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» Hatrack River Forum » Active Forums » Books, Films, Food and Culture » Turning Our Kids Gay: Nature or Nurture (Page 2)

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Author Topic: Turning Our Kids Gay: Nature or Nurture
Synesthesia
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That does make sense, Aros... Stereotypes are annoying. Pride parades are fun, but a way of letting down ones hair so you have topless biker chicks and dudes wearing speedos and such. Then everyone has to go back to wearing respectable clothes.

I haven't been to one in years. Maybe next year I should go to Boston's pride... Boston is a bit more tame than NYC is.

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Aros
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Tangentially, I took my kids to a Unitarian Universality church for about a year, and the pastor was a lesbian woman. She was a positive gay role model, and I didn't feel awkward explaining her lifestyle to my children. I can't think of a positive gay role model on television -- at least for pre-teens.
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Stephan
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quote:
Originally posted by Synesthesia:
That does make sense, Aros... Stereotypes are annoying. Pride parades are fun, but a way of letting down ones hair so you have topless biker chicks and dudes wearing speedos and such. Then everyone has to go back to wearing respectable clothes.

I haven't been to one in years. Maybe next year I should go to Boston's pride... Boston is a bit more tame than NYC is.

So the parades are no different than renaissance fairs, comic-cons, or Jimmy Buffett tailgating?
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Stone_Wolf_
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All this gay/straight fighting to me is silly.

For me, it has nothing at all to do with if you like boys or girls or both. It has and always be a question of freedom.

America's ideal of freedom is one which I hold very dear. Of all the ideals that make America a special place, it is freedom which is the core concept. Do as you please as long as you don't hurt people.

For those who feel it is their right to judge if someone should be able to love whom they wish or not I say, get out of our homes, out of our lives, out of our hearts, you have no right to decide these things and you never have. Be happy and free and let the rest go.

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Lyrhawn
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quote:
Originally posted by Aros:
On a side note, I don't have a problem with violence marketed to kids. Is that odd? Maybe it's because I'm a product of the eighties. But in my anecdotal experience, it's more often the kids who weren't allowed to see violence / R-rated movies that are curious and act it out. I believe that children exposed frankly to media violence learn more ably to distinguish between fantasy and reality.

Maybe it's because I'm Utah and see this extremism, where Mormon kids have to hide violent movies like porn.

Haha. iCarly is a little risque. But Terminator 2 is cool. I do think that kids are more likely to emulate sex than either violence or language.

Honestly, I'd be more worried about violence than sex.

Watching Dawson's Creek didn't make me want to have sex in high school. Boobs made me want sex in high school.

On the other hand, glorifying violence and inuring children to it is highly problematic in my eyes. There's already far too much violence in our culture. Perhaps if it was more shocking, we'd do more about it.

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Synesthesia
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Violence is way worse than a boob or two.
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Blayne Bradley
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quote:
Originally posted by Aros:
Nope. As I said, characters (or people) that happen to be black are fine. But I consider characters that are nothing but cardboard cutouts for urban stereotypes or innuendo are wrong for my children -- black or white.

I think that Glee and Modern Family use being black as a hook. Bernie Mac and Will Smith don't. I'm all for promoting inclusion. Just not glorification. I guess the difference can be subtle for those promoting their agendas rather than focusing on the subject at hand.

Hrmmm....
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MattP
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Interestingly, violent crime (including rape) has been decreasing over the past few decades during which the violence in media and the quantity and accessibility of pornography has increased dramatically. I'm not making a causality argument, but perhaps pushing back a little bit on the causality arguments that are being made.
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Blayne Bradley
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I'm pretty sure studies have been made that show a causative link between the two of where greater access has seen a decrease in crimes of that nature.
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Aros
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quote:
Originally posted by Blayne Bradley:
quote:
Originally posted by Aros:
Nope. As I said, characters (or people) that happen to be black are fine. But I consider characters that are nothing but cardboard cutouts for urban stereotypes or innuendo are wrong for my children -- black or white.

I think that Glee and Modern Family use being black as a hook. Bernie Mac and Will Smith don't. I'm all for promoting inclusion. Just not glorification. I guess the difference can be subtle for those promoting their agendas rather than focusing on the subject at hand.

Hrmmm....
I see what you did there!

It makes a good point. Blacks on television were pretty much stereotypes until the Jeffersons. What we really need are shows about characters who happen to be gay. Will and Grace probably came as close as any so far, but there was only one gay character (Will) who wasn't a caricature.

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Stephan
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quote:
Originally posted by Aros:
quote:
Originally posted by Blayne Bradley:
quote:
Originally posted by Aros:
Nope. As I said, characters (or people) that happen to be black are fine. But I consider characters that are nothing but cardboard cutouts for urban stereotypes or innuendo are wrong for my children -- black or white.

I think that Glee and Modern Family use being black as a hook. Bernie Mac and Will Smith don't. I'm all for promoting inclusion. Just not glorification. I guess the difference can be subtle for those promoting their agendas rather than focusing on the subject at hand.

Hrmmm....
I see what you did there!

It makes a good point. Blacks on television were pretty much stereotypes until the Jeffersons. What we really need are shows about characters who happen to be gay. Will and Grace probably came as close as any so far, but there was only one gay character (Will) who wasn't a caricature.

There is a new show from the creators of Will and Grace, based on their own life. A straight guy and his best friend since high school who happens to be gay. May fit what you are looking for.
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Shanna
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Do NOT watch Partners. I don't know if the second episode is better than the premiere but most reviews said it only gets worse. It's painfully offensive and the humor is terrible. A better way to describe the show would be "a man tries to maintain a working friendship with his narcissistic childhood friend."
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Synesthesia
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I figured it would be like that. I will write a NOVEL.
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PSI Teleport
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Only slightly off-topic, but I read the article Aros linked and I gotta admit I don't know how the parents can be sure the son is gay. Just sounds like a fashion-loving kid who's going all fanboy on a favored character. Wishing the guy was his boyfriend would sound more gay to me if it was coming from a kid who'd gone through puberty and come out on the other side. This sounds more like fantastical wanderings from a kid with a great imagination.

I guess...I've had girl-crushes like that, too. Hard-core ones. But my feelings for women are more romantic than sexual. I don't consider myself to be gay at all. *shrug*

ETA: Maybe it sounds naive on my part. I just...think the parents were quick to jump to a conclusion.

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Aros
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quote:
Originally posted by PSI Teleport:
Only slightly off-topic, but I read the article Aros linked and I gotta admit I don't know how the parents can be sure the son is gay. Just sounds like a fashion-loving kid who's going all fanboy on a favored character. Wishing the guy was his boyfriend would sound more gay to me if it was coming from a kid who'd gone through puberty and come out on the other side. This sounds more like fantastical wanderings from a kid with a great imagination.

I guess...I've had girl-crushes like that, too. Hard-core ones. But my feelings for women are more romantic than sexual. I don't consider myself to be gay at all. *shrug*

ETA: Maybe it sounds naive on my part. I just...think the parents were quick to jump to a conclusion.

Even more reason that they might be wrong to allow him to wear a blatantly gay shirt. And then write about it on the internet? I'm pretty sure that she's using an innocent child to push her agenda.
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Synesthesia
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I don't know. There are some people who know they are gay from that age, but, she probably should be a bit more balanced. He might have to come out as straight. I still think it's sweet how she doesn't freak out.


But, if you wanted to get spoony and romantic with women though...

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narrativium
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quote:
Originally posted by Aros:
] What we really need are shows about characters who happen to be gay. Will and Grace probably came as close as any so far, but there was only one gay character (Will) who wasn't a caricature.

Warehouse 13. Although I have the suspicion that they wrote Agent Jinks as gay because they didn't want the possibility of sexual tension between him a Claudia.
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Shanna
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White Collar has a secondary character that is a lesbian.

And don't judge me for this, but some friends got me hooked on MTV's "Teen Wolf." It gives me massive Buffy nostalgia and its from Jeff Davis, the man behind "Criminal Minds." He's gay himself and one of the things I love about the show is that its set in a universe where being gay or straight is completely a non-issue. There's a minor character named Danny who is gay and he's a jock and best friends with the captain of the lacrosse team. If I remember correctly, they revealed his sexual preference on the show when one of the characters asked about his boyfriend. And it was handled just as if he'd been a straight character with a girlfriend. There's a later episode that is set in a gay dance club and the two main characters, of course, have a moment where they're hit on and bought drinks from other men. They genuinely take it as a compliment and move on with the rest of the storyline.

They've also been hinting that the main character's best friend (the comedic sidekick) may be bisexual, based on dialogue and discussion from the cast and crew. Its still only speculation but I know I would be thrilled to see such a lovable and respected character (ADD and straight-A student) come out as bi.

Now, the show is most certainly geared towards teens and heavily implies sexual relationships between the straight love interests, but I applaud the writers for not going the typical "very special episode" route and really just presenting an image of a world where a person can be gay without fear of prejudice

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dkw
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quote:
Originally posted by PSI Teleport:
Only slightly off-topic, but I read the article Aros linked and I gotta admit I don't know how the parents can be sure the son is gay. Just sounds like a fashion-loving kid who's going all fanboy on a favored character. Wishing the guy was his boyfriend would sound more gay to me if it was coming from a kid who'd gone through puberty and come out on the other side. This sounds more like fantastical wanderings from a kid with a great imagination.

I guess...I've had girl-crushes like that, too. Hard-core ones. But my feelings for women are more romantic than sexual. I don't consider myself to be gay at all. *shrug*

ETA: Maybe it sounds naive on my part. I just...think the parents were quick to jump to a conclusion.

I didn't get the feeling from the article that if his next crush is on a girl his mom would say, "No, no, son, you're gay."
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scholarette
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I seem to recall a study looking at violence in children where they exposed kindergartners to either violent tv or like dora. The kids afterwards played based on the show they watched, violent or nice. Same set up as the infamous sponge bob experiment (kids were more hyper after watching spongebob than calm shows- shocking- but then the news reported that as spongebob causes add which is not the same as the show temporarily winding the kids up).

The have also looked at availability of porn and the rate of rape and more porn leads to less rape. Oh, another one is that when there are violent movies out, violent crime decreases- so the potential criminal goes out and watches Saw instead of beating people up. And the potential rapist turns on the computer rather than finding a victim.

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kmbboots
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quote:
Originally posted by kmbboots:
Whether or not there is too much sex on TV is a good question. What I object to is the notion that because a particular program has gay characters or portrays homosexual relationships it is somehow more about sex.

The New Normal is, I admit, a bit over the top preachy, but it is not even a little bit about homosexual sex so far. In fact, the only characters who have had sex so far this season (that I recall) are the conservative grandmother and the soon to be ex-husband of the surrogate.
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