator so much that the mere mention of such trivial details should be considered a personal attack? And if not, what was it that made his unprovoked sucker punch kosher, and my response to his aggression somehow over the line?

If you can't stand the heat, don't light the someone else's kitchen on fire no reason. Blech!

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Samprimary
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quote:
But because I happened to simply mention in passing some remembered facts about him, -I- made it personal?
Yes. Yes you did. Your post with that stuff in it is like the stark raving quintessence of makin' stuff personal. I am sorry if you do not see that.

I mean okay the rest of this is just all straightforward bossanova Let's-Go-Fight-On-The-Internet and yes he took a potshot at you first but yes you are manifestly missing the extra special personal-motivations-armchair-psychosession you added to the conversation.

tl;dr - http://i.imgur.com/zS2No.gif

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Stone_Wolf_
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I am missing it...it's true. Orincoro has made it a special mission life to take very personal (if ridiculously comically assumptive) sh*ts on my head. If that does not invite some return volleys in your book, then we frequent different libraries.
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TomDavidson
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Oh, would you two please grow up?! I mean, seriously, get a room and have each other's Spite Babies already.
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Stone_Wolf_
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Gross!
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Rakeesh
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Heh. While as often happens I thought Orincoro was being unnecessarily insulting and demeaning in his tone, the notions that you a) don't care what he thinks or says and b) that you didn't 'say much about his personal life' are laughable, Stone_Wolf. I mean they're just absurd.

Clearly you do care what he thinks and says, or you wouldn't have said you didn't multiple times now. When someone actually doesn't care about what another person does and says, the indicator for that is they don't care. They simply don't respond, or else they don't respond directly. Almost never on the Internet when someone SAYS they don't care is it actually true, and the likelihood drops as the utterances repeat.

As for the personal life thing...c'mon. Imagine for a moment, say, that I said even some of those things about you-that I hoped you were a good father but I'd be surprised, that your reasons for behaving the way you do are a deep-seated emotional impotence, and that I hope your rudeness online is an effective outlet but again I doubt it...are you really going to sit here and claim you wouldn't regard that as speculation on your personal life?

You can walk this back, man. Orincoro is often quite a jackass, and all it takes is a, "MAN, he pissed me off, to the extent I said some things I shouldn't have. My bad." We all do that. It's cool. More than a few feel about the guy in many of the ways you do.

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Stone_Wolf_
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Damn it Rakeesh, I hate it when you get all calm and rational, because then I'm suckered into talking to you...again...

Heck, I don't mind being considered the bad guy in this drama...I don't buy it for a second, but one thing is for certain, I'm very comfortable not apologizing to Orincoro. He made his bed, acting the way he has for a very long time, and if he doesn't like the end result he should take a good hard look at his actions.

I guess where the disconnect is is this: I've always felt his attacks on me were personal, so I feel fully justified in what I said. I wasn't trying to unmake him as a human being, there are below the belt blows I held in check. I meant those comments to be personal not to harm him in his actual life.

Bullies must learn that when they mess with people they risk getting hurt themselves, and this particular bully has operated with impunity for too long. He got a smack on the nose with a rolled up newspaper. He deserved it. In spades.

And while your point about the phrase "I don't care" popping up too many times is a good indicator of it being not true is a fair point, in this case, I really don't. Bullies hold a special place in my heart...the stuff he says has no impact on me, but the fact that he is -trying- to bully, makes me want to squash him like a bug. I'd have the same response if I saw him doing this crap to someone else.

The silver lining is that Samp got his drama...and his title is bang on!

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Samprimary
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quote:
Originally posted by TomDavidson:
Oh, would you two please grow up?!

No! NO! You'll ruin EVERYTHING
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Rakeesh
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Oh, yes, a very clever ruse on my part, I suppose.

quote:
Heck, I don't mind being considered the bad guy in this drama...I don't buy it for a second, but one thing is for certain, I'm very comfortable not apologizing to Orincoro. He made his bed, acting the way he has for a very long time, and if he doesn't like the end result he should take a good hard look at his actions.

I didn't say that. You may've missed the at least two times I said pretty harsh things about Orincoro as well. That said, I think it's pretty naive on your part to think he doesn't like the end result of his posting style. He has said, openly, that he posts this way on purpose. Presumably that means he enjoys the results-including, perhaps especially, having one of his most frequent detractors take such a contradictory, patently absurd stance as you are here, loudly proclaiming that you don't care and that you didn't comment on his personal life.

I mean, seriously. It's clear he doesn't like you, or at least doesn't like the way you think. So you give him a nice heaping helping of one of his critics behaving in amusingly irrational ways. That's only going to be fun for him.

quote:
I guess where the disconnect is is this: I've always felt his attacks on me were personal, so I feel fully justified in what I said. I wasn't trying to unmake him as a human being, there are below the belt blows I held in check. I meant those comments to be personal not to harm him in his actual life.

Bullies must learn that when they mess with people they risk getting hurt themselves, and this particular bully has operated with impunity for too long. He got a smack on the nose with a rolled up newspaper. He deserved it. In spades.

Dude. Listen to yourself. By posting in a forum, you were showing a bully there are consequences for his actions. That's a pretty self-serving, provably false claim. Do you imagine even for a second that Orincoro's behavior will change? That you've actually hurt him or made him reconsider his posting style? That you've somehow made a stand against bullies? You didn't. There's pretty much two ways to make an effective stand against 'bullies' in an environment such as this: one, whistle his posts; two, thoroughly ignore him, or don't respond to him except to poke fun, but still not actually engaging him.

This is something of a habit of yours now in interacting with him, casting yourself as the victim and he as the bully. It's silly. You each have exactly as much power as the other.

quote:
And while your point about the phrase "I don't care" popping up too many times is a good indicator of it being not true is a fair point, in this case, I really don't. Bullies hold a special place in my heart...the stuff he says has no impact on me, but the fact that he is -trying- to bully, makes me want to squash him like a bug. I'd have the same response if I saw him doing this crap to someone else.

Setting aside the question of whether or not this has even close to 'squashed him like a bug' (and believe me, it absolutely hasn't), what about the fact that reactions such as yours only encourage the kind of behavior you want to see reduced?

Leads one to think that perhaps your righteous stand against bullies isn't quite what it seems, frankly.

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Samprimary
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Also I am going to note here in some uncharacteristic seriousness, mr stone wolf:

when you make a statement that presents this:

quote:
Bullies hold a special place in my heart...the stuff he says has no impact on me, but the fact that he is -trying- to bully, makes me want to squash him like a bug.
- the stuff he says has no impact on me
- the stuff he says drives the desire to do X

please think about this inherent contradiction!

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Raymond Arnold
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quote:
The mirror is the fall, the trap, and a jerk
I just wanted to say the latest thread title is incredibly hilarious. That is all.
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Stone_Wolf_
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quote:
Originally posted by Rakeesh:
By posting in a forum, you were showing a bully there are consequences for his actions. That's a pretty self-serving, provably false claim.

Not following you, but since it's provably false, you can prove it and then I'll get what mean, right?

quote:
Setting aside the question of whether or not this has even close to 'squashed him like a bug' (and believe me, it absolutely hasn't), what about the fact that reactions such as yours only encourage the kind of behavior you want to see reduced?
First I said "it made me want to squish him like a bug" not claiming I did. Second, if it turns out you are right and (so far) it hasn't at all...then I will have to change tactics.


quote:
Originally posted by Samp:
please think about this inherent contradiction!

It's not an inherent contradiction...think of it this way, an angry man comes up to you and starts yelling loudly in your face in a language you don't understand. That he is yelling and angry at you is something that is unpleasant and that you want to stop, but his words are gibberish to you, so -what he is saying- is not upsetting to you at all. -What- Orincoro says doesn't upset me. That he is openly, without provocation, hostile to me does.
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TomDavidson
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quote:
Not following you, but since it's provably false, you can prove it and then I'll get what mean, right?
By posting, you are not demonstrating "consequences" to a "bully;" you are merely feeding a troll. Your anger is his reward.
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Stone_Wolf_
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Idea for next thread title:
quote:
The Avenjerks (Spoilers within)

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Rakeesh
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What Tom said, basically. You are accusing Orincoro repeatedly of being a bullying troll. I very much doubt you don't know what that word means. What do trolls do, Stone_Wolf? They deliberately antagonize people to draw out amusing drama and anger for them to laugh at. That's what is provably false, and it cannot have failed to occur to you either-it's just that for some reason, Orincoro isn't just a troll to you.

The truth is he is a troll who has successfully trolled you, unless you're going to suggest that you would tell someone else being trolled that the way to handle it is to give in to that desire to 'squash them like a bug', to give as good as they get, as though it will actually accomplish anything.

Perhaps you're telling yourself you're making a stand against bullies, but that doesn't change the fact that you're not. It's like...heh, that scene in The Wizard of Oz when, on the Yellow Brick Road, Dorothy and Scarecrow encounter those mean apple trees. They're hungry though, and want something to eat-and as it turns out, the trees are pretty unlikable anyway. So looking at their dislike for the trees and their hunger, they start talking trash and the apple trees throw their own apples at them. They grab up a bunch and stroll on their way.

That's what you're doing, but you ain't getting any apples. That's what Orincoro is doing, and he IS.

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MrSquicky
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Stoney,
You should also realize that we all know what Ori is. To me, he's the least of Hatrack's Angry Teen Boy Squad because it seems like the only thing he has is his pseudo-intellectual hostility. The others may lack the maturity/self-control to act differently and at least one I'm pretty sure chooses to act that way. But they have other stuff going on. With Ori, I don't think he's got anything else to offer.

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Stone_Wolf_
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I'm enjoying this! Does that make me the troll?
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TomDavidson
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No. It just makes you someone who's willing to bore other people for the sake of your own enjoyment. And a bit of a liar.

(For the record, I disagree with Squicky's assessment of Orincoro.)

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Stone_Wolf_
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Why a liar? I never said I was a hurt cringing victim...I said I didn't care, and I don't. And putting some chin music on someone who richly deserves it is rewarding.
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MrSquicky
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I haven't been around much lately. It's possible he's changed. Back when I read here often, I was always very unimpressed at the difference between what he represented himself as knowing versus what he actually knew and how he always seemed to back up his expertise of ignorance with hostility.
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MrSquicky
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Stoney,
quote:
And putting some chin music on someone who richly deserves it is rewarding.
I have a somewhat different perspective. To me, you are engaging in juvenile squabbling that ends up rewarding Ori with exactly what he wants. To me, that wouldn't be rewarding and it makes you look foolish.
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Stone_Wolf_
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Everyone seems to think that Orincoro is getting what he wants, when clearly Samp is the one getting what he wants.

And all in good fun. Why shouldn't I enjoy it? I made it clear I wasn't mad, right from the get go.

Drama-capacitors engaged! Set phasors to comedy!

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Samprimary
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quote:
Originally posted by Stone_Wolf_:
Drama-capacitors engaged! Set phasors to comedy!

you are old
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Samprimary
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I had better be the front man for this angry teen boy squad or whatever. I am not going to be able to deal with if I don't have a summary categorical identity in this fashion.
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Stone_Wolf_
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Turning 32 this month...not -that- old.
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