I post this at 998 because this is an active landmark: my apologies. Also, I'd rather not delay it any more.
Most of you know me, as I'm not regarded as a lurker (so said J T Stryker), but for those who don't - as well as those who do, but only a bit (everyone but Raia, even she's at doubt) - I write this Landmark for.
I'm Jonathan Howard. I live in Jerusalem, Israel - I really like OSC, although I only read 8 of his books - and I was born on 16/05/1990.
For those of you who want to see me, I have a picture posted on Yahoo!, but I warn you - I'm in underwear and socks (for some weird reason - and I'm reading Chronology of World War Two), and I'm pretty ugly there. Those of you who want an updated evaluation of me, please talk to Shani (nini.golightly@gmail.com), who seems to think I'm somewhat hot.
Anyway, I was born and raised in Jerusalem with four siblings aged 10 to 14 years older than me. There is a term used in Israel - "Me'orav Yerushalmi", which means that everyone in Jerusalem is a Bitser, or a Heinz ("57 varieties") - a mishmash of cultures, families, and educations. My father was born in Australia, to a family originally from England, Ireland and the Austro-Hungarian Empire. My mother came from a family in Eastern Europe (she herself was born in Prague, to a father from a Hungarian speaking area, and a mother from Ukranian/Czech speaking area), to what I believe is a Russian family that fled westwards.
I was born and raised in Jerusalem, when all the Anglosaxons came. A religious education (that I threw away for a more materialistic philosophical point of view), was something far too classically-European for me, so I was always the pluralist in the group(s).
I now study from 7:30 to 17:15 three days a week, to 16:30 another one, and 14:20 with no break on another (that day I have another 2 hours of school-sponsored community work). Plus, I ned to recover a whole day's work that I "lose", because I study at a "school for the gifted".
Right, it means very little, but it still is something. Useful on the resume, 7 years of studis there did make me competent enough for here...
As this is an OSC forum, I'll add a bit of my relationship to his books. Before SotH came out I read the opening of Chapter X ("Dragon") in Ender's Game - as one showed me it as a 'mini-blurb'. Naturally, I had it in two days, and after a week I was begging my mother to get me SftD. I got bored after 45 pages, and dropped it for a while (over I year, I belive). Then, reaching the interesting part, it only took me another three days until I was through CotM. By now I've read the entire Ender Saga (except SotG), and started Alvin - although I lost the book somewhere. I only reached Chapter 3...
My parents are both religious - though my father thinks that Judaism is a load of crap. I think that Judaism is a load of superficial eccentricities blended together in a number of holy books: don't get me started on Catholicism.
I was weened as one with the following priorities: (I) A human bing with values. (II) An intelligent person with a wide span of knowledge and understanding. (III) A good friend. (IV) Misc.
I really have nothing more to say yet; so I'll make this an active landmark. Any questions about parents, siblings, other family, friends, religion, political opinions or ANYTHING - just ask, so this won't be so boring.
JH
[ March 28, 2005, 12:58 PM: Message edited by: Jonathan Howard ]
Posted by Jay (Member # 5786) on :
Very cool. So what's it like living in Israel?
Posted by ClaudiaTherese (Member # 923) on :
Thanks for the Landmark, Jonathon. I, too, would like to know about living in Israel.
Posted by Raia (Member # 4700) on :
quote: Those of you who want an updated evaluation of me, please talk to Shani (nini.golightly@gmail.com), who seems to think I'm somewhat hot.
I can attest to the fact that Jonny is a very good-looking, intelligent, witty, and altogether wonderful young man, being the only hatracker to have met him in person.
Jonny, I'm glad you're here. While I live here, neither of my parents are religious, and while I was born here, I've lived out of Israel for most of my life. It would be interesting to hear your parents' thoughts on Judaism, as well as yours!
Anyway, stick around. It's nice to have you as a friend! Posted by Farmgirl (Member # 5567) on :
quote: (I) A human bing with values.
I've always wanted to be a human bing.
Great landmark, Jonathan. I'm so glad you are here and that you wanted to share with us. I look forward to learning more about you as you age with Hatrack.
Farmgirl
Posted by dread pirate romany (Member # 6869) on :
I look forward to hearing more about you.
Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
Nice to see a landmark from you. You were born the year I graduated from high school.
Posted by SteveRogers (Member # 7130) on :
Great landmark. It was very entertaining. Its nice to learn a bit more about you.
Posted by Little_Doctor (Member # 6635) on :
Hey! I'm only a year older than you! Who knew? Posted by Jonathan Howard (Member # 6934) on :
Well, let's make a Landmark of a reply (I hope)!
Living in Israel does seem to some as either the land of Milk (grotty, indigestible 3% fat; instead of rich, creamy and more like 30% fat) and honey (an attraction during ant-parties, remember to store in refrigirated areas), or the land of sand (not particularly tasty, little rocks aren't my type) and camels (filthy creatures, flies' attraction and human repellers).
It's neither, where I live. As I was born into an area where many are Anglosaxon immigrants, during English lesson we had a special Hebrew-speakers' group, and the vast majority (over 85%) were Anglosaxons. I left that school, because what I thought back at the age of 3 was a harmonious little community - turned out to be pretty flawed. Hey! I was 4 - and I already knew the planet Io - I believed in a utopia...
Now it's an assortment of far too many cultures ("Jews" - more accurately Hebrites, and Arabs: Christians are fleeing the land; the Jews are divided into scular, religious, Breslav, Religious-Zionists, and the Ultra-Orthodox - where each of those is well divided. In terms of ethnic origins there are lots of biggots - for what Kurd would dare be called a Moroccan? Heaven forbid!), that integrate awkwardly. You have the "Russians", the "Americans", the "Ethiopians" and various other originals (Kurds, Yemenites, Moroccans, Persians, Ashkenazi Jews from Europe, and many others).
Back in primary school - when I studied in the "old city", we used to go around and speak to the local Arabs. Now, not one dares pass the wall, and the whole of East Jeusalem is a "deserted" area, kind of like Berlin in the 70s.
But not all's bad. Although education is down, the nation can still be regarded as first-world; although it's descending 2 words down. I, who am from the middle-class (in its higher ranks), will probably have trouble getting a car, even a small one. What people pay here for a good Honda Civic will get them a Cadillac in the US. So is the economical situation, where 47% of Jerusalemites are regarded as "poor".
That's a little about Israel...
As for Raia's question:
My mother's parents are Holocaust survivors, and she grew up in a religious house - very orthodox... My father converted years back, and still wonders why. As far as my father is concerned, he is a refugee who is stuck in this nation for awkward reasons and "cannot return to Australia", even though he keps on claiming he'll return. I was raised as a religious Jew, but due to exposure to modern culture, I gradually became an atheist. I still keep a Jewish-styled code of ethics, and attend a Jewish schools. I do maintain an open mind, and almost went to Easter prayers this Sunday. Lack of knowledge regarding the prayer procedure - and my going alone - restricted me, however.
Any other questions? Or some I missed?
JH
Posted by Jonathan Howard (Member # 6934) on :
Ahem, Raia:
quote: Jonny is a very good-looking
Well, your standards are low, Raia. I'm pretty ugly.
quote: intelligent
Rrrright... I'm not ven at 150 IQ, and this is HATRACK. I'm one of the dumbest here.
quote: witty
Behaving like Basil Fawlty does not count.
quote: wonderful
What wonders are you referring to? The Hanging Gardens of Babylon?
quote: young
No offence, but my childhood is over, and I'm not satisfied with it fully.
JH
Posted by Raia (Member # 4700) on :
quote: Well, your standards are low, Raia. I'm pretty ugly.
Liar.
quote: Rrrright... I'm not ven at 150 IQ, and this is HATRACK. I'm one of the dumbest here.
Don't make me quote your insights in public...
quote: Behaving like Basil Fawlty does not count.
Sure it does!
quote: What wonders are you referring to? The Hanging Gardens of Babylon?
Among others...
quote: No offence, but my childhood is over, and I'm not satisfied with it fully.
Well, you're younger than me. And why are you not satisfied?
Posted by Jonathan Howard (Member # 6934) on :
quote: Liar.
This fight can go on forever.
quote: Don't make me quote your insights in public... [Razz]
What insights? I never had any.
quote: Among others
What others?
quote: why are you not satisfied?
Because I could've done more and I am not an integral part of any single PHYSICAL community.
JH
Posted by Raia (Member # 4700) on :
*sigh*
You're impossible.
*agrees that fight can go on forever*
*shakes head*
*leaves*
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
Jon, fishing for compliments through the application of false modesty, however tongue-in-cheek, is indeed a Basil Fawlty sort of thing to do. Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
quote: I'm not ven at 150 IQ,
Jeez, now I feel like a friggin idiot. I have no idea what my IQ is, but I doubt it's that high.
I've always wondered what it's like to live in Israel, not that I'd ever want to myself. I tend to dislike Israel for several reasons, which I won't list here, it's not the time or the place, but I've never had a problem with the people, indeed, I don't really know anything about Israel's citizens.
What does an average Israeli think of world politics? of Americans?
Posted by Raia (Member # 4700) on :
That depends if the Israeli is right-wing or left-wing, Lyrhawn. Posted by SteveRogers (Member # 7130) on :
And what if they are center-wing? Posted by Miro (Member # 1178) on :
I just got an image of a bird with a wing sticking out of its back. *shudder*
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
Well what is left wing and right wing there? I doubt it's the same thing as it is here.
Posted by KarlEd (Member # 571) on :
Does the photo link above work for anyone else? I get "page not found". Posted by mothertree (Member # 4999) on :
Questions... When are you going to read Dune ?
Posted by Morbo (Member # 5309) on :
Answer: skip Dune. It's alright, and the sequel is readable, but after that it goes quickly downhill. Very overrated, not Herbert's best work.
That's too bad about the fracturing of Israeli society along all those religious/ethnic/nationalist boundaries, I didn't realize that. I think the US and other countries are having that problem too. People need something to unite around.
Posted by Jonathan Howard (Member # 6934) on :
Tom, it was honest humbleness.
Lyrhawn, that was the top mark I got on an Israeli test. Remember that these tests are dumbed-down so people get a higher mark. I probably don't pass the 135.
The average Israeli, Raia, is a right-winger barbaric idiot who litters, smokes, listens to (c)rap music and plays trance in his Mazda3 at volumes unheard of.
Lyrhawn, the average Israeli thinkg he knows about politics, but really doesn't. He'll complain about taxes, and grumble at any governmental movement, but he himself won't do much better. Remember - "the Government represents the people"... Obviously, they think that the US is one big brother coming to aid; they hate the American Jews who are here, but love McDonald's and Burger King.
SteveRogers, the centre party is now a historic party - they are practically eliminated.
Lyrhawn, the left-wingers lack an extreme. In other words, what is "extreme left" here is rather a moderate group of pacifists. The right is mainly being lead by the extremeists, and follows the pathetic - yet very "attractive" to the rightists - racist calls and quest for seeking out every Arab and murdering them in cold blood. Hey, what can I say? The extreme right did start like that in the 30s: much higher a rate of popularity and extremeism, but still!
KarlEd, go to Yahoo! Profiles, and search for "jonnymaster5700".
mothertree, whenever my father gets his act together.
Morbo, the only thing that unites Isaeli "Hebrites" from the much more popular right wing - is racism and fascism.
JH
[ March 28, 2005, 11:56 PM: Message edited by: Jonathan Howard ]
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
I don't get it, why do they hate American Jews?
American Jews are at least a part of the reason they get so much big brother American support.
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
Jonny exaggerates.
And even of those who have some amount of disdain for American Jews (which is FAR from the majority), it's rarely hate.
Posted by JonnyNotSoBravo (Member # 5715) on :
quote: And what if they are center-wing?
Then it's a dorsal fin and they probably look a bit fishy.
Posted by Raia (Member # 4700) on :
quote: The average Israeli, Raia, is a right-winger barbaric idiot who litters, smokes, listens to (c)rap music and plays trance in his Mazda3 at volumes unheard of.
No, that would be the average right-wing teenager. I beg to differ on this one... almost everyone I know is different.
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
And I, who move in rather different circles than Raia, also know almost no one who fits that description -- and a great many who do not.
Posted by Jonathan Howard (Member # 6934) on :
quote: almost everyone I know is different.
I'll bold the things that are "complained" about different social circles.
Raia, you live in a bubble; you dwell in one. That's not to say I'm not in a bubble (and I enjoy it). But take aside the "different ones", the disdained and excessively communal Americans, the over-classy Russians, the black and poor Ethiopians, the rich oligarchy, the fascist settlers and the upper-mid-class university boys (and girls) - and you're pretty much left with the Israeli social glue of those who are not different, according to your reply.
Go to my father's school and look at the "Arsim", the "Tzfonim" and their social status. Then, look at the social status of the regular geeks. Also, you hear many more stereotypes agains "Askenazim" rather than "Sepharadim". Remember, in the 50s, the Ashkenazi Jews came from richer lands. This nation is in an amazing state compared to what one might've expected it to be based on its social history. So yes, Herzl lived in his harmonious belief that all will be good, but it isn't.
I'm not blaming anyone here, I'm just stating that I am part of the cover-up, of the oligarchic (one might even say aristocratic) community; so are you, Raia, and so is rivka. We are pat who deals with the intellectual elite. I have been to my father's school, and there are kids in a hopeless state: addicted to drugs, uneducated, who lack strength to keep up with schoolwork, who just goof around and whose teen-years seem to go towards destruction rather than construction. Not all are like that, but there is tension, and that's simply a social fact. There's a lack of facilities to deal with these things, and that's just how it is.
JH
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
You are acting under some very inaccurate assumptions as to what circles I move in.
My brother is married to a Sephardi. My cousins (and I have a LOT of Israeli cousins!) fit into almost all of the different segments you mention (not that I'd agree with your evaluation of pretty much any of those groups) -- and a number you presumably aren't even aware of.
And with perhaps one or two exceptions, none fit into the "intellectual elite" or "oligarchy."
You are assuming that as you live, so live all those around you. This is a common misconception of the young. You'll outgrow it in a few years, I'm sure.
Posted by Jonathan Howard (Member # 6934) on :
quote: My brother is married to a Sephardi.
I never said anything against them, I myself have a Sepharadi brother-in-law and many good Sephardi friends. More antagonism, though, is expressed against Ashkenazi Jews. At least that's what the next generation (of kids) is coming up with.
quote: your evaluation of pretty much any of those groups
My evaluation? I was using the general thoughts that pop up in many kids' minds (and surveys that were done, spanning virtually all ages and all sectors but the one asked about).
quote: You are assuming that as you live, so live all those around you.
Yeah, right! I am part of the "oligarchy", a "rich" (poor in international terms, but studying in a private school and living in a beautiful neighbourhood) kid who comes from a Euopean, religious family.
I live in such a community! English is widely used, parents know each other and families invite families over for Sabbath. I was - obviously - looking at things the pessimistic way due to my position, but I've seen what goes on in schools. I speak to kids from all around the country. And though today's kids are not currently a fair reflection of the society - in 15 years they will be much more.
No hard feelings, rivka; but I know what I'm talking about. I may see it in a grey contrast due to me being in a lavender world, but I know that all ain't pink out there. I am not all centred in my Little Jonny World.
JH
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
Please provide more information on these surveys.
Interesting that you know "the general thoughts that pop up in many kids' minds."
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
Oh, and I wasn't trying to imply that you had anything against Sephardim. Rather, I was saying that via my SIL (and her siblings and parents), who I have gotten to know pretty well over the past few years, I think I have a pretty good idea of what it means to be Sephardi in EY.
Not claiming to know what she thinks, mind. I leave the mind-reading up to you.
Posted by Jonathan Howard (Member # 6934) on :
quote: Interesting that you know "the general thoughts that pop up in many kids' minds."
I can sum it up in OSC.
Obliterate the Arabs and their evil culture. Sex is so good that we must start at 12. Cellphones are the coolest things! We can use them as sex toys, and communicate in a way that will destroy the Arabs.
Posted by Morbo (Member # 5309) on :
O_o
Now you can add titillative to the landmark title, JH. Posted by Jonathan Howard (Member # 6934) on :
![[ROFL]](graemlins/rofl.gif)
![[Smile]](smile.gif)
![[Group Hug]](graemlins/grouphug.gif)
![[Wink]](wink.gif)
![[Dont Know]](graemlins/dontknow.gif)
![[Razz]](tongue.gif)
![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
![[Evil Laugh]](graemlins/evillaugh.gif)
![[Frown]](frown.gif)