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Author Topic: Action
cvgurau
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I can't for the life of me write an action scene. Don't know why, but it's frustrating as all hell. Going back to read what I have, I have to glue my eyes to the page, because it's so boring, and so mundane, and so not action-packed that it makes my eyes wander.

Anyone have any advice, because I'm in desperate need for some.

CVG


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Survivor
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Write in POV.

Okay, I'll expand on that a little. Writing an action sequence depends on having at least some experience with actiony type stuff. It doesn't have to be real action, so long as you have at least enough life experience to get a baseline. You probably drive a car, right? Think back to a time when some jerk nearly got you killed. That's a data point. Write about that experience from your point of view. Maybe you play sports. Write about some amazing feat of physical prowess you displayed, something that totally surprised you. You are a human. That means that you've done stupid stuff. Write about something stupid you did.

Try and get your entire experience, everything you thought and felt, onto the page. Voila! You've written some action sequences. If they are all boring, then cut out the boring parts. If they are still boring, then I have nothing left. But I'm assuming that they will at least be a bit interesting to you.

And now you know how to write an action sequence. You know what things are interesting and which things are boring. You have written it in a POV.


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Kolona
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I've noticed that in action scenes I critique, the more mundane the detail, the worse they are. Sort of the 'He got up, stretched, put on his slippers...' beginning, but in an action scene. I think the worst scenes are when a writer tries to give a blow by blow account of a fight. Save it for film. Encapsulate it and give me some mental stuff as it happens.
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RillSoji
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Ugh! I have the same problem. Over time I've found something that helps me. It's complicated but it works *shrugs*

Let's say we have two people that are going to swordfight. I get a couple pewter figurines that somewhat represent the characters. Then I set them up on a paper, on which I've drawn a rough overhead view of the area. Decide on a timing sequence and a basic set of questions to ask in each scene. I've found that 5 to 10 seconds per scene works well. Keeping in mind that I only have 5-10 seconds of thoughts and actions I then I ask questions and take notes. Who is moving? Why did they choose to move that way? Is this person scared? If not, what is this person thinking/feeling? How does this person react to that movement? Is this person skilled or are they surviving on random dumb luck?

Once I've asked as many questions as I can think of, I move on to the next scene until all is done. Then I take my notes to the computer and start typing. The hardest part is cutting out information that is not essential to the scene. Don't copy your notes into your story.

I know it probably won't work for most people but it really works for me Hope it at leasts helps and triggers some ideas for you!


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Pyre Dynasty
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I watch old Kung-Fu movies. Perhaps not to watch the fight sequences but hear the philosophy of the fighting.
I also took some Karate till I scewed up my ankle.
Always remember that everybody moves at the same time and you'll do fine.
Of course you could always go with OSC's Insult sword fighting. where it matters more what they say to each other than what they do with their weapons. But of course differently cause you can't rip his off.
(even though I wrote a fun but compleatly usless scene with his insults.)

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JBShearer
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Action scenes are tricky. It think good action scenes are almost an innate ability, but it doesn't have to be that way, you CAN learn. Here's a few pointers:

-Pace, pace, pace. To speed it up, use quick sentences. To slow it down, add a little exposition. For effective action, you'll want to use a varying pattern. Where 1=fast and 2=slow, 1221122211121121111. (Get it? I don't.)

-Be descriptive but not overdescriptive. To keep your tight pace, use quick descriptions and comments.

-Clean, stylize. Remove any unnecessary material and stylize whatever action you can. Don't know what I mean by stylize? Use colloquial phrases (not too many) for certain actions, ones that most people will be familliar with.

-When dealing with combat, research actual terms/weapons/styles. Nothing will upset a well-informed reader more than leaving these details out. Know what kind of swords/guns/lightsabers that your characters are using, their strengths and weaknesses, and a little about how they are used differently than other weapons of their type. Make sure if you use specialized terms that you follow with common ones.

-Watch some action movies. For asian-style fighting, watch Legend of the Drunken Master. For more generic swordplay, the new Star Wars movies are great. For stylized action ideas, watch Kill Bill. Maybe throw in Big Trouble in Little China for kicks.

-Action scenes can use repeated references to a weapon or object. Be sure not to repeat the same word too many times. I.e. sword, sword, sword, his sword, my sword. Mix it up with the Proper name, katana; other pronouns, blade; and vague nouns, weapon.

-Write clearly and concisely. The reader can't question for one second who is doing what. Otherwise the illusion is broken.

-If it doesn't sound right, rewrite.

-Remember to use the environment.

-Lastly, vary up your action. Have a quickly twisting sub-plotline with rapidfire changes. Don't just swordfight, throw in dialogue. Don't just blow things up, get inventive. Be ingenious.


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cvgurau
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Don't judge me ( ), but in a perhaps vain attempt to recapture some semblance of my rapidly escaping youth, I've been rereading the Animorphs...(I hesitate to use the word) saga, and I've noticed that KA Applegate does action with great skill. Her characters move quickly and with purpose, and the reader is told not only what's going on, but also what the POV character is thinking.

It's pretty impressive

CVG

PS--Thanks all, for your help.


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Survivor
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Remember, many verbs imply the weapon used. Any kick is going to be with the foot or associated gear, a slash or thrust implies a sword...once we know what weapons each combatant is using, there isn't much need to specify that Eric is chopping at Fred with his axe and Fred is blocking with his shield...we will assume both from the words "chop" and "block".

As above, if Eric decides to chop with his head and Fred blocks with his knee...we'd need to be told that, because neither is what we'd expect.


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wetwilly
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I agree with everything you said except one thing, JB: The one tip where you said to mix up the name of the weapon with other weapon name synonyms. If your character is using a sword, I think the word "sword" will generally suffice. It just gets annoying if Zorro picks up his SWORD, lunges with his BLADE, parries with his RAPIER, and finally sheaths his WEAPON. It has the same effect as changing name tags for variety. Just saying "Luke" is fine, no need to flip through "The Jedi", "Skywalker", "The Young Warrior", and "The Wussy Crybaby" in the next four sentences. The reader is likely to read past Zorro's sword just like he's likely to read past Luke. The tags are not noticed, and therefore not repetitive. Changing them up just adds confusion.

If you do find that your usage of the sword/gun/katana/bazooka/brass knuckles/whatever is getting repetetive and annoying, try doing what Survivor suggested. Often, the whole tag can just be dropped once the reader knows what weapon the character is using.


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Alias
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quote:
but in an action scene. I think the worst scenes are when a writer tries to give a blow by blow account of a fight. Save it for film. Encapsulate it and give me some mental stuff as it happens.

I agree with this sentiment.

I think it is important to emphasize the conflict and demonstrate the struggle involved, the shift in dominance during the battle ... but not blow by blow.

I think the reader will imagine up the blow by blow part for themselves if you give them the rest,
to me, "their blades cycloned together in a torrent of sparks," is much more interesting and illuminating than, "he threw the rapier in a desperate parry leftward, the colliding steel shook as he rebounded backwards, readying for his opponents next lunge..."

The reason why blow by blow commentary doesn't work in literature, according to me, is simple: Action is interesting because its fast, the more detail you give the fight the slower the passage flows ... slow action just isn't good action. I mean, when was the last slow motion car chase that was truly exhilirating? My advise: Be concise.

[This message has been edited by Alias (edited April 14, 2004).]


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Jsteg1210
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One good tactic is to try to think about what the character would really notice and think. If you think back to the most action packed moments of your life, what were the details you noticed right away? If you thought any words at all (besides explatives), how relevant were they to what's going on? Use these answers to guide you.

If you use more description, the result is a kind of freeze-frame surrealism. If you pair it down too much, the result is confusion. It all depends on the state of mind you want to lead the reader into.


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FiveSides
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Yeah, the point about writing about what the character is feeling is right. Those small events that are insignificant to the plot often have dramatic effects. I'd read up on "The Red Badge of Courage." Metaphores are great dramatic effects. "The sun shined like a red wafer." <- paraphrased

~James
I didn't run, I regrouped


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Survivor
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Ooh, I second who'sit...Alias. Remember that slow motion should be used selectively in action sequences, and that verbose description slows down the perception of motion.

Don't bother to describe things that are "obvious", like the feel of a successful parry or the sounds that weapons ordinarily make in combat. Reserve description for the pivotal elements, those tiny fulcrums in time on which hang the outcome of the battle. The moment that something goes terribly wrong, or an unexpected opening becomes apparent.


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Alias
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Yes! Thanks Survivor, you took what I said and enhanced it! Yes, detail for pivotal moments, very good. I was trying to think you to say that before, but now I clearly don't need to, thanks.

[This message has been edited by Alias (edited April 16, 2004).]


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Survivor
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Ah, Professor Hill's famous "think" method.

I'm going to go practice it some.


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arcanist
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This is an interesting topic, one I've though on in the past. Maybe you could give me a little advice, I'll post a short clip of a fight from a novel I'm working on. It's taken out of context, so some things may seem a tad strange, but basically the girl Alayna is fighting an inanimate doll made by magic to match it opponent's skill, no more no less. Also, bare in mind that this is written from the perspective of the main character, Tobias, watching these two fight. I did put some actual research into the fighting style here, based on a native american twin-dagger fighting style, so anyway, input would be appreciated.


Alayna stood before Stix, two daggers in her hands, two wooden daggers in his own. Tobias stopped to watch.
Alayna jumped with a high lunging kick which Stix ducked and shoulder-rolled away from her, effectively causing the two of them to trade positions. Alayna did a short split, kicking low with her left foot before jumping to her right hand and side kicking with both feet at his chest. Stix swept her feet aside with both hands before bringing the daggers down at her like incisors. She rolled to the left, then to the right and sprang to her feet, kicking him backwards. The doll stood and the two charged, sweeping high, sweeping low, stabbing, twisting, slashing, moving faster and more fluidly than Tobias could ever imagine anyone doing. Any time he had ever seen anyone fight, fighting had always been a rigid, tightly controlled thing. Alayna, and Stix by extension, fought uncontrolled, loose, unpredictable, flowing from move to move. Like water, they flowed and drifted before crashing down powerfully, drawing back, and striking again. Tobias was drawn in, hypnotized, and it was incredible.
Stix kicked high, Alayna grabbed his foot in mid-air. He rolled forward and slammed his foot after him, bringing Alayna along with it. She let go in mid-swing, twisting her posture, coming to her feet and sliding for a moment in the dirt before catching Stix's dagger in mid-air with her own, kicking his foot out of her center, and both of them came to rest with their daggers at each other's throats.


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sojoyful
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All: should the rule of 13 apply here?

arcanist, this might be a personal taste thing, but I didn't even dare read your snippet. Why? To me, big long paragraphs sink action's battleship. Since, in action, things move fast and change fast, it makes sense that new paragraphs would keep cropping up. I want my eye to be jumping to new paragraphs as action jumps around, not getting lost in the middle of a huge chunk.

The other thing is that when my eye wandered over, it spotted tons of "ing" verbs. You have to vary the style. Keep doing one grammatic thing over and over, and it gets laborious. The reader will start remembering they're reading a book.

Edited for unnecessary adverbs.

[This message has been edited by sojoyful (edited December 08, 2005).]


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sojoyful
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I changed my mind and came back to read it.

It's a major blow-by-blow, and that's more than tiresome. "twisting her posture"?? That's a level of detail we don't need. Everybody changes their posture several times a minute. So much so, that it has become invisible to us in real life. Stuff like that should also be invisible to us when we're reading it. Unless it's significant, don't tell us.

[This message has been edited by sojoyful (edited December 08, 2005).]


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TruHero
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I could stoop to re-writing this, but I hate that. So I will say this.
Start with your opening sentance and close with your ending sentance. Leave space for 3 to 5 sentances maximum in between, and that is your fight.
This should be a quick fight,and the action needs to start and end quickly too. This reads almost like a play by play from a script. You are telling me the scene, when you should be painting it for me. If this is to be from Tobias' POV, it needs to be drawn from deeper in his thoughts and feelings. Take Survivors suggestion from above. "WRITE IN POV". Words to live by.

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Elan
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When it comes to presenting fragments of your writing, the 13 line rule applies no matter where you post. Keep in mind all requests to critique/brainstorm/analyze fragments belong in the F&F forum.
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Jeraliey
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For more feedback, arcanist, you can post your snippet in the Fragments and Feedback forum to solicit some critiques.
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Jeraliey
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Ha. Hi, Elan! ::waves::
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hoptoad
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Elan, is that true? Seems to make sense, but I don't remember it in the rules.

I may have missed it.


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Elan
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quote:
We ask that writers post no more than the first thirteen lines (in manuscript format using 12-point courier font) of any story here on the Hatrack website for very good reasons.

Kathleen has this posted in the "Please Read Here First" forum, under the title "Why 13 lines?"

The rationale behind the 13 line limit applies, no matter which forum you post in.


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lehollis
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I think what is important in a fight scene is the character's thoughts and emotions. Beyond that, only make sure the outcome is clear. Who won? Who was injured? How fatigued are they now?

If your POV character is a skilled fighter and likely to note specific blow-by-blow exchanges, then that may have place in the story. (As with any rule, be mindful of the risks.) If not, think of it like trying to describe one of those kung-fu movies a few minutes after the show ends. There was a lot of kicking and punching. A few memorable things might stand out, but you probably couldn't give a play-by-play choreography of the fight.

For instance, in Arcanist's scene, I got bored after the first line of play-by-play. The character's internal thoughts on the fight were interesting, but much of the detail could be trimmed (or at least moved and seeded throughout the POV thoughts). Focus on the characters, on thoughts and emotions. (I give this as an example of my point, not as feedback to Arcanist, since this isn't F&F.)

I prefer to only use specific move descriptions in very short fights or when that move is important to the story, like if a character's life-long foe has one move he can never counter. In that case, it's good to describe the move, as well as the eventual counter.

Speaking of which, I need to go look at the fight scene in my WIP now.


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arcanist
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Thanks, I'll take your criticisms in mind. I'm new here, so I didn't know about the thirteen line thing, but I'll keep that in mind. Also remember that this was taken out of context; this wasn't a full fight (dialogue, then conflict, then outcome) so much as a little a snippet, and I think I may in fact trim it down a little. But thanks, a huge part of my story is combat, so this is important. It just bothers me when a novelist says something like 'Their swords flew like lightning and spark flashed left and right' and leave it at that. At the same time, I think I may need to work on toning it down. I think mostly just a balance is neccesary.
But yeah, this is a message board not a novel in itself, so I'll stop my ranting.

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Leigh
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I do karate and spar a lot! So when it comes to say martial arts writing or hand to hand, I can write it from my own POV.

Sowrds, daggers and other weapons are little to no difficulty for me as I'm trained with the katana and broadsword as well. Yes, I was a bored teen so I learned something I believe is useful.


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KatFeete
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For action scenes, I tend to write very short. If the action was something people were expecting - a battle, a showdown - then I focus on the buildup, trying to make it so spectacular that the few brief lines of actual action are packed with residual emotion. If the action is something unexpected - a car crash, an ambush - then there's basically a short jumble of images and impressions:

"You -" She grabbed him by the collar, even more infuriated because she had to reach up to get hold, intending to yank him down to her eye level; Tarpan, still laughing, moved forward to interfere, the spacer kicked her in the knee, she lost her balance and staggered backwards, pulling the spacer with her, and then there was a low buzz of noise and the soft thunk of something hitting the wall behind where she'd been standing and she turned the stagger into a lunge, toppling to the ground with him on top of her, and then she was rolling and Tarpan was yelling and the wall exploded.

(Yes, that's one sentence. Ten lines in my word processor, so with luck I'm not in trouble.)

This is obviously followed up by a sorting-out period where the characters figure out what the hell just happened. The point is, though, that real-life action tends to happen very very fast, and I try to reflect this. It's also short to read, which is good, because blow-by-blow action is dead boring.

There are many other tricks like this, all of which are doing the same "focus on emotions, not on actions" thing. One I particularly remember is from the Gregory Keyes novel Briar King, in which the foppish fencer character realizes he's completely screwed; it goes completely against my "short" rule and involves a several-paragraph flashback that helps explain why the fencer is so screwed (You do not fence with knights. You run away from them, or you stand on a wall and drop heavy objects on them - from memory, apologies if it's off) and yet it's very effective, far more so than if Keyes had just described his character getting pulped.

The real problem with action scenes is that they are, as frequently written, a big block of the same kind of text. Do you write huge chunks of description? No. Talking heads? No. So don't write pure action scenes. Break 'em up however you have to, and you should be okay.

[This message has been edited by KatFeete (edited December 09, 2005).]


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