We don't have cable so I haven't been able to watch it yet, though I've read some about it.
It's a new reality show about gay Mormon men and their wives and families, and how they cope with the conflict between their church and their sexual orientation. For me, it's kind of sad watching the clip above and seeing everything these guys are putting themselves through. The depression, increased suicide rates, 55-80% divorce rate, the stigma, and all the work the put into conforming, only to be alienated by the community they're trying to hard to remain in. At least they have a support group.
For me it seems incredibly unfair that someone is forced to choose between being cut off from the community they've spent their entire lives in and repressing something so fundamental about themselves, and dealing with all the psychological and emotional problems that come with that. I understand that every community has it's rules, both explicit and implicit, but it sad that the LDS have chosen one that's so essential to who you are and demanded it be suppressed.
I could give up drinking alcohol and coffee to be a Mormon, I could go to church every Sunday and go teach other people at their houses and tithe and take part in ministries. I could go on a mission, walk door to door telling people about Jesus. But I couldn't give up my wife. I couldn't give up my sexuality, it's so much an integral part of who I am that I can't imagine having to bury it away and deny every aspect of that part of my life. I couldn't marry a man and raise a family with him. So I guess this show inspires in me both a weird admiration for how strong these men are, as well as empathy and sadness for how much they've lost, how much they've missed out on, how much pain and sorrow goes into living this lifestyle.
Also, George Takei released a parody video called My Husband's Not Straight, which sort of shows the absurdity of forcing this sort of cultural expectation on a person.
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At some level, I wonder if these guys are bisexual, more gay than straight bisexual. But still bisexual and very horrified by the fact that their brain is turned on by the men they see due to their culture.
Like these guys are gay, but not gay enough that they can't tolerate having a wife, so it works. But if they brag about having a happy life*, and counsel others to do what they are doing, it encourages the REALLY gay people to have a go at faking it too, and you get all of the above disasters.
*or they are in denial
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posted
From the way they talk in that video, I'm not sure that they are. They talk about it as a constant challenge, going to "pray the gay away" counseling, depression, etc. I don't want to jump to conclusions, but I think if you're bisexual in this situation it's a lot easier - you simply choose to date a woman rather than a man, and "resisting your attraction to men" is just like resisting your attraction to women. I.e, something every married man does. The fact the constantly have to work on it makes it seem like they're deeply unsatisfied sexually, and are constantly fighting to "stay straight."
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posted
We have had many conversations here about the LDS church and homosexuality. I'm not so sure this one will add anything new to them.
But I will say this, I would never look to TLC for better understanding on any topic. It's one of the most vile and awful networks to have ever existed. Whatever nuggets of wisdom it happens upon are drowned out in a torrent of staged and edited garbage being presented as serendipitous learning.
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posted
Did you watch the link I provided? It was by ABC, and portrayed the show in a rather... negative light. All the interviews in it are done by ABC.
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quote:Originally posted by Dogbreath: Did you watch the link I provided? It was by ABC, and portrayed the show in a rather... negative light. All the interviews in it are done by ABC.
I'm not sure how an ABC feature of a TLC show is somehow going to be better.
Garbage in, garbage out, yes?
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posted
Well, to clarify I've never watched TLC, but I don't really like the idea of the show. In that it seems to depict an idealized version of events (like in the trailer) while leaving out the ugly side of the picture, I think it may give people who argue against SSM because "they can just get married to women, everything will be fine if they just obey God!" some false validation. Also, I don't like shows that get into people's personal lives to that extent, especially for entertainment purposes.
I don't have enough experience to agree with you, but I seriously doubt we disagree on the TLC being crap point. It doesn't mean that the people portrayed in the show don't exist, though, which is kind of what I'm talking about...
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I'm sure the people do exist. I'm sure there are couples where one of the spouses is gay, and trying to see if marrying somebody will make them otherwise.
The only such individuals I've personally encountered are gay men who later divorced when they couldn't take it anymore. I have no exposure to gay people who claim to be happy in their heterosexual relationships.
I was only trying to suggest that TLC won't shed light on the subject.
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posted
*nods* I'm sure TLC will do the opposite of that, actually. Most of these guys look like they're in the desperate, pretend-everything-is-hunky-dory-while-actually-an-emotional-wreck-awaiting-the-inevitable-kinda-like-when-you-have-to-puke-but-really-don't-want-to-puke-but-have-to-so-you-try-thi nking-about-everything-else-and-ignoring-it-but-end-up-puking-anyway stage of their marriage, and the upbeat, happy Leave it to Beaver approach TLC is taking will doubtlessly just make other men who are trying and failing at this hate themselves a little bit more, while making the people who are so hateful and judgmental of gays feel justified. After all, if you're just Godly enough and try hard the gay will go away.
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I will absolutely goddamned guarantee you that at start of filming at LEAST one of these men has been Ted Haggarding one or more dudes in secret since well before the start of filming, and that more shall surely follow.
TLC has picked up on this because mormonism's backwardness and homophobia is creating the exact sort of (perfectly profitably documentable!) desperate denial that people will watch because it is an amazing train wreck of human misery in action. They don't do this because it's uplifting. They do this for the same reason we have tv shows about hoarders.
I can't wait for these men's pathological coping mechanisms, denial mechanisms, and survivor trauma from religious bigotry to be made and kept highly visible. Are we not entertained?
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posted
I tend to agree that if you're bisexual, there's no special challenge to the situation, unless you are suffering from sexual compulsions too.
So some of these guys are probably mostly gay, and that's why it's a challenge at all. Others could be bisexual but have compulsion issues tied up in shame which would tend to make them obsess about their worst (from their own point of view) urges.
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posted
The thing that irritates me about it is their idiosyncratic definition of "gay" under which they are men sexually attracted solely (or at least primarily) to men, but they're not gay, because gay is a "lifestyle" not an orientation.
It should be titled "My husband is gay but doesn't want to be, so we're acting like he's not."
And TLC reality shows are inappropriate train wrecks of epic proportions anyway. I feel very sorry for their kids who have to live with people around the nation commenting on their parent's sexual proclivities because their parents chose to exploit their family to make a point and/or a buck.
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quote:Originally posted by scifibum: I tend to agree that if you're bisexual, there's no special challenge to the situation, unless you are suffering from sexual compulsions too.
So some of these guys are probably mostly gay, and that's why it's a challenge at all. Others could be bisexual but have compulsion issues tied up in shame which would tend to make them obsess about their worst (from their own point of view) urges.
That's what I think is going on with some of these men-- they have urges, but they're shamed about them is causing the challenge.
At least one of the women knew during dating, based on the clip. Though, being Mormon, they may have not gotten a test drive. If these guys couldn't satisfy their wives, who know exactly what's up, I suspect the plug would have been pulled a very long time ago. I also suspect that knowing that they are on the spot, the men are very responsive to feedback about what works and what doesn't.
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quote:And TLC reality shows are inappropriate train wrecks of epic proportions anyway. I feel very sorry for their kids who have to live with people around the nation commenting on their parent's sexual proclivities because their parents chose to exploit their family to make a point and/or a buck.
Rick from Rick and Morty: "You don't agree to have a theme park built inside you if your life's going great."
most of these people are probably easy prey for TLC's trainwreck television manufactory because they are not doing well and their compensatory mechanisms (and i'm not just talking about the being gay thing, they're probably dealing with generalized anxiety which is getting ready to become crippling, possible post trauma stress from ugly childhoods, some of them might actually just be trans and are all but totally dying inside over the repression) are straining and shearing under the stress
these people need privacy and a better support network to help them find some peace and stability for themselves. TLC will, of course, not want them to find peace and stability. TLC will want them to have specific very filmable trauma and life breakdowns.
MAY I SEGUE INTO A DISCUSSION ABOUT HOW TLC USED TO BE AN EDUCATIONAL CHANNEL BEFORE PRIVATIZATION RUINED IT COMPLETELY AND UTTERLY
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quote:Originally posted by dkw: The thing that irritates me about it is their idiosyncratic definition of "gay" under which they are men sexually attracted solely (or at least primarily) to men, but they're not gay, because gay is a "lifestyle" not an orientation.
It should be titled "My husband is gay but doesn't want to be, so we're acting like he's not."
And TLC reality shows are inappropriate train wrecks of epic proportions anyway. I feel very sorry for their kids who have to live with people around the nation commenting on their parent's sexual proclivities because their parents chose to exploit their family to make a point and/or a buck.
posted
It looks mildly amusing, but I'm surprised that it was deemed to have enough of a potential audience to go ahead. How many episodes is the initial order or is this a one-off?
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quote:Originally posted by Samprimary: MAY I SEGUE INTO A DISCUSSION ABOUT HOW TLC USED TO BE AN EDUCATIONAL CHANNEL BEFORE PRIVATIZATION RUINED IT COMPLETELY AND UTTERLY
Yes, you may, as long A) it is it isn't all in caps and B) is properly encased in "[rant] body [/rant]. These are my terms.
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"People forget or did not know that once upon a time The Learning Channel was founded in 1972 by the Department of Health, Education, and Welfare and NASA as an informative/instructional network focused on providing real education through the medium of TV; it was distributed at no cost by NASA satellite. Then it was privatized in 1980 (Reaganism) and was then named the Appalachian Community Service Network. In November 1980 this name was changed to “The Learning Channel”, which was subsequently shortened to “TLC.” From then on we have a sad decline to the abomination of child and poverty exploitation of the TLC’s current hit freak show “Here Comes Honey Boo Boo”. … In 1998 the channel began to distance itself from its original name “The Learning Channel”, and instead began to advertise itself only as “TLC”. So when Mitt Romney and the Republicans talk about how much better off PBS would be de-funded and privatized, remember what privatization did to TLC and how TLC went from NASA beaming information into student classrooms to the disgraceful programs it runs today (many of which exploit children). I am not saying we should not be capitalists and should be against the for profit model - but we should wake up from the delusion that the private sector can do it better. In some cases, the private sector does it worse and is worse."
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posted
Other things I don't like about this show concept, which I will never actually watch!
The way the title puts the focus on the wives, "My husband's not gay," instead of on the men themselves, "I'm not gay" or "I married a woman because I'm definitely not attracted to men, yo." It shifts the burden of maintaining the marriage to the wife, who will feel like a failure and be blamed if/when the marriage fails.
The fact that by agreeing to participate in this travesty these people have put themselves in the public eye for the rest of their lives -- if, 10 years from now, one of the couples gets divorced, you can bet that some newspaper who put their names in a tickle file will notice and print a screaming headline about how the marriage failed and it's obviously because the husband was gay. Also, if any of their kids are gay, turn to drugs, drop out of school, get caught shoplifting, or have a goth phase, ever, it will be in the papers and blamed on being raised in a family where the parents are in denial about the husband's sexuality.
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posted
many of these marriages will fall apart horribly and the people in them are subjecting themselves to them because they have had shame complexes instilled deep within them for what they are. can't wait to grist mill that into entertainment!
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