Hatrack River Writers Workshop   
my profile login | search | faq | forum home

  next oldest topic   next newest topic
» Hatrack River Writers Workshop » Forums » Fragments and Feedback for Short Works » no title - realism/playing with time in the narrative

   
Author Topic: no title - realism/playing with time in the narrative
venzebelch
New Member
Member # 5224

 - posted      Profile for venzebelch           Edit/Delete Post 
Hey everybody,
Here is my first post. When I copied 13 lines it took up more space than the text box where posts are copied. I think that I have read elsewhere that we are supposed to limit ourselves to the content of that box for our first 13 so that's what I did. Also, I'm not sure how to notate paragraph breaks. Do we do spaces between them?

_________________________________

Johnny knew before he ever lifted the barrel that he would shoot miss Cora deader than a possum rotting between the yellows. She didn’t know it, though.
He knew it before he snuck into pa’s room so quiet like a coon so he wouldn’t wake him from his day time sleep. That’s where pa kept the shotgun: under the bed so it was close should he ever need it.
“A man takes care of business right quick and decisive, he does,” pa said. “That’s the difference between men and women. They want to talk it through. Not us. We take measures.”
‘Well, he was wrong about Miss Cora,’ Johnny thought. She took her measures all right. Right quick, too.’ Johnny closed the door behind him, minding not to let it bump into the barrel.

Thanks everyone.
venzebelch (btw, the belch is for my last name. It really is Belch.

[This message has been edited by Kathleen Dalton Woodbury (edited October 19, 2007).]


Posts: 2 | Registered: Mar 2007  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
TheOnceandFutureMe
unregistered


 - posted            Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
Johnny knew before he ever lifted the barrel that he would shoot miss Cora deader than a possum rotting between the yellows. (Even though I don't know what the yellows are, I still really like the first sentence)She didn’t know it, though. (aaaaaand this is where you lose me. You switch perspective. Give me a strong POV. Stick with Johnny. I like Johnny.)
He knew it before he snuck into pa’s room so (Cut "so." It's an unnecessary word, and I can feel Johnny's voice w/o it) quiet like a coon so he wouldn’t wake him from his day time sleep.(Don't repeat "he knew it." Just show me Johnny sneaking. Also, "day time sleep" is awkward. Is it a nap? Does he work at night? It's not clear) That’s where pa kept the shotgun: under the bed so it was close should he ever need it.
“A man takes care of business right quick and decisive, he does,” pa said. “That’s the difference between men and women. They want to talk it through. Not us. We take measures.”(Is Pa - notice "Pa" is capitalized - saying this now? Is it something he says often? If it's in the past, don't do it. You've got a guy sneaking to get a gun - you've got me. Don't knock me away by telling me something his father used to say)
‘Well, he was wrong about Miss Cora,’ Johnny thought. She took her measures all right. Right quick, too.’ (I have no idea what "she too her measures" means. Are you expecting me to know?) Johnny closed the door behind him,(Whoa! You're skipping the part where he swipes the gun? That's up to you, but I bet trying to grab a gun w/o waking the father would make for a tense scene) minding not to let it bump into the barrel. Through the panels he heard pa’s reassuring snores rather than anger for being woke up.(But he wasn't woke up. I understand what you're trying to say here, but that was what I thought. Think about rewording that last sentence)

My advice - You've got what should be a tense scene. Johnny, who feels somehow wronged by Miss Cora, is sneaking into his father's room to swipe a shotgun. IMHO, here's how it could be more tense:
-Let me know why Johnny wants to kill Miss Cora. Make me sympathize with Johnny. Otherwise, I don't care if he lives or dies.
-Don't switch away from Johnny's POV, or the present. Who is thinking the line "She didn't know it, though"? It's not clear if this is Johnny's opinion, or an omni narrator who should really be hiding behind the curtain and entertaining me with smoke and lights. I say either cut the line, or make it clear that it is Johnny thinking that Miss Cora didn't know it. As I mentioned above, you had a guy trying to grab a gun from a someone asleep. Don't pull me away from that action by telling me about the past. I'm not hooked enough 4 lines in (in any story, not just yours) to care what someone's Dad used to say. Stay in the story.
-This is just my opinion, but I really think it would be a good hook to have Johnny trying to take the gun without waking up his dad. As it stands, you completely skip over what could be a really tense scene.

-And too many typos! Iron out your own work before sending it our way.

[This message has been edited by TheOnceandFutureMe (edited October 18, 2007).]


IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
mfreivald
Member
Member # 3413

 - posted      Profile for mfreivald   Email mfreivald         Edit/Delete Post 
I really like this.

quote:
Johnny knew before he ever lifted the barrel that he would shoot miss Cora deader than a possum rotting between the yellows.

Like TOaFM, I don't know what this means, but I still like it.

quote:
She didn’t know it, though.

I don't have the same problem with POV that TOaFM had. There are two possibilities I immediately see here. One is that you are still firmly in Johnny's POV, and he is stating his assessment of Cora's knowledge. The other is that your POV has broader omniscience than Johnny, in spite of the close Johnny perspective. The first has stronger POV, but weaker certainty. The second has slightly weaker POV, but greater certainty. I personally think the character of the language is strong enough that the loss either way is minimal. I read right past it without concern.

quote:
He knew it before he snuck into pa’s room so…

I think losing the "so" is a judgment call. The sentence has a different character without it, and the language is so strong, it holds it well.

I also like the repetitive "he knew its." They fit nicely into this setup, and it adds to the already textured expression of the narrator.

I don't mean to just disagree with everything TOaFM said, but I also like the characterization and additional information we get with the quote from Pa. Normally, I would agree that you need to clarify the chronology of when Pa said it, but it was obvious to me in the first read that Johnny was remembering what Pa said. The language you are using makes it work.

The "she took her measures" line doesn't explain itself, but it doesn't have to right yet. I am anticipating how that will be spelled out for me very shortly, so I'm okay with it as long as you give it to me soon.

I'm good with how you simply have him exit with the gun, too. I don't really care about the tension of the theft -- you have me interested in the far more juicy stuff going on when Johnny shoots Cora. Don't slow me down from that by needlessly belaboring the theft scene.

TOaFM wrote:

quote:
-Let me know why Johnny wants to kill Miss Cora. Make me sympathize with Johnny. Otherwise, I don't care if he lives or dies.

I agree that we (probably) need to know why this is happening soon -- but I disagree that you have to have it explained by now. You have me wondering, and I am happily anticipating the revelation. (You don't seem to be hiding the ball here -- which would be annoying. You seem to be characterizing the ball as you prepare to reveal it.)

quote:
I'm not hooked enough 4 lines in (in any story, not just yours) to care what someone's Dad used to say. Stay in the story.

That part of the characterization was part of the hook to me. The quote is part of the description and characterization of the scene you are developing. I like it.

quote:
-And too many typos! Iron out your own work before sending it our way.

Hey! We do agree on something!

I have mixed feelings on how you played with time. When I read it through the first time, I had no difficulty whatsoever with the seeming immediacy of the flashback. But when I reread it, it seemed a bit off. The "Well, he was wrong…" line is a bit ambiguous. Is it in the present (while lifting the barrel) or in the flashback (as he walks out with the gun)? Still -- it worked just fine when I read it the first time (I had him thinking it as he walked out with the gun), and if I were reading for pleasure, that's the impression I would be left with.

I am hooked, and I want to read on to find out why Johnny killed Cora.

Nicely done.


Posts: 394 | Registered: May 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
WouldBe
Member
Member # 5682

 - posted      Profile for WouldBe   Email WouldBe         Edit/Delete Post 
Dudes: roadkill, between the yellow lines. But, author, the yellow lines usually mark the center of the road. The outside lines are white.

On a quick read, the opening has a good hook. I won't rehash the grammatical issues, but will vote on a couple. The issue of when-Pa-said-what is confounded by two things: inconsistency of how you represent thoughts or recollections (Pa: in quotes; Johnny: in single quotes), and the time/tense used when identifying thoughts.

Pa's thoughts could be set properly in time by using the evil "had": “A man takes care of business right quick and decisive, he does,” Pa had said. “That’s...." I'd be inclined to leave the quotes (but capitalize "Pa"). For Johnny's thoughts, use italics rather than single quotes; I've never seen single quotes used in that way.

I vote for dropping the controversial "so." I live in the South and write this sort of dialog and narrative now and then. It sounds odd to me. Set the clause off with commas: He knew it before he snuck into Pa’s room, quiet like a coon, so he wouldn’t...."

[This message has been edited by WouldBe (edited October 20, 2007).]


Posts: 746 | Registered: Jun 2007  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
axtage
New Member
Member # 5629

 - posted      Profile for axtage   Email axtage         Edit/Delete Post 
[Loved it. Loved the "she didn't know it, though." I don't think that's a change in viewpoint at all. There is lots of flashback here but it doesn't feel like flashback. The only thing I would change has already been mentioned. I'd eliminate the "so" before quiet and set the phrase off with commas.]

Johnny knew before he ever lifted the barrel that he would shoot miss Cora deader than a possum rotting between the yellows. She didn’t know it, though.
He knew it before he snuck into pa’s room so quiet like a coon so he wouldn’t wake him from his day time sleep. That’s where pa kept the shotgun: under the bed so it was close should he ever need it.
“A man takes care of business right quick and decisive, he does,” pa said. “That’s the difference between men and women. They want to talk it through. Not us. We take measures.”
‘Well, he was wrong about Miss Cora,’ Johnny thought. She took her measures all right. Right quick, too.’ Johnny closed the door behind him, minding not to let it bump into the barrel.



Posts: 3 | Registered: Jun 2007  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
InarticulateBabbler
Member
Member # 4849

 - posted      Profile for InarticulateBabbler   Email InarticulateBabbler         Edit/Delete Post 
My take:

quote:

Johnny knew[--]before he ever lifted the barrel[--]that he would shoot [M]iss Cora deader than a possum [rotting between the yellows<--Eh?].<--[Great hook, if you clean up the metaphor]. [She didn’t know it, though.<--Not only violates PoV, but it's unnecessary. It would only be necessary if she DID know.]

He knew it before he snuck into pa’s room so quiet[, like a coon,] so he wouldn’t wake him from his day time sleep. That’s where [P]a kept the shotgun: under the bed so it was close[,] should he ever need it. [There's been a lot of prepositions not separated by commas. Also the metaphors are thick.]

“A man takes care of business right quick and decisive, he does,” [P]a said. “That’s the difference between men and women. They want to talk it through. Not us. We take measures.”

‘Well, he was wrong about Miss Cora,’ Johnny thought. She took her measures all right. Right quick, too.’ Johnny closed the door behind him, minding not to let it bump into the barrel.


This starts with a hook, then backtracks. After reading this, you don't need the first paragraph at all. We gather he's going to do something with the shotgun to Miss Cora.

"Pa" should always be capitalized in this, because that's how he thinks of his father (in place of a proper name).

Some commas were missing, making it harder to sift through, and the metaphors didn't really work for me (didn't seem well thought out, more rushed), so I'd kill them, or rethink them.

Other than 1 PoV slip, the character would carry me on for more.


Posts: 3687 | Registered: Jan 2007  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
   

   Close Topic   Feature Topic   Move Topic   Delete Topic next oldest topic   next newest topic
 - Printer-friendly view of this topic
Hop To:


Contact Us | Hatrack River Home Page

Copyright © 2008 Hatrack River Enterprises Inc. All rights reserved.
Reproduction in whole or in part without permission is prohibited.


Powered by Infopop Corporation
UBB.classic™ 6.7.2