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Author Topic: Since everyone that cares has already seen X2...
Survivor
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Did anyone notice the review OSC gave the X-Men sequel? Just so that no one thinks I'm exaggerating, I quote:
quote:
Speaking of X2, the X-Men sequel, what is there to say? It never lost my attention, but it also never won my heart. At the end, when one of the good guys died -- an absolutely unnecessary and meaningless death, too -- several scenelets were devoted to getting all mournful about this character's "sacrifice." I kept waiting for somebody to say, "If (unnamed character) could part a flood and lift a ship from outside, why not lift it from inside and not die?"

But the only place where that question got asked was in the audience.

Uncle Orson reviews Everything


He then goes on to say something about connecting X-Men films to reality...which I really didn't understand.

I suppose the point is that OSC doesn't seem to have watched the movie all the way to the end, nor does he seem to have even watched the part where Jean Gray (is there a hypen...and is is "Gray" like the American color or "Grey" like the British colour?) "dies". I put that in quotes because of course, anyone that has also watched Harry Potter 2 knows that she didn't actually die.

And of course, Wolverine asks the very question that OSC didn't stick around long enough to hear, though he employs the positive, "Why did she leave the ship?" instead of the negative "Why didn't she...". To which Patrick Stewart responds with something about her following her own destiny or something, which let me know that he was in the know...so I had to restrain my devious laughter for Logan and Scott( ).

Of course, just to make absolutely certain that no one in the audience misses the joke, the final scene is a sweeping view of the lake where our heroine has "died" and her voice reiterating some psuedo-science babble about how sometimes evolution makes a giant leap, as the surface of the lake glitters with a fiery orange light that appears suspiciously like a stylized outline of a fantastic bird...at which point I was thinking...or may have actually said out loud, "why don't they just come out and say it?"

On the other hand, I can understand why Uncle Orson didn't like the movie so well, though he probably won't admit it. After all, however obvious the fate of Jean Gray may have been to anyone with even a passing acquaintance with the X-Men (I've read about three X-Men comic books in my life, and I've hated every animated version I've seen, but I got the point well before Jean Gray did her little disappearing trick), no one could miss the--shall I say "striking"?--resemblance a certain evil character in the movie bore to a certain beloved person of whom we all know.

Am I not circumspect? Have I not hidden my meaning in riddles that no mortal mind could possibly penetrate? Have I not...what do you mean, "no"?


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Survivor
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By the way, didn't the X-Men used to have a name for that rather fantastic aircraft so that they didn't end up calling it "the ship" all the time? After reading OSC's review (prior to seeing the movie), I was expecting an actual seagoing vessel caught in an tidal wave or something (and I consequently thought it was Storm who got herself killed, but that's another matter). I have to admit, probably as a direct result of OSC's review (particularly combined with the unfortunate lameness of the previous movie) I was more than pleasantly surprised by how good X2 was. Ian Mcsomething and Patrick Stewart were even better than in the first movie (and they carried the first movie on their backs...with a little help from their minions) and everyone else was far better than before.

Now I'm all wanting to see it again.


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Survivor
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By the way, I would want to see Spirited Away again as well, except that some part of me doesn't understand that it was a movie and it didn't really happen to me. I don't even know who I was, but I remember those days on the other side of the river.
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Rahl22
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The ship is called "The Blackbird" I believe. And I enjoyed it aswell.
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James Maxey
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I'm a huge comic book fan and know all about the Dark Phoenix storyline, but I have to say my reaction to the climax of the second X-man movie was less than positive. First, these movies should be made to be enjoyed by all viewers, not just fans of the comic book who might be unfamiliar with characters and histories. Second, can anyone tell me what in the world Bobby Drake (Iceman) was doing in this movie if he wasn't there to freeze the wall of water? And aren't floods kind of covered by Storm's power? And, again, why get out of the plane? Jean Grey's powers are purely mental. She should have been able to pull off her stunt from anywhere. If she got out of the plane to fake her death, that's believable in the context of her comic book history, but almost no groundwork was laid for this in the movie.

I should say that the first two thirds of the movie were a blast, perhaps the finest superheroics yet to be captured on film. But the end of the film left me cold. In addition to the death of Jean Grey, the film makes it look as if Xavier threatens the President while he's making a speach on live television. Xavier's mental powers are good, but are we expected to believe that he has the power to halt television signals? That American's might not notice their president stopping and staring blankly for two or three minutes while Xavier gives his speech, even if he's doing it mentally? In all, the ending felt like it was written by a committee of not terribly good storytellers.

--James Maxey


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cvgurau
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True, but the effect was kind of cool.
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Christine
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I have to agrew tih James. I did NOT read the comic books growing up. The only thing I knew about X-Men before watching the movies was what my brother told me, so if anyone's interested in hearing the point of view of someone whose only knowledge of X-Men is from the movies, read on.

First, let me say, I liked both movies. I liked most of the second movie even better than the first. However, the ending of X2 was pretty bad, even though I *did* figure out what was going on. (A few minutes after I left the theatre, to be honest.) I was still left with a bad taste in my mouth. Maybe all you comic book fans thought it was all perfectly obvious what was going on and that's what was meant to be but I just didn't see it that way. I saw a woman who had no reason to die, go off and sort of kill herself. Maybe X3 will explain it, but I don't think you should either have to wait until the next movie or have read the comic books to understand something so critical.

Then I saw Xavier whip up another new power. Apparently he can stop time or something, because he did not just stop the people, he stopped the cameras....they really do stretch these powers to the breaking point. BTW, how on earth would Mystique be able to match another person so precisely that she can duplicate their retina? That's been bothering me since the 1st movie. Am I the only person who is wondering that? Maybe you comic book fans can clear it up.

Christine


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Hildy9595
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I, too, was passingly acquainted with the comic books, enough to know about Jean's transition to Phoenix, then Dark Phoenix. However, I don't think the movie succeeded in explaining Jean's true motives in leaving the plane and "drowning." It seemed pretty clear that she did it to save everyone, not to meet any sort of destiny, and from that perspective, I totally agree with OSC...there was no reason she couldn't do that from inside the plane, or let Storm stop the water, or let Iceman freeze it.

Don't get me wrong, I thought the flick overall was very well done--lots of fun. Ian McKellan was riveting, Patrick Stewart really became Professor X, and everyone else did a fine job as well. I just thought the ending wasn't logical as it was presented. Perhaps X3 will clarify...I'll certainly be in the theater to find out!

Now, if y'all want to really torture yourselves, let's discuss The Matrix Reloaded mythology...bwa-ha-ha!


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Survivor
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Yeah, a lot of the criticism seems to center around the "that is sooo not realistic!" argument. To which I say...did you see the rest of the movie?

I thought it was Storm that stopped the flood because the reference to a ship made me think that it was a tidal flood, i.e. a form of weather that Storm might have controlled. Obviously, a breaking dam is not weather. Apparently Jean-Grey was under some form of compulsion related to her transformation, they had her lose control of herself enough times during the movie that I didn't have a problem with that. I have to admit, I thought the little sequence with the pres at the end was more than a little cheezy, but it would have been bad for Xavier to simply mind control him instead of using sweet persuasion (though that whole thing with Striker's kid does sort of bring to mind that proverb about the power to persuade becoming the power to compell).

How in the world can Mystique walk around naked in the artic?

Still waiting for someone to agree with me about why Card really didn't like it


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James Maxey
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Why, exactly, didn't he like it Survivor? You are being too subtle for me, I fear.

--James


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James Maxey
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The other thing about the "realistic" argument is that people will accept just about any rules you care to set in fiction. If you say your character can fly and turn invisible after she gets struck by radioactive lightning, most people would shrug and go along for the ride. Where you don't get away with being unrealistic, though, is in human behavior. It doesn't matter how physically different your character is or how exotic the setting, people connect and identify with characters based on sympathy with their emotional reactions to situations. This is what makes it possible to watch a movie about one fish in search of another fish... the characters and settings are as far removed from humans as possible, but the emotional situations are immediately recognizable. When people complain that Jean Grey's death was unrealistic, they don't mean that is was implausible due to the powers she possessed. They mean that they can't empathize with why she got out of the ship. It doesn't make sense on a gut or emotional level. It may make sense from a purely plot level in order to move on to the next movie, but plot doesn't trump character, and this character acted outside the bounds of the behavior we had been led to expect from her.

I'll shut up now and go pick on the Matrix.

--James


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Survivor
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Okay, I guess that I just didn't have a problem understanding why she got out of the ship. It really made a lot of sense...to me.
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