quote: I believe in maintaining character in a fictional setting like this.
What are you calling a fictional setting? Hatrack, Michael's story, your persona? "This place", Hatrack, is certainly not fictional for many of us. It is a really living community. We love here, laugh here, cry here, and it is a home. We are family, in nearly every sense of the word. Moose has chosen to share with us his life, as have many others. This is real. Not some "character" he is playing.
"The Other Side" of the forum? I'm not sure what your saying. The only "other side" I know of is the OSC Discussion, and I have no clue how that is relevant.
Fallow: It is for no good reason, other than to spout. Are you going to prove this happened? That it didn't happen? How does your disbelief affect anyone, except perhaps to hurt others?
Flippant is good in fluff threads, or to break tension. Neither is the case here.
I didn't say that I believed (or disbelieved) PapaMoose, because it is irrelevant to what he was saying. HE believes it, and made changes in his life because it, and I know and like him as he is now. He is who he is because of his beliefs, and I respect that.
I am non-denominational myself, so I don't know what to say s far as the actual events. I know that I feel God when I play my flute, and I don't need any validation for it to be true. But I might not share my feeling on the subject here, because of callous comments.
Are you sure you don't have food poisoning? You are being a little Ornery tonight....
Fallow, I don't think the reason Kwea listed is the real reason Tom "held his tongue" -- though it's probably the reason a number of others may have. No, I think his reason for refraining from questioning the truth of what I wrote is because what would be the point? How could the discussion possibly go? What possible response could I have to questioning about what I've said happened other than, "Well, I was there, and that's how I remember it"? I already said I expect many or most (or all, to be honest) people not to accept it -- that's part of why I don't share it that often.
I figure it's entirely up to the reader to determine what it means to them. If you think it's total fabrication -- fine. I disagree, though I'm certainly not going to argue the point with you. If you want to view it in the way Han Fei-Tzu viewed "The Life of Human," and consider the possibility that it might be empirically true but specifically false -- that's fine, too. If you think it's word for word accurate, great. Heck, if you'd prefer to think I'm an unusual combination of schizophrenic and prescient, or any other reason I'd believe this story myself, feel free. But I'm honestly not trying to convince anyone of anything. I don't really need it to matter to you for it to matter to me.
I guess if anything, I'd just be disappointed in your opinion of my honesty. Of those who have met me, most would probably tell you that I'm the same person in the flesh as I am at Hatrack, and as far as I know I haven't given anyone good reason to think I would lie. Disbelieving my story I can take pretty easily; disbelieving that I believe it kinda hurts. But I guess I can take that, too.
Again, folks, thank you for all the supportive responses.
Actually, Moose, it wasn't that I would have challenged the validity of your perception; it's that I was skeptical about your interpretation of what you perceived. And since that's COMPLETELY subjective, and there's absolutely no tactful or gainful way to have that conversation, I figured that you didn't need my input on this one.
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Icarus...why have you gone back to using your bizarre screenname? It takes me a minute to realize the clever sarcasm is YOU!
Papa Moose, thanks so much for taking the time to write that down. I'm grateful for people like you in the world and I'm especially grateful that I have the chance to know you!!
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Tom, if I correctly understand what you're saying, then that's the kind of question that might be interesting -- what in my life up to that point made me interpret things the way I did? How else could I have taken the meaning, and how might my life be different now? Much more fun than arguing over whether or not something actually happened. Heck, a couple other people have already suggested alternate meanings I could take from it.
A couple quotes from Xenocide and Children of the Mind come to mind -- "It is a foolish man who thinks a true story can mean only one thing," and "All the stories are fictions. What matters is which fiction you believe." I also think of other things OSC has said, though I couldn't place them. When he writes books which include a religion, the important thing is not whether or not the religion is true, but its effect. In Speaker for the Dead, for example, the question of whether or not Catholicism is "true" never comes up. True or not, its effects are real.
And what does a "dwarf in the stable" refer to? Is it something Tolkeinish, or maybe nativity-related? Just curious.
Oh, and Icarus? If you want to move out here to be friends with me, that's cool. We even have a Disney not too far away. *smile*
Papa, it is a CS Lewis reference rather than a Tolkien one. Here is a sermon which quotes the relevant section of The Voyage of the Dawn Treader (of The Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe series). It also discusses the scene in depth.
Like Tom, this was a memorable bit of Lewis' writing for me. I have very mixed feelings about it.
Wow, clearly I've been spending too much time reading Card and not enough Lewis. I should knowThe Chronicles of Narnia.
I'm so ashamed.... *sigh*
[Edit -- Ok, I pulled out The Last Battle and read the section on the dwarfs in the stable, so I get the allusion now. But I'm gonna have to read the entire series now, beginning with The Lion, The Witch, and The Wardrobe -- you know, the first one.]
[ April 23, 2004, 07:39 PM: Message edited by: Papa Moose ]
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I for one never gainsay the mystical experiences of other people. There are two reasons for this:
1) They are beyond logic and reason, therefore cannot be fruitfully examined in those terms. Thus all you have is one person's belief and another person's disbelief. Where does that get you? Either it happened or you are a liar. I've met you and I know you aren't a liar. So, it happened. Does it need explaining before I believe that? Why?
2) There's something out there. We've all experienced it, even if we are skeptics and try to deny it. Alot of what happens in the physical world defies explanation. Why should the spiritual world (whatever that is) be any easier to grapple with?
Anyway, I think this is a very cool story and I look forward to knowing you for a long time so I can see just what God has in store for you.
I don't know what it will be (my name's not Jack), but I do know that it will be inspiring. It already is -- you are among the best dads I've ever met. At least top 5, if not better.
I also wanted to add that I asked all three of my kids read your landmark post. It meant that much to me.
Teenagers often languish (including mine) in trying to figure out what direction to take their life -- "what is my calling, what am I supposed to do?" My kids have expressed these types of thoughts to me.
So I wanted them to see you landmark, to make them think -- "maybe I just need to ask."
I, too, want to add my thanks to the miriad of others who are grateful for your landmark post. I am so impressed that you could ask, believing, and without doubt. Such a testimony of faith! You have certainly added upon my testimony. Thank you.
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