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Author Topic: The events in Texas tonight (6/25) are disgraceful parody
Samprimary
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"Okay fellow republicans. so we are like waaaaay in trouble right, haha, like literally every non geriatric person on earth thinks that we are like totally crazy bad luddite nutbags who hate women and minorities. we need a way to fix this. we need a way to not be complete poison to pretty much everyone who will be voting after all of today's old people die."

"yo we could try, like, making it national news that we are trying to ram a crazy nuts anti abortion bill through the texas congress and there will be like a bunch of puttering old white men trying to shout down a girl who's filibustering us to prevent the passage of the bill."

"interesting, interesting. tell me more. will this bill be like so odious that literally even something like 80% of texas doesn't want it or something"

"yeah, yeah, something like that"

"What if after this becomes like one of the most watched and memorable legislative events EVER and people just spent hours watching this taken all the way to midnight and some hovering old dudes object to things like back braces, let's like, pass the bill after midnight after the filibuster successfully makes it to the end of the day and just give a big fat finger to everyone"

"YEAH. That would be awesome. That wouldn't make us look bad at all. OH DUDE we should be doing this after we introduce a bunch of anti-minority-voting laws we previously weren't allowed to do by the voting rights act, two hours after the SCOTUS conservatives strike down really important anti-racial-discrimination parts of them."

"YEAH LETS DO THIS"

AND SO THE REPUBLICANS WERE SAVED FROM DECLINE INTO HATED IRRELEVANCE

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MattP
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So the Republicans backdated the timestamp on the record about 30 minutes after it was recorded as 6/26. Now it says 6/25. I have both versions of the page up right now.
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Elison R. Salazar
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The sooner the Republican party is discarded onto the ash heap of history the better off the whole world will be, and then split the Democrats into something resembling a left wing part and something center right.

Nothing can save it now, I have a friend who insists that to embrace young people all they need to do is embrace "tech" and a freer internet and stuff.

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Samprimary
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quote:
Originally posted by MattP:
So the Republicans backdated the timestamp on the record about 30 minutes after it was recorded as 6/26. Now it says 6/25. I have both versions of the page up right now.

Cowards and fools.
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MattP
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And it's dead!
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Samprimary
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It bounced back and forth from passed to in contest to passed to in contest to passed to in contest to dead.

Amazing, amazing. They really did try to break the law to get that bill passed, but there were just too many people watching.

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AchillesHeel
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The polls are in, and it looks quite the upset in the Worst State in the Union rankings.

Here are the new top three.

1. Texas
2. Florida
3. Arizona

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TomDavidson
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See, while I certainly think all three of those states suck, I think low population artificially suppresses votes for Kansas, Idaho, and Mississippi.
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Obama
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Arizona is...Arizona.

It's conservative, but not reliably so. For example, the first time an anti-gay marriage public referendum went up, it was defeated on libertarian grounds. (The first time an anti-gay marriage law had been defeated in a public referendum in the nation.) Of course, when the second attempt cleaned up the language so that only gays were affected and civil unions were still allowed, it passed.

The old white people population is continually refreshed with retirees moving here, and that's why thugs like Arpaio tend to get reelected. But there are lots of younger people who move here, too, and a fast growing young Hispanic population from all of the immigration. There are definitely more liberals in the state than most people give it credit for, and in the last few national elections it's looked closer to purple then red.

The state legislature is for the large part embarassing. But that is true of many states. The problem is that the majority of voters are center right. They'd take a moderate candidate, but the Republican machine invariably ends up putting up some wingnut. Their only options being the wingnut and the liberal, they'll usually go with the wingnut, because he has "values."

Even the governer, whom I usually hate, has her moments. The R dominated legislature naturally wanted nothing to do opting into the new healthcare laws, but Brewer is vetoing any budgets until the legislature folds on this one. If she can hold firm on that, I'll forgive her everything else, even the idiotic headless bodies comments.

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Samprimary
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The worst state in the union is Mississippi. It may be overtaken by Louisiana in the upcoming years, but for right now it is still slightly worse than its neighbors in the bible belt in terms of Extremely Depressing Data Of All Kinds and is thus the worst state.

FUN FACTS ABOUT MISSISSIPPI

- literally all of the socioeconomic data is terrible
- no seriously

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AchillesHeel
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Hello... Obama. Kay.

I'm a born and raised Arizonan, which is why I was so quick to throw my home under the bus. AZ seems like it may become the most desperate battle between the Baby Boomers and Generation Y (information generation, digital generation, whatever.) Old white people are by and far the majority when it comes to the voting populace, but they don't reflect the values of the state or the states history at all. Although the disparities in education and income are nothing new, in fact it's a part of the social system that allowed our state to reach the economic and standard of living status that it has. Being born poor here is an easy way to stay poor and undereducated, even the dispersion of public school funding in the Valley is preferential to the rich. The public train system to help people live and work in the Valley without a personal vehicle doesn't extend into Scottsdale for a reason.

Generation Y is outnumbering Generation X, but in a place like Arizona we still have to fight for basic moral decency against our grand-parents. At least for little while.

Somehow we got Kristen Synema (openly bi, non-religious) into the senate, she was even sworn in on a copy of the constitution instead of a bible. I still don't know how that happened but it makes me optimistic.

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Obama
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Hello...AchillesHeel. O.

You're right that Arizona has problems, but it is not a state full of rednecks and racists, which all too often seems to be the impression from out of state. It's just that, for now, those types slightly outnumber the others. The nonreligious, bisexual senator is an example. She was elected by one of the numerous Democratic districts.

Arizona also has a semi-nonpartisan redistricting committee. Two R's, two D's, one independent. Also passed by public referendum.

Arizonans may be more conservative then liberal, but that's changing more and more as the population becomes more varied and younger. They also have an independent streak that can lead to surprising results sometimes.

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Obama
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Was just reading up about how the filibuster ended. Repubs thought they could vote to end her filibuster right before the deadline, then when the squashed it on a BS technicality the protestors made such a commotion that the Senate couldn't get through the voting procedure in time. Too many cameras around to pretend it was a few minutes earlier, too. Overall, a great night.

Of course, while I enjoy political statements and sticking a thumb in the eye of idiots, this is a short lived victory. All Perry has to do is call another special session. Or wait for the next legislature. Texas women best set aside some coathangers.

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MattP
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Perry has announced that he'll be calling another special session.
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Samprimary
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And the conservatives are going to redraw districts to get rid of wendy with gerrymandering.

Sounds about right!

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Misha McBride
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I wish we had the resources to move out of this state, for my daughters' sakes. [Frown]
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steven
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quote:
Originally posted by Samprimary:
The worst state in the union is Mississippi. It may be overtaken by Louisiana in the upcoming years, but for right now it is still slightly worse than its neighbors in the bible belt in terms of Extremely Depressing Data Of All Kinds and is thus the worst state.

FUN FACTS ABOUT MISSISSIPPI

- literally all of the socioeconomic data is terrible
- no seriously

People don't freeze to death there as much as, say, New England. Also, not everyone from Mississippi is a stupid bigot. I daresay you could find at least a few hundred native Mississippians who could outdo you at Scrabble, IQ tests, Jeopardy, etc.. There's a bell curve in every state. Not everyone in a dumber state is dumber than everyone in a smarter state. There's significant overlap, because we're all human. It's not like comparing humans to clams, or something. Of course, to you it is, because you dehumanize everyone from the South, but perhaps life will teach you some compassion. You're young yet.
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Samprimary
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Since life has indeed taught me compassion, I will go find a foam puppet, and I will make it say "Everyone from Mississippi is a stupid bigot" and "Literally nobody in Mississippi could outdo me at Scrabble, IQ tests, or Jeapordy" and "There is no bell curve in Mississippi."

Then I will assume that your post was actually addressing the puppet, and that way, because now the puppet said those things, there was at least something saying anything that relates to what you were trying to dress me down for. And that way, we all save face, and nobody has the opportunity to say "Yo steven that has nothing to do with anything sam was saying"

Let none say that I am not merciful. I'm young yet.

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steven
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quote:
Originally posted by Samprimary:
Since life has indeed taught me compassion, I will go find a foam puppet, and I will make it say "Everyone from Mississippi is a stupid bigot" and "Literally nobody in Mississippi could outdo me at Scrabble, IQ tests, or Jeapordy" and "There is no bell curve in Mississippi."

Then I will assume that your post was actually addressing the puppet, and that way, because now the puppet said those things, there was at least something saying anything that relates to what you were trying to dress me down for. And that way, we all save face, and nobody has the opportunity to say "Yo steven that has nothing to do with anything sam was saying"

Let none say that I am not merciful. I'm young yet.

Dress you down? No. I was priming you for learning something in the future, about remembering to humanize people you don't understand. I save "dressing down" for people who I believe might be able to (and really need to) immediately learn something. I don't think you're able to, or really need to learn this lesson, immediately.

Dude, really, your attitude toward Southerners is like a 6-year-old talking about the "boogerman" (bogeyman), as redneck grandmas call him. Seriously, we're not all illiterate tobacco-chewing gun owners who wish for the good old days of Jim Crow, lynchings, etc..

Do not bullshit me further, else I may die of asbestos gelos. In fact, I don't even know why you're trying to make yourself seem less out-of-touch than you actually are. Everyone who bothers to read your posts knows EXACTLY what you think of the South. And it's OK. The world's not going to end just because you make an ass of yourself every time you talk about the South. Really. I just thought I'd bring it up, partially because my best friend's ex-wife is so like you in your attitudes. When he moved her down to the mountains of SW Virginia, I think she was afraid we'd lynch her or something. She's a Wisconsinite, but her attitudes are very "ONOZ the rednecks are gonna GIT me", just like yours. ROFL

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Samprimary
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quote:
Seriously, we're not all illiterate tobacco-chewing gun owners who wish for the good old days of Jim Crow, lynchings, etc..
Sam puppet, yo, come back, we need you again.

"HI I'M SAM PUPPET. I LITERALLY THINK THE ENTIRE SOUTH IS FULL OF ONE HUNDRED PERCENT TERRIBLE PEOPLE, AND THIS WAS TOTALLY MY POINT"

oh! okay. Yeah before I knew you said that I would have thought steven was talking out of his arse and was misunderstanding criticism of a part of the country which has the absolute most stunningly troubling socioeconomic situation and the most backwards social policies and the worst cultural legacies in the united states and lags behind the rest of the country in pretty much all of the important issues: health, child welfare, economic opportunity, life expectancy, and the protection of marginalized and oppressed classes, etc. Before you said that and became a valid target for, like, anything he was talking about, I would have said he was brazenly but typically misreading a legitimate criticism about the south to mean a bunch of absolutist stuff that this does not at all necessarily imply and which I don't even have to dignify with a response.

"NO, HE'S RIGHT, I JUST LITERALLY THINK I AM SMARTER AND BETTER THAN ANYONE IN THE SOUTH AND AM TOTALLY AN OUT OF TOUCH CARTOON CARICATURE. ALSO STEVEN IS HIP AND WITH IT, YOU YOUTHS COULD LEARN A LOT FROM HIS WISDOM"

Ohhh. okay then. Well, now that you've clarified that, I'll just assume Steven was talking to you, because his patronizing advice becomes, well, relevant. Thanks dude!

"NO PROBLEM, REAL SAM"


quote:
Everyone who bothers to read your posts knows EXACTLY what you think of the South.
This isn't true; you can't say everyone who reads my posts knows this. You managed to misconstrue my position on the south into an uninformed strawman, despite presumably having read my posts.
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Misha McBride
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Mississippi really is terrible though.
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jebus202
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I have enjoyed Puppet Sam's contribution to this discussion immensely. That is all.
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TomDavidson
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quote:
Seriously, we're not all illiterate tobacco-chewing gun owners who wish for the good old days of Jim Crow, lynchings, etc.
Are the other half of Southerners like you?
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Wingracer
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Well, I'm from the south (Virginia recently moved to Florida) and yes, I know quite a few tobacco chewing gun owners. I have yet to meet an illiterate one though. One that has trouble reading but he is also dyslexic. I have actually seen him write his name backwards before.
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capaxinfiniti
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Texas senate passes pro-life bill, the same one filibustered a few weeks ago. Governor Perry will sign it but it's sure to be challenged in the courts.
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Lyrhawn
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I have mixed feelings on the time cut off for when women can get one.

But closing down all the clinics? That's way too far, and I think the Courts will slap it down. A similar law was just slapped down in Wisconsin, because the Judge found the requirement didn't really make sense. They can only make rules like that regarding clinics if there's a genuine health necessity in doing so, but the data doesn't back them up.

I'm not sure if it'll all get struck down or just the clinic closing, but I suspect that once they are closed down, even if the Courts order them opened, it will likely mean many stay closed for financial reasons. Unless they manage to get a Court to stay the law immediately. That's a best case scenario. But I have no idea what the federal court system is like in Texas.

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Samprimary
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quote:
They can only make rules like that regarding clinics if there's a genuine health necessity in doing so, but the data doesn't back them up.
Ah, but you see, in this case the rules will save the lives of many innocent children!!!
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Lyrhawn
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Health necessity as far as the danger involved in an abortion procedure, not just the life or health of the mother or baby resulting from the condition of pregnancy.
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DustinDopps
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I don't know if this will close clinics, but I seriously doubt it. I can't speak to the motives of the people who introduced the bill, but it only requires clinics to provide the same level of care/safety as other similar-sized clinics. If interested parties want to upgrade facilities to keep the clinics open, I'm sure it will happen.

What do you make of the fact that opponents to the bill had bottles of urine and feces confiscated from them? It is assumed that they planned on throwing them, but who knows? http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2362499/Texas-senate-votes-pass-measure-toughen-abortion-laws.html

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Tstorm
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quote:
Originally posted by TomDavidson:
See, while I certainly think all three of those states suck, I think low population artificially suppresses votes for Kansas, Idaho, and Mississippi.

Hey, wait a minute, I live in Kansas.

No, you're right. There's multiple reasons I'm looking to bail out of this state. The so-called suck factor is definitely one of them.

I must admit, after watching the governor of Wisconsin for the past couple of years, I'm withholding judgment on your state, but it's not looking good.

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Rakeesh
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quote:
I don't know if this will close clinics, but I seriously doubt it. I can't speak to the motives of the people who introduced the bill, but it only requires clinics to provide the same level of care/safety as other similar-sized clinics. If interested parties want to upgrade facilities to keep the clinics open, I'm sure it will happen.
You can't speak to the motives of the folks who introduced the bill...except to entirely accept their own stated motives and disavow any notion of a further goal, something which-on both sides of this issue-would be pretty surprising (that is, a lack of a further long-term goal):

Seriously? You're asking us to believe you genuinely don't believe that Rick Perry, practically the avatar of modern American religious conservatism, was *only* so eager to sign this bill to raise standards of care in abortion clinics? C'mon, dude, I know you lean far right but give us a break.

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Samprimary
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quote:
Originally posted by DustinDopps:
I don't know if this will close clinics, but I seriously doubt it. I can't speak to the motives of the people who introduced the bill, but it only requires clinics to provide the same level of care/safety as other similar-sized clinics. If interested parties want to upgrade facilities to keep the clinics open, I'm sure it will happen.

You don't know if this will close clinics, you can't speak to the motives of the people who introduced the bill, you think it causes parity in size-matched clinics, and you are sure that people will upgrade the facilities to keep the clinics open if they want to.

There are four discrete points of on-message willful ignorance in this post alone.

I want you to guess what the motives of the people who introduced the bill are. I want you to take your best possible guess. Then I want you to tell me how likely, in comparison with that guess, "oh they just wanted to upgrade the standard of care and safety at those clinics!" is.

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Samprimary
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On the subject of a bill that will totally 100% close lots of clinics if allowed to be put into effect.

DustinDopps: I don't know if this will close clinics, but I seriously doubt it.

On the subject of a bill which is obviously introduced as a measure designed to close abortion clinics by people who want to end legal abortion in the state and in the nation.

DustinDopps: I can't speak to the motives of the people who introduced the bill.

On the subject of closures caused by serious and significant and often financially or infrastructurally non-feasible restrictions put on the clinics, intentionally, by the bill.

DustinDopps: If interested parties want to upgrade facilities to keep the clinics open, I'm sure it will happen.

On the subject of a bill which does not only require abortion clinics to provide the same level of care/safety as similar sized clinics.

DustinDopps: It only requires clinics to provide the same level of care/safety as other similar-sized clinics.

Is there a chip in your brain that voraciously deletes any information that might accidentally cause you to go off-message due to fact awareness? I mean, seriously. What is this.

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capaxinfiniti
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A double-post rant? Wow. Come back to reality. It's amazing that DustinDopps' comment can elicit such immediate disgust and vitriol from a few of the resident hard-line left-wingers. Way to foster discussion. Is your incredulity honest or theater?
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Elison R. Salazar
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Reality has a left wing bias.
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Obama
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Capax - The replies may be a bit barbed, but Dustin is being a bit obtuse here. It's obvious what the motivations of the people behind this bill are, and in a time when many clinics barely get by, it's also pretty obvious that many if not most of them are going to have to close.
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Rakeesh
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quote:
Originally posted by capaxinfiniti:
A double-post rant? Wow. Come back to reality. It's amazing that DustinDopps' comment can elicit such immediate disgust and vitriol from a few of the resident hard-line left-wingers. Way to foster discussion. Is your incredulity honest or theater?

Oh, I'm a 'resident hard-line left-winger' now? Who knew? But seriously, capax, by your response you're saying that this measure *isn't* intended to lead to closures? That it's *only* motivated by a need to increase standards of care?

For you to believe that, and thus be justified in your response, you have to believe that the Texas Congress and Governor, on a serious measure tying into abortion, have *no long term objectives* on this political issue. On abortion. A state-level group of legislators having no such objectives on that particular issue.

That's what you have to believe, to credit what Dustin said. So let's be clear: do you actually believe that, or were you simply relishing an (understandable) impulse to zing Samprimary and myself (who to be tagged a hard line left winger illustrates how very poorly you understand or read what I post, btw).

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capaxinfiniti
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quote:
Originally posted by Rakeesh:
...by your response you're saying that this measure *isn't* intended to lead to closures? That it's *only* motivated by a need to increase standards of care?

---

That's what you have to believe, to credit what Dustin said. So let's be clear: do you actually believe that, or were you simply relishing an (understandable) impulse to zing Samprimary and myself (who to be tagged a hard line left winger illustrates how very poorly you understand or read what I post, btw).

I wasn't commenting on the law or DustinDopps' opinion of it. So attempting to pin a certain position on me is ridiculous. I was calling out your overt dickishness by bringing attention to your derisive responses and faux-incredulity. I should have said more about the caustic effect such responses have on the quality of this forum.

And we don't need your political false modesty. You're further left than you believe yourself to be.

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Samprimary
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quote:
Originally posted by capaxinfiniti:
A double-post rant? Wow. Come back to reality. It's amazing that DustinDopps' comment can elicit such immediate disgust and vitriol from a few of the resident hard-line left-wingers. Way to foster discussion. Is your incredulity honest or theater?

I almost lost some of my drink at this. Which reality, exactly, do you want me to come back to? The one in which we can't say the bill is obviously designed to close abortion clinics through the deliberate imposition of unmanageable costs and expenses? The one in which the bill simply requires an equal amount of care and safety to 'similarly sized' clinics or could be seen to be intending that? The one in which clinics will close if people don't 'want' them to?

Question time for you too, then: capaxinfiniti, what is the obvious intent of the bill.


quote:
I should have said more about the caustic effect such responses have on the quality of this forum.
In which case you might want to clean up your obvious tendency towards caustic response! Or is this a reality in which you get to excuse your blatant causticness on others?
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capaxinfiniti
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quote:
Originally posted by Samprimary:
Which reality, exactly, do you want me to come back to?

---

In which case you might want to clean up your obvious tendency towards caustic response! Or is this a reality in which you get to excuse your blatant causticness on others?

Reality, as opposed to your fake world.

Oh well. I wasn't expecting you to acknowledge your behavior. Your tu quoque response was easily anticipated. For you, it's a simple - and ignoble - attempt to justify your actions.

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BlackBlade
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Let's do less of the psycho-analysis on each other, and more focusing on the merits of the ideas please.
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Samprimary
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quote:
Originally posted by capaxinfiniti:
Reality, as opposed to your fake world.

Ok, then answer my question!
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Rakeesh
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quote:
I wasn't commenting on the law or DustinDopps' opinion of it. So attempting to pin a certain position on me is ridiculous. I was calling out your overt dickishness by bringing attention to your derisive responses and faux-incredulity. I should have said more about the caustic effect such responses have on the quality of this forum.
The incredulity isn't faux. I'm genuinely surprised anyone would seriously propose the law didn't have as a component the intent to reduce abortions by leading to clinic closure. Given that, your response absolutely was a commentary on the law.

Furthermore, I can either be exhibiting false modesty or be further left than I think I am. I can hardly be both at once, yes? We could go into detail about why your analysis of my politics is bunk, but I get the feeling you don't want that, since it would quickly puncture your observation. I'm to the left of *you*. But I wonder how many 'hard line left wingers' have serious concerns about abortion, are potentially willing to tolerate capital punishment, support a strong military and (non-negligent) military action and intervention, are a big fan of applying an efficiency axe to much of government run programs...well, I think you get the idea. I suppose, though, that because I'm often critical of the GOP that must mean I'm a hard liner.

It doesn't. In this case, it means you've still got a lot of partisan hack in you.

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Samprimary
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quote:
The incredulity isn't faux. I'm genuinely surprised anyone would seriously propose the law didn't have as a component the intent to reduce abortions by leading to clinic closure. Given that, your response absolutely was a commentary on the law.
^ that.

it is so painfully obviously designed to close abortion clinics and the intent is so excruciatingly obvious that I laugh at a 'reality' that obfuscates or remains oblivious to this as a point of contention in any sense

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Samprimary
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quote:
Originally posted by Samprimary:
quote:
Originally posted by capaxinfiniti:
Reality, as opposed to your fake world.

Ok, then answer my question!

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Samprimary
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he doesn't answer.
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