posted
So I have decided to revist an old story once again, breathing new life into it with my expanded skills and experience. This is a slightly off-kilter, modern-setting "careful what you wish for" story, with my namesake the super-mage Emrys acting the part of Djinn/Monkey's Paw etc. Thoughts on the begining good, offers to read it all when finished better.
Katherine Cain was about to make archeological history. More importantly, perhaps, she was about to vindicate her life’s work. All the time, energy, and money spent researching the Lost City, all the ridicule she’d endured for even considering its existence a possibility. That was all behind her now as she stood before what she and Eric had named the Last Door, deep within the temple-structure at the heart of the Lost City. “So, are we ready to uncover the wonders of the ancient world, all the lost mysteries of the supernatural?” Eric asked her with a smile “I’ve been ready for the past year,” Kathy replied. “Way longer than that, if you think about it.” Kathy nodded. “But when we got here and found ruins, that was when I knew.
Second version, tweaked just a tad
Katherine Cain was about to make archeological history. More importantly, perhaps, she was about to vindicate her life’s work. All the time, energy, and money spent researching the Lost City, all the ridicule she’d endured for even considering its existence a possibility. That was all behind her now as she stood before what she and Eric had named the Last Door, deep within the temple-structure at the heart of the Lost City. Eric smiled at her. “Are you ready to uncover the wonders of the ancient world and the mysteries of the supernatural?” “I’ve been ready for over a year,” Kathy replied. “Longer than that. Much longer.” Kathy nodded. “But when we found the ruins, I knew this was it. Then it was just a matter of finding the spot.”
[This message has been edited by Merlion-Emrys (edited August 17, 2010).]
posted
One thing I noticed is that Kathy and Eric's dialog at the end seems to be somewhat artificial, as if they are giving exposition rather than just talking to each other.
You've left me wanting to know what's behind the Last Door, which is a good hook.
posted
I like the first line, it hooks me into wanting to know what she has found and what is behind the door.
I agree with Derek about the dialogue, it seems more for the benefit of the reader.
You also do two things I just got criticized for just today by an experienced reader. You do what she called "The Whatever Whatever", in which you give something importance by calling it "the" and capitalizing. In this case it is the Lost City and the Last Door. This reader then made me read Turkey City Lexicon.
I would suggest here since the door is important, an actual description of the door. Also, you might have a name for this lost city, as I doubt the actual inhabitants called it the lost city. The archaeologists would likely know something of the language of the culture and therefore likely know the name of the city. Look at archaelogists studying ancient Egypt, they all know how to read hieroglyphs and know the ancient Egyptian names for the old cities.
posted
Seconding on what the others said about the dialog. Some call that "As you know, Bob..." exposition, where one character is telling another what he already knows. Or "as you know, your father, the king...."
Some ideas to avoid the opening exposition and the dialog exposition is to start somewhere earlier, such as a meeting where she's trying to get funding. Or, start with opening the door unhesitatingly, with little more setup than something like, "If this isn't the lost city, then my career is down the tubes...." Handle the background sometime after whatever drama plays out behind the door. If what's behind the door is really cool, the reader won't mind waiting to hear what it took to get there.
[This message has been edited by WouldBe (edited August 17, 2010).]
quote:I agree with Derek about the dialogue, it seems more for the benefit of the reader.
Well, as I mention in the thread on Prose over in Open Discussions, about the "As you know, Bob" dialogue, I frequently encounter people in real life talking this way. I guess maybe my experience is just different.
As I see it they are standing on the threshold...literally...of what they've been searching for so long and take a moment to reflect. Does that make sense?
quote:This reader then made me read Turkey City Lexicon
I'm not a big fan of the TCL. I mean its all well and good and can be useful, but proscriptive rules and lists of things you must or must not do...I'm very mistrustful of them. There are many tools in story telling, and they all have their place so they idea that certain things must be studiously avoided, I just don't agree. It all depends on the story.
quote:Also, you might have a name for this lost city, as I doubt the actual inhabitants called it the lost city. The archaeologists would likely know something of the language of the culture and therefore likely know the name of the city.
They actually do not. All knowledge of the City is from references to it by other cultures in their own languages. In fact, when they go through the door is when they see the first examples of the language of the people who built the City. Also, a description of the door comes along in just a few more lines.
As far as the dialogue thing, what would people suggest for doing the same thing in a more "natural" manner (although it already seems natural to me, if its weird to everyone else I'd like to know how they think it could be improved.)
quote:Well, as I mention in the thread on Prose over in Open Discussions, about the "As you know, Bob" dialogue, I frequently encounter people in real life talking this way.
I've often seen the advice that 'realistic dialog doesn't sound realistic'. To be effective when read, dialog has to sound different than people really speak.
I'm certainly no expert, but here's a suggestion of how I might present the dialog:
“Ancient wonders and lost mysteries,” said Eric with a smile. "Ready?"
“Been ready for a year,” she said.
“Oh, longer than that, Kathy. Longer than that.”
Kathy nodded. “Know when I really knew? Finding the ruins. That was when it gelled....
quote:I've often seen the advice that 'realistic dialog doesn't sound realistic'. To be effective when read, dialog has to sound different than people really speak.
Yeah, I've heard that too. However, the criticism of "as you know, Bob" dialogue...and of my dialogue here in this fragment...is that it doesn't sound like how people would actually talk.
As with most such things, some people want it one way, some people the other and pleasing everyone isn't going to happen.
quote:I'm certainly no expert, but here's a suggestion of how I might present the dialog:
Thanks for the example. To my eyes it doesn't sound any more realistic than what I already have...but as I said, apparently my minds ears are a bit different than most or something, so this gives me some ideas for how I might tweak it should I decide to do that. Thanks again.
posted
I was unclear on the intent of the first two sentences. At first, they sounded as though Katherine was thinking back on a triumph from years ago, on that time she made archaeological history and vindicated her life's work. On second reading, I thought maybe I had misread and these were Katherine's hopes as she was standing outside the door.
(Also, the most common spelling of "archaeological" has three a's in it)
quote: Well, as I mention in the thread on Prose over in Open Discussions, about the "As you know, Bob" dialogue, I frequently encounter people in real life talking this way. I guess maybe my experience is just different.
For me, Derek's example felt more natural. People often talk in a lazy fashion. We drop words that don't add meaning. To me, "Been ready for years" sounds more natural because it is more imprecise and lazy than "I've been ready for over a year."
You have to write what sounds write to you. I had an editor read a piece of mine and she changed the dialog. To me it sounded stiff, but she thought it was better that way. I'm still contemplating changing it to sound better to me.
quote: As I see it they are standing on the threshold...literally...of what they've been searching for so long and take a moment to reflect. Does that make sense?
Certainly, I don't question the motive for the conversation at all. Its completely appropriate.
quote: They actually do not. All knowledge of the City is from references to it by other cultures in their own languages. In fact, when they go through the door is when they see the first examples of the language of the people who built the City.
I'd just have to wonder why this would be the case. Ancient cities have language use all over the place. Why behind this particular door and not anywhere else in the city?
quote: As far as the dialogue thing, what would people suggest for doing the same thing in a more "natural" manner (although it already seems natural to me, if its weird to everyone else I'd like to know how they think it could be improved.)
quote:I'd just have to wonder why this would be the case. Ancient cities have language use all over the place. Why behind this particular door and not anywhere else in the city?
Ooo now that is a good question. I will have to bear that in mind as I continue. However, I still am reasonbly sure they wouldn't have had time to really come to understand the language and thereby determine the City's original name.
That and I am simply rather uncomfortable doing invented-langauge stuff, especially in modern/real world setting pieces.
Does the new version sound any better to you? Bear in mind that Kathy is a highly educated academic and probably also a bit obsessive/compulsive...
quote: Ooo now that is a good question. I will have to bear that in mind as I continue. However, I still am reasonbly sure they wouldn't have had time to really come to understand the language and thereby determine the City's original name.
I think it would be more plausible if you put it that way. The language symbols would be throughout the city, just not unraveled yet. It would all depend on how new this civilization was to the archaeologist's world.
I think the dialog sounds a bit better in the second version. I might tweak the lines like so:
Eric smiled at her. “Are you ready to uncover the wonders of the ancient world." [I removed supernatural because how do they know there is anything supernatural involved? I am sure there is, I just think it might be more interesting if they are not expecting it.]
"I've been read for over a year," Kathy replied. "Oh, much longer thank that." [Here I used Oh because it conveys a mild emotional response to what Kathy just said.] Kathy nodded. “But when we found the ruins, I knew this was it. Then it was just a matter of finding the spot.”
I wanted to tweak this last line where Kathy talks about finding the spot, just not sure how. You said she is a highly educated academic. I think it might be interesting to use some archaeological/academic jargon in her dialog. This would be especially likely amongst two colleagues in the same field, as I assume these two are.
posted
Chiming in, the dialog does sound better in the second version, but still doesn't quite flow right. I think it does read as a moment of reflection and not as simply *plot/info* in a speech bubble. Derek's example is good too, but something still feels a little off to me. I think I can't decide whether Eric's first line is supposed to be taken. Is it joking or serious? Do Eric and Katherine believe there to be something supernatural about what they named "the last door" or do they believe that the original inhabitants thought there was something supernatural about the place? I assume this becomes clearer as the story continues, and knowing that it is a fantasy story I assume some supernatural element is going to spring up but it is unclear what Eric and Katherine are really expecting. Just something to think about which may help the reader (or at least me) with the feel and flow of the dialogue.
Posts: 99 | Registered: Feb 2009
| IP: Logged |
posted
In response to both Osiris and bemused, about the supernatural: Katherine does, I think, at least somewhat believe that certain legends about the city, involving a source of knowledge and/or supernatural power, are in fact true. Belief or disbelief in the supernatural and spiritual is a strong theme in much of my writing.
Osiris, I think I like your idea about "Oh."
Thanks again to everybody, your comments have definitely helped me.
posted
I keep thinking on a line in one of the dvds on some program about ancient Egypt and ancient Palestine. The narrator was going on about how the ruins in Egypt were covered in writing and those others were mute in comparison.
Printer-friendly view of this topic
