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No. I really enjoyed it. I was able to go with it and see what Gavin Hood thought was the essence of the book.
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To be honest, I thought that "movie Ender" was as close to "book Ender" as one could reasonably have expected him to be.
In contrast, I was very disappointed with the changes made to Ender's character in the Ender's Game Alive audio play. "Audio Ender" seemed to me to be a whiny know-it-all who was not a very sympathetic figure at all. And without giving away any spoilers, OSC made a major change at the very end of the story that really, really didn't sit well with me. At first glance, it probably seemed minor, but it has major implications on future stories (if there were ever to be any in the audio play format).
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I thought Movie Ender was very, very close to a single moment in time of Book Ender. But Movie Ender did not grow or evolve as a character. Book Ender starts off relatively naive, young, a little reserved, wants friends, wants to be loved, and externalizes all that to a degree. By the end, he's harder, more reserved, less desiring of relationships, less open, more understanding and he's incredibly internal.
Butterfield's Ender is flat. That's not Butterfield's fault, he did a pretty good job with what he had. But he was the same character from start to finish, the only difference being at the end he'd gone through a pretty intense tutoring program.
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Vineyarddawg - I agree that movie Ender was pretty good, given the constraints of the film, but I'm surprised that the audio Ender misfired for you so badly. I quite liked the performance and writing - the overall calmness combined with moments of extreme passion really worked for me. I am also very curious about the change that would alter any future sequels in radio drama format?
Lyrhawn - very interesting. Maybe I was influenced by the movie, but tonight I was claiming in a conversation with a friend that book Ender actually doesn't change a whole lot throughout the story - but I think you point out a lot of changes I didn't remember. Thanks!
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You see the changes in small ways in the book, mostly due to Graff's attempt to isolate him. You never get that sense in the movie because he's constantly surrounded by friends who smile at him and hug him and general pal around with him. Graff said in the movie that he could never believe anyone would help him, which is a nice line to snag from the book, but clearly they didn't follow through with it in the movie.
In the book Graff goes out of his way to remove him from situations as soon as he manages to carve out a comfort zone for himself. In the movie they show Graff actually sending him Best Friend Petra to help him at a crucial juncture. That's the exact opposite of what happens in the movie. He's never isolated, so he never changes.
In the book he starts off as friendly Launchy who wants to make friends and do well. Loves his sister, gives her hugs, has tea parties, etc. But by the end, he's hard. Both times he meets Valentine after he leaves she can clearly see the huge weight that's crushing him down, the massive toll his education has taken on him. Val serves as a touchstone to remind us just how much Ender really has changed. But in the movie their interactions are exactly the same, he shows no changes. They didn't even have her tell us he changed.
Further, he never distances himself from his friends, because he never established himself as their equal. Hood's cute attempt to show he's a natural commander by having the Launchies look to him for confirmation after Dap gives the order to sleep just shows that they ALWAYS saw him as Commander Friendly, never as Ender, and THEN their commander. So that relationship never evolved. But in the book they start off often as enemies, then friends, then team mates, then rivals, and eventually as commander and subordinates. His team includes former friends, former commanders, former equals, former subordinates, all turned into a purely professional, business relationship.
They cut all that out so it seems like he never really changes, but he clearly changes in the book, even if we only see it reflected in the eyes of his various relationships with every other character in the book.
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You have it right on. And here is another thing they didn't do in the movie: need him. I. The book his brilliant leadership separates him from his toon because he teaches them, he isn't their pal, he has something no one else has...not just the endorsement of Han Solo.
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I saw the movie yesterday. I’ve read some critic reviews that were pretty harsh. Bonzo is supposed to be a pretty boy, the way certain people died was wrong, not enough focus on Peter and Valentine, etc. I have several comments on this...
I met Orson Scott Card several years ago at his annual writing class, even had lunch with him and his wife. Judging from his personality and other things he has said, I think Mr. Card himself would hate the movie. But I believe he has said that movies serve their purpose... to draw more readers.
Speaking as a new author I would agree.
As to the movie itself, I was pleasantly surprised. If you attend a movie made from a book and dont expect that content will be cut out, you have already wasted your money.
I walked in expecting this. Why? Because Ive gone through screenplay conversion with my own novel and I know its just not possible without a 12 hour movie to represent you average novel with completeness. And as an author I cant say I wanted one piece cut from my novel. I put it there for a reason.
So when looking at a movie that is made from a book I look at certain things as to be fair. Were the characters believable (acting and script)? Where the relationships portrayed well? Does the story keep to the major plot points and the over-all message of the novel?
Lets look at Hunger Games with these questions in mind. Katniss and Peeta were believable. Haymitch who I believe was a major supporting character as their mentor... not so much. The relationships (all of them) were portrayed horribly (no chemistry at all). The story didnt keep to the major plot points in fact it deviated into material from the sequel while still not covering the first books material well enough. Several things could have helped this along and would have been simple to add from the book. Rue "You mean I can eat the whole thing?" play up the chemistry between Katniss and Peeta in the cave, why didn’t the mutant dogs have human eyes revealing that they were the other contestants (making us hate Snow more)?
Next lets look at the Hobbit. This is simple. Let me ask you what kind of ego do you have to have to re-write a the plotline of a novel written by the father of fantasy himself? I almost walked out.
Now... lets circle back to Ender's Game. Peter and Valentine were shown as who they were. Peter threatened to kill Ender (psycho represented) and Valentine protected him and cared for him (caregiver represented). They showed the taking out of the monitoring device, they showed the fight with the bully in school (from Ender's point of view not revealing what really happened to the boy... so what, point was Ender could be ruthless if needed), the age of Ender was different (regrettable but understandable), Bean was there (YES! He is my fav character), Petra was there, other main characters represented, fight with Bonzo was ok but could have been better, Mazer was AWESOME and my favorite scene in the book was where he owns Ender in a fight which was showed (what better actor to play Mazer), and then I really feel the battle and the ending were represented in a good way showing the proper emotions and point. The graphics in this movie were also breath taking. Loved the battle room scenes too. All in all, while Ive rated the book a 5 out of 5 in the past I would rate the movie a 4 out of 5 realizing its a movie for crying out loud.
quote:Originally posted by millernumber1: Vineyarddawg - I agree that movie Ender was pretty good, given the constraints of the film, but I'm surprised that the audio Ender misfired for you so badly. I quite liked the performance and writing - the overall calmness combined with moments of extreme passion really worked for me. I am also very curious about the change that would alter any future sequels in radio drama format?
Lyrhawn - very interesting. Maybe I was influenced by the movie, but tonight I was claiming in a conversation with a friend that book Ender actually doesn't change a whole lot throughout the story - but I think you point out a lot of changes I didn't remember. Thanks!
Late reply... sorry, I've been out of town all weekend.
----- SPOILERS FOR THE AUDIO PLAY ------
The main issue I had was that they (OSC?) made writing The Hive Queen Valentine's idea. Ender also actually told her about the hive queen he was carrying, which he took pains not to do repeatedly in the books, but I can understand that that was a necessary concession to the fact that everything has to be revealed with words in an audio format, and OSC hates using a narrator with a passion, so one has to find some way to reveal all that's going on in Ender's mind.
But to make The Hive Queen (the book) come from an idea that Val puts into Ender's mind completely guts the whole mission that drives the rest of Ender's life, IMO. Ender felt such a sympathy with the hive queen that he spent the rest of his life finding a home on which she could repopulate her species, and wrote a book that become the founding scripture of a religion based on that sympathy and his desire to make some sort of amends for his unknowing Xenocide. (The Hegemon was written soon enough after The Hive Queen that for historical purposes they apparently were considered to have been written at the same time, but the whole sequence of events was put into motion by his desire to tell the hive queen's story.)
To be honest, I haven't fully considered Val's new angle yet, but she's now a "co-conspirator" with him in The Hive Queen, which should also raise the question of why she would follow Ender around in his mission for 15+ years, only to abandon him when she allowed herself to fall in love with somebody on one of the many worlds they visited in their search. (It's been some time since I read Speaker, but if I remember correctly, she is characterized as "allowing herself to fall in love" with Jakt.)
Ender's life story, virtually from beginning to end, is one of loneliness and pain while trying to do what he thinks is right. Having Val share in that struggle with him essentially weakens both his story and his life struggle.
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Whoops, forgot to address my other point. I don't claim that my opinion is unquestionably the authoritative one or anything, but when you compare the audioplay with the words of the books, I didn't see Ender whining or complaining nearly as much as he seems to do.
In the book, he makes a note of virtually every inequality and unfairness of which he is the victim, of course, but the face he shows to the world repeatedly is one of fierce determination and resolve. He makes terse remarks at times to the teachers, as with Major Anderson in the Battle Room when he tells Anderson that he beat him, not the opposing commanders, but in the audioplay I thought he spent an inordinate amount of time complaining and verbally sparring both in Battle School and in Command School.
I wouldn't say I disliked the audioplay as a whole, though... I agree with you that it was well-acted and generally even well-written. (And the actor playing Ender did a good job, as well... I think the fault there is with the script, not the actor.) I'm a very visual person, though, so the audio format is just not as well-suited for me. (That's why I prefer reading... I can create my own pictures!) I kept thinking to myself, "Peter didn't sound like that when he said that line!" or "Graff wouldn't have said that line that way!"
Ultimately, this might, once again, be an issue with no resolution, since the book is so focused on what's going on inside Ender's head, and how does one communicate what's going on inside Ender's head unless he says something about it? But then the fact that he said something about it changes his character, so maybe you don't have him say anything... but it's an audioplay, so he has to say something! But if he says something, then he's no longer keeping it all inside his head like he did in the book... It's an endless loop of an argument. Posts: 124 | Registered: Jun 2013
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Well, I think Val's conspiratorialness is limited to her wanting him to share the story. Viewed that way, I don't really see why she shouldn't let Ender continue alone, especially since he chooses to go to Lustinia by himself. I don't think it's really gutting to Ender's purpose to have Val as a voice in his life that provides an avenue of action for an unexpressed desire.
So, I think I can see why you felt that way, but I didn't feel a substantial difference. I would be interested to see how it would alter Ender's Game when written as his revised novel, especially since he's fully aware that he's contradicted Ender's Game and Ender in Exile in writing Ender's Game Alive (he mentioned that he's written three different versions of Ender and Val reuniting at the end of the book, so I'm pretty sure he knows that he has been changing the events and emotional tone of the scene). I would be surprised if he wasn't at least somewhat aware of the differences in these other events as well.
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It would be interesting to see how OSC resolved the question in a revised novel, if he chooses to write one. I prefer the original version of events, but that's because I'm old and resistant to change. (Ok, so not too old... but definitely resistant to change.) Posts: 124 | Registered: Jun 2013
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