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Author Topic: Writer's Laziness (not block)
ArCHeR
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I seem to have a problem. I'm absolutely sure that I could write a lot of my story, but I'm having a hard time getting over my laziness to actually do so. In fact, I'm having trouble doing reports for school also (although that has a little more reason to it ).

I really do WANT to write, but for some reason I keep finding myself watching TV, or playing a game (is it perhaps just the fact that Rome: Total War is so great a game?).

I need a shot in the arm or something. Any suggestions, thoughts, or similar problems?


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Balthasar
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Sorry, you DON'T want to write. If you wanted to write, you would be writing. It's that simple. What you like is the idea of writing, or the idea of having written. But you don't like to write. You don't like to sit down and put words on paper, to see sentences develop, and paragraphs, to craft scenes and write dialogue, and everything else that comes about when you follow the fundamental rule of writing: Butt In Chair.

And that's the secret of writing. Butt in chair. You have to have a schedule. You have to say I'm going to sit down and write between ten and midnight (or whenever) every day. And you sit your butt down and write. When the time's up, you're done for the day. You may have four or five pages, or only one, or just a couple of paragraphs, or a number of false starts. And that's all right, because that's how it is done.

But until you start doing that--until you start putting Butt In Chair--I'll keep on saying that you really DON'T want to write.


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Dude
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You have to decide that writing is more important than games or TV. If it is not for you, then write when you want to. There is no one recipe for being a good writer. Balthasar hit upon the one that is most widely pushed, but writing every day is not for everyone. I think you have to write as much as makes you happy. Set realistic goals that you know you can follow realizing that you will progress as a writer at the pace that you set for yourself.

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ArCHeR
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No, I DO want to write, and I have written and enjoyed it. I still do enjoy it. If someone loves playing basketball was just being lazy for a while and didn't play, that doesn't change their love of the game.
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wetwilly
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Yeah, don't worry Archer; pretty much everything Balthasar said is dead wrong. He was just making snap judgements about something he knows nothing about, namely you.

As for the laziness thing, I don't know that there are any tips on how to overcome it. All I can say is, turn off the T.V./video game and write. That's all there is to it. You just have to do it.

That applies to pretty much everything in life, by the way. When there's something you want to achieve, when it get's right down to it you just have to do it, and that's all there is to it. Simple, but unfortunately not usually easy.


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Tess
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Set goals for yourself.

Do you want to write for personal reasons, to hash out problems and make sense of things? Do you want to write a story you can show friends, maybe something a teacher would grade well? Do you want to publish a short story? Do you want to write a book? Have you written anything that would receive glowing compliments from all participants in this forum? Is the last item possible?

Take a look at your goals and choose something you feel is achievable, and then take a good look at what you've done to further those goals. If you want to publish a short story, for example, have you looked around at the market to see where you might submit it, maybe read a little bit of what's out there to see how you compare and to get some inspiration?

You can sit that butt in a chair all you want, but without a clear idea of what you're trying to do, without a game plan and lots of honesty, not to mention a genuine commitment, you're not going to get very far. It's a personal thing, and only you can figure it out, so start plugging away and see where it takes you.


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yanos
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Actually I think a lot of it comes down to habit and not laziness. Some people are healped by erstablishing a routine. Balthazar may find out that there are many published writers who go or have gone through the same problems you have... namely distractions.

Their solution was to find a place or time when they wouldn't be distracted. There are other ways... make playing your game a reward. Say to yourself (and be firm) that unless you write **** words today you cannot play. I started doing that and before I knew it I wanted to write more than i wanted to play. So many things are addictive, writing is one of them.

I think also you are disjointed, in that you write so spoardaically which makes it much harder, becasue you have to remind yourself of plot,characters, progress from last time... Very slow.


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hoptoad
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I tend to write until my ideas are all gone then have no desire to write for a while. It was a bad habit. Writing less (words) and enjoying it more was the key for me. I refuse to flop out all my ideas in one sitting now.

I also ride my bike (or go work in the shed) instead of replacing writing with some other sedentary pastime.


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Magic Beans
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quote:
I need a shot in the arm or something.

Shoot yourself in the arm: the pain will make everything quite clear...

Kidding.

There are times when I know I'm not ready to write a particular scene because it's incubating in my subconscious. When I can't stand it any longer, I'll write it, and it usually comes out killer, with little need for revision other than to tighten it up.

I am a very procrastinating person by nature, and in order to get anything done at all, I keep up an ever-shifting kaleidoscope of deferred tasks. Whenever I don't feel like working on something, I just work on something I didn't feel like working on earlier.

I have many interests other than writing, such as drawing and computers. I don't beat myself up if I don't write every single day, but I hardly go a day without writing.

[This message has been edited by Magic Beans (edited November 28, 2004).]


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Christine
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Hey Archer, I'm back from a week in London where I found a fresh supply of new ideas. But first I decided to see how all my friends on Hatrack were doing.

Archer, I feel your pain. Balthasar, I have no idea what you're talking about. It's not as simple as you'd write if you wanted to write. Writing is hard. It takes effort, especially if Archer is the type who wants to write well and nor just spawn rubbish.

In the end, though, BIC is the answer. I can only help by adding a couple of things to make BIC easier. First of all, find the same TIME every day to do it. It doesn't matter what time it is, an hour before dawn, right before you go to bed, over lunmch, at 5 in the afternoon....just fine a time at always always always write during that time. Second, find a SPACE where you write. It doesn't matter where that is. Wel, not much, anyway. I recommend a relatively private place especially if you're one of those wandering around here with a spouse or kids. But whatever it is, your study, your bedroom, the park, ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS write there.

The reason I suggesti these things is based on very simple human psychology. If you want to look it up check out behavioral psychology and more specifically, classical (also called Pavlovian) conditioning. By having you do something at the same time and in the same place every day we are creating a set of stimuli that, after a time, will come to mean I MUST WRITE!!! to your brain. At first, it will be difficult. It's going to be a bit like starting a physical exercise program, making yourself do it, just making yourself do it. But soon (and I don't know how long, it will vary based on the person and their commitment, I imagine) it will be your time to write.

So find a good chair at a good time and get your butt in it!


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J
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Archer, I experience your problem all the time (albeit with different obstacles). I often give myself a 'shot in the arm' by remembering Aristotle:

“Character is that which reveals moral purpose, exposing the class of things a man chooses and avoids.”

"We are what we repeatedly do."


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Robyn_Hood
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I'm going to make a leap here (but I think others have as well so here goes):

It may not be so much about laziness, but could be more of a burn out thing. You mentioned writing reports for school, well, when I was taking classes a couple of years ago, I hit a subtle burn-out point. I was doing so much school-related writing and news writing (studying to become a journalist) that even when I did think of a cool fiction idea, I couldn't get past that point. Just the thought of sitting down and writing a creative story, made me feel tired and more glued to my seat on the couch.

I tried a lot of things - outlining, sitting with a BIC and pad of paper on the couch, writing openings - but nothing really worked. So what has gotten me writing again? Well, being out of school and away from the mundane writing tasks, for one. When I felt like I had to write, it took away a lot of my drive to write.

If you honestly believe that it is just laziness, then yes, scheduling a time to write may work. Perhaps even finding something that makes you write to a deadline, just to get started. (I'll put in a shameless plug here for Dakota and the Hatrack Re-write Challenge. These have helped me produce one rough story for each the past three months. They may not all be saleable, but at least I'm writing fiction again.)

If, on the other hand, you feel like you already do alot of writing and doing any more just makes you run for the comfort of Rome: Total War, then you may indeed need that break. You just may not be ready to write, even if a big part of you thinks you are.


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autumnmuse
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I am a big procrastinator. I have had to come to terms with the fact that I absolutely do not function without deadlines. If I need to clean my kitchen, I invite someone over who will comment about how dirty it is if I don't get it clean, and that makes me get my rear in gear to get it done. If I want to lose weight, I have to set a certain poundage goal by a certain date and tell everyone, or it doesn't happen. If I want to write a novel, I have to do NaNoWriMo. I realize that may not work for you, but I've been amazed at how well it is working for me. Now, I am passionate about many things. But the ONLY way for me to do the things, even if I love them, is to set goals. I will finish this cross-stitch project by Christmas, et cetera. Make your goals specific and reachable. Not, "by the time I have three children I'll be published" but, "By the end of this month I'll have written 25,000 words" or whatever.
Go for it!!!

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dpatridge
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making deadlines has an ill effect on me... a deadline actually reduces my productivity.

for me, BIC only works so far, when i'm done, i'm done, whether i hold my butt in the chair yet or not...

so basically, i can only try to put my butt where it belongs, and start writing for a while, once the ideas stop flowing out and start eddying around each other instead, i know it's time to stop until ideas become developed again.


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Beth
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I'm very much like autumnmuse in this! Unless I have an irresistable inspiration (and how often does that happen? ha!) I am extremely unproductive without deadlines - nano is great for me, but I haven't quite figured out how to get BIC during the rest of the year.
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djvdakota
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quote:
Do you want to publish a short story? Do you want to write a book?

Well? Do you? I do. And the only way that's going to happen is for me to implement the ol' BIC method, because like it or not, that's what gets them written. From putting those first awkward words on paper to fine-tuning that first publisher-grabbing 13 words to typing that beautiful THE END. BIC. No one wrote a book on paper made of dreams and with ink made of ideas. It takes work. Lots of it. Scary, huh?

quote:
Balthasar hit upon the one that is most widely pushed, but writing every day is not for everyone. I think you have to write as much as makes you happy.

This is the method, IMO, for people who write for fun, not because they want to have their name on a book in the bookstores so badly they could, well, do something fairly desperate. If you're the kind of writer who writes just for fun--and that's a perfectly valid choice for any writer--then do exactly as this quote suggests. I want my name on that bookstore shelf.

quote:
making deadlines has an ill effect on me... a deadline actually reduces my productivity.

Someone help me out here. Is it not true that writers (even fiction writers) write for deadlines? If you want your name on that bookshelf you'd better learn to respond to the pressure of the deadline. Practice by participating in (and I'll shamelessly plug, too!) the Rewrite Challenge. Just check out "An Invitation to All" in F&F.

Did I sound a bit harsh? Sorry. I'm just trying to be realistic. I'm in this for real. I'm determined to study the craft and do all I can to meet my writing goals. It may not be this year. It may not be until my youngest child is finally out the door and on her way to college. But until it does happen I have to be realistic. I have to prepare myself to be a writer by trade, not a writer by hobby.

Which do you want to be, Archer?

[This message has been edited by djvdakota (edited November 29, 2004).]


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Hildy9595
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"Someone help me out here. Is it not true that writers (even fiction writers) write for deadlines?"

Absolutely correct, Dakota. I've heard several pros comment that you should treasure work on your first book, because if it is purchased and the publisher wants more from you, you will be given a deadline for the next book. That deadline is typically much shorter than you would think and it is drop-dead...in other words, you miss it, you get dropped by the publisher. FYI, the deadlines for tie-in writers are the toughest...the fellow writing the novelization for Serendipity (the movie version of Firefly) was given two weeks. Yes, you read that right, two weeks, start to finish. Oy!

If procrastination and distraction are your issues, try leaving the house to write. Go to the library, or Starbucks, or any other place you can write without access to the television or internet connectivity. Sometimes when all you have is your laptop (or pad and pen) and no options for procrastination, it helps you focus and get the writing done.


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dpatridge
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that's why i'm writing all three of the Searth novels before i ever even consider sending even one of them off.

because i CAN NOT do deadlines. it's absolutely impossible for me. unless it's a deadline that isn't really a deadline, such as the rewrite challenge, finish a short story in a month isn't that big of a challenge, really

i'll have all three written and gotten as well done as i feel i can get them, before i send out my first manuscript, then it'll be deadlines on editing, not writing, and those i can do. just as long as they don't tell me to scrap any chapters and rewrite them entirely... then i wouldn't be able to handle the deadline...


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Phanto
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Look. This is my personal take on it, and as such, not fact or anything. I think it is fairly factual, but that is irrelevent.

Anyway:

You want to write a book? You've got to get your f***ing a** on that chair, again and again. And then you've got to shut off all distractions and focus. Work.

Not an ounce harder -- or an ounce easier -- than that. To force yourself to work on a project like this, one where progress is impossible to objectivly measure, where it is possible to feel hopeless lost, you must reach into your soul. Then you must grab motivation and drag it up.

Take that motivation and with it force yourself to do what you must. Do not let yourself overcome yourself. Do not procrastinate with your goals and deadlines EVER. Once will lead to twice.

And when you do, shrug. Ignore it. Then get up and BACK TO WORK. Do not overwork yourself, do not kill yourself through writing. Take breaks if needed. But they have to be reasonable; and above all, when you get back...NO PROCRASTINATING.

Such is the formula for succees... Suffer, bleed, work. Cry if you like. But do it. Get it done. And then, in the end, look back and gasp.

For you will have made something quite great.


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Survivor
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ArCHeR, if you are not writing, then everyone responding to what you did not write is obviously in need of assistence (with detecting counterfeit posts, if nothing else).

You are not absolutely sure you could write a lot of your story, or you wouldn't be asking us what to do about your laziness (and then reading our useless replies, which will not help you overcome laziness). You would be using your time at the computer to write some of your story (and don't tell me that it isn't your computer etc., you have internet access so you could just mail yourself the text).

If you were absolutely sure that you could write a lot of your story, but were doing things other than writing, then you would already know the reason. Getting those things done is more important to you right now than writing your story.

There is no shame in this (unless writing is currently your sole means of supporting a family or stopping a terrible injustice or something like that). I take breaks from writing all the time (though not usually when I know exactly what I'm going to write). There are stories that I really know I could write that I don't really want to write, for instance.

But as I said, this isn't your problem. You're not suffering from laziness, people suffering from simple laziness don't complain about it. You're blocked, and you're telling yourself that it's because your lazy.

There's nothing wrong with being blocked, either. I'm blocked most of the time. All of the time, if you include times when I'm writing one story rather than another because I'm blocked on the other story. And I guess that I'm never so blocked that I can't write anything at all...okay, so I'm not used to complaining about being blocked...or lazy.

Whatever. I'm no good at responding to these sorts of topics. I just wanted to post on this topic.


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bladeofwords
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I think that Robyn makes the most important point of this post. (At least as I read it). After doing Nano I am totally positive that I have a word quotient. If I'm working intensely on one project (2k+ words a day counts) my productivity pretty much drops to zero on all other projects. Essays for school, nope I'm suprised I didn't start failing any classes. College essays, barely (I had to take a break off that day to do it). It's extremely hard to be following two writing projects at once.

It's also possible that you are just burned out. I know that after I finished my first novel I was roasted. I didn't write anything for four months. Take a break, relax, but percolate. I find that when I'm not actually writing that's the most important thing I can do. I come up with ideas and work on plots in my head, finding things that would make good inspiration, and then it finally reaches critical mass and I have to start writing or I'll just die.

Habit is also important. With Nano I had to force myself to start writing almost every day, but after somewhere around 400 words I just took off and I would fly through the rest of my quota, often going a good 400 into the next chunk. The last three times that I wrote I ended up writing 4000 words in a single sitting. I think that a warm-up is a very important thing.

Enough of my jibba-jabba.

Jon


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Pyre Dynasty
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Find a device, some little stupid task that tells your mind to write. I've got some chinese exersise balls that usually do it for me. Also try to seperate your writing from the tv and game for a while. (If Rome is on your computer try some paper.)
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ArCHeR
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quote:
Shoot yourself in the arm: the pain will make everything quite clear...

OK! *BAM!*

quote:
Kidding.

Woops.

I think I'll try setting a quota, instead of a schedual. Quotas fit in easier with a writer's mind, imo, seing as how we don't know when inspiration will hit, but we do know that when it hits, we can write quite a bit...


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Axi
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I read something like "try that when inspiration comes to you, it finds you writing". (Can't remember who said it )

Some writers, like Flaubert, even despise material created when under the influence of passionate inspiration. They sustain that the only key to successful writing is working hard.

I suppose each of us humans have a different way of doing things. You'll have to find one that works for you. But I'm afraid the only way to find that is dedicating some time to write.

(Sorry if anything I said sounds silly)


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Phanto
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Yeah, the inspiration method is a joke. It just won't work, unless you're a remarkably inspired person.
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Jeraliey
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Stop apologizing, Axi. The stuff you say makes sense and is very easy to understand. Don't worry!

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dpatridge
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where do your initial ideas come from if not inspiration? the rest of it is no longer inspiration, at that point it becomes work. but i'm curious as to what other way there is to get an idea to write about in the first place

EDIT: oh, and actually, there is a such thing as pure inspiration writing. i do it all the time with poetry and stories phrased poetically

hmm... that reminds me, i wonder whatever i did with Eagle Man, or something like that, the title slips me right now... anyways, that is an adventure story phrased entirely in a poem! i wrote it, probably one of the last things i wrote before i went dry for a while... i think it was about 10 typed pages long of pure inspiration writing, which i then went back through and cleaned up.

my poem i posted on here when i joined, Month In A Moment, was also pure inspirational writing... the idea came to me in the middle of sacrament meeting of all times!

of course, even poetry is not always done by inspiration for me, i've written my number of poetry that i had to slave over to struggle out even so much as 5 lines written...

so basically i'm saying that inspiration writing is possible, but only for the shortest of short stories and poetry, and even that is rare, and that always my basic ideas come by inspiration

[This message has been edited by dpatridge (edited December 06, 2004).]


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djvdakota
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Inspiration vs. Work.

One thing I find the more I write is that inspiration most often springs FROM work. I get more story ideas as I write and research. I even get story ideas from artwork I'm doing, or from books I'm reading. And since I'm a learning writer, reading is, in part, work--I'm studying and learning from the writers I read.

Inspiration isn't just an epiphany that comes totally out of the blue. 99.9% of the time you have to be working something out in your mind,the very least, in order for inspiration to come. We have to do our portion of the workload in order for God, or the muse or whatever name you like to give your inspirational voice, to pour those awesome ideas into our heads.

Just my opinion.


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Axi
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I completely agree with djvdakota
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ArCHeR
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The Beatles had a method for their craft in the late 60s (67-70): Write high, record sober.

Now, the drugs didn't actually inspire the music, but gave the illusion of a higher state of inspiration. But the theory is still the same. When you're inspired, work out your ideas in your head, or a scrap piece of paper, and later work it out and type it down when you rationalize it out, and give it structure.

My English teacher has the idea of writing something the first time without worrying about structure, grammar, punctuation, spelling, etc. and just worry about getting the idea down, then go back and revise it. Kind of the same thing...


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Balthasar
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True, but it doesn't matter how inspired you are if you don't follow the single-most important rule of writing: Butt In Chair.

Personally, I like Faulkner's idea of inspiration: "I am inspired every day at precisely nine o'clock."


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bladeofwords
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ha ha. Not to say that Butt in Chair is not important, but uninspired writing is insipid and boring. Granted, inspiration for writing does often come when you are forced to actually sit down and rationalize something, because until you actually have to go through step by step you'll probably skip some of the harder parts (that can end up as the cooler parts). Again, more jibba-jabba.

Jon


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kathmandau
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Stephen King suggests that one must separate oneself from all distractions for some period of the day. Physically shut oneself into a room for the purpose of writing.
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J
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I think that's why BiC works so well. Even if you write the worst thing you've ever written during a forced writing session, you'll have something there on paper. You can look at it and say "That's not what I wanted." Then you can mess with it ad infinitum until it is what you wanted.

It's a lot harder to wait for inspiration--that is, to wait around until you're sure that what you want will come out right the first time.


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Robyn_Hood
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Things seldom come out the right the first time. Inspired or not. However, they can still come out well enough to be handed in to teacher .

I guess you can always just say it was inspired. It amazes me how imspired I can become two hours before I need to finish something .


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Balthasar
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The goal is to train yourself to be inspiried. This isn't as crazy as it sounds. Every athlete does it. All of their pre-game rituals help them get in the zone; they prepare themselves mentally for the game. Writers do this to. Their so-called eccentricies aren't so eccentric as they are rituals of getting into the zone.
This is why people always say you need to have a schedule: writing in the same place every day, at the same time, with the same equipment. Like Pavlov's dog, you literally train yourself to act in a certain way at a certain time.

Does it always work? Well, no. Athletes have off days. So do writers. But if you can develop these rituals you'll have more on days than off.



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ArCHeR
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quote:
Not to say that Butt in Chair is not important, but uninspired writing is insipid and boring.

Great Gatsby anyone?


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franc li
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I loved The Great Gatsby. It is one of the only books assigned during high school that I actually read. What is your favorite book?
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Inkwell
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I can sympathize with your plight, ArCHeR, as I have encountered a similar obstacle in my own writing. I suppose it could be called an 'ongoing block' or perhaps 'burn-out syndrome' (the latter most likely caused by relentless college assignments, not a lead foot).

Who knows? I certainly don't, and am not sure that the 'how' of the condition is as important as the 'why'. For me, I think it traces back to a genuine fear of failure...or more specifically, a fear of incompletion. So many times I get deep into a WIP, thinking I'm going strong, only to hit a brick wall. It never fails. I've written parts of more stories than I can count (they practically spill out of my old PC, and threaten the integrity of my notebook). But ask me how many I've finished. Go ahead. The answer is one. Pitiful.

I have yet to figure out where this anti-completion complex hails from, but know that it is a serious threat to my hopes and dreams. I've been able to examine 'why' I think my extended writers' block has stuck with me for all these years. In a way, this has helped. Now that I know why, I have been able to think past the barrier. The other night I cranked out a bit of work that actually sounded decent, and there was no trace of the usual masonry in my path at the time. True, this story will probably follow the others into grave obscurity, though I hope it is a sign that there is hope for me.

Perhaps such an abstract, overly simplistic, and seemingly ridiculous method would work for you. Then again, since this is all coming from an extremely tired mind at 12:42 AM (U.S. Eastern Time), it probably has no practical value whatsoever. Still, theoretical or not, there may be a grain of wisdom or two in the sands of blather above. I wish you luck, and want you to know that you are most definitely not alone. Unfortunately.


Inkwell
------------------
"The difference between a writer and someone who says they want to write is merely the width of a postage stamp."
-Anonymous


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ArCHeR
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I think perhaps the answer to starting so many more stories than finishing (yes, I do that too), is somewhere in between ADD, and having lots of good ideas, but not the time to carry them through...
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djvdakota
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Favorite book: Dandelion Wine by Ray Bradbury.
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Jeraliey
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Ooh. Good choice.
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bladeofwords
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I"m guessing that plays don't count as 'books' read in high school, because they're not..well...books. If they were I would have to say Romeo and Juliet. That's my favorite by far.

On the topic of starting too many projects. I would go back and read some of those aborted starts. I've only actually done it once (I am always more excited about some new idea and it doesn't bother me that I jump around a lot), but it worked pretty well. If you read the whole story up to the point where you stopped it makes more sense, you see the whole thing and it's often obvious what needs to happen next. Of course that's if you actually want to finish anything. If you just love writing who actually cares?

The one time I did do this I finished the novel within a week of picking it up again (granted it didn't end up being a novel it was only like 27k, but still, you get the point).

Jon


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ArCHeR
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*pukes*

Romeo and Juliet? Ugh. I can't stand Shakespeare. Don't give me any crap about not understanding it, or how I think it's boring because I don't appreciate classics. The simple truth is this: Shakespeare wasn't that great. He's the most overrated playwright in the history of theater.

That being said, Romeo and Juliet isn't his best work. My favorite of his is Othello, with Hamlet coming in second.

Shakespeare is a much better poet than a playwright.


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bladeofwords
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*pukes back*

so there.

We could get into a discussion about it, but that's something for a different thread.

Jon


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Survivor
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Well, I wouldn't say that he's the most overrated playwright in the history of theater. Because while it may be true, in a very narrow and somewhat pedantic sense, that Shakespeare is overrated by more people than any other playwright, it is also pretty meaningless.

After all, by the very same standard he's the most underrated playwright in the history of theater, isn't he? So insofar as those statements are true it really only means that everyone's heard of Shakespeare and formed an opinion of his work, often a very ill informed one.

As for it being a discussion for another thread, I would submit that a puke fight over whether Shakespeare was over or under-rated doesn't belong on this forum at all.


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wetwilly
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*pukes in general because all the puke everywhere makes one sick*
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ArCHeR
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It's my thread. I don't care. It's not going to be a big debate anyway.

But Shakespeare isn't underrated at all. He is always overrated. Even kids who don't like shakespeare consider him a great playwright, because they don't read plays at all, and just assume he is great.


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yanos
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I think Shakespeare's achievements speak for themselves. He for one, was a career playwright... i.e. he had to finish to feed himself. Try it some day, it may inspire you to get your butt in chair and finish something. Then, perhaps in a hundred years time, others will tear you apart for your over-ratedness.
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ArCHeR
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I'm not saying he wasn't good. He just wasn't THAT good.
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