posted
I've been thinking about my WIP, a suspense novel that stars a woman who can predict the future and a cop she falls in love with. After writing two drafts of this novel with the stereotypical loves-his-work cop I realized that he's kind of boring and unmemorable. So I started thinking about how to make him different, interesting, exciting. Of course, I find that a lot of detectives out there do fit the loves-his-work profile. Often they drink too much too. The most memorable one I can think of is Monk but of course there is only one Monk.
I started thinking of him as smooth, a womanizer, a talker, someone who loves to be around people and especially women even though he never lets any of them close. He sounds more interesting and more memorable to me but now I run into a new problem...I'm not smooth. I don't flirt well and never have. Most of the time in my life I could never tell when someone was flirting with me. Granted, I'm trying to write the male flipside of this but I think the basic elements of poise and confidence remain the same.
So to make a long story short (too alte) I was wondering if there is any way to write a character that has an unfamiliar personality. One that has no part of me or, frankly, anybody I know very well. Should I just scrap it and give him some other personality trait or is there hope for me to learn the fine art of flirting and flattery?
posted
Even though movies and t.v. don't always do a good job of showing breadth and depth of character and plot, they can be a good way to study specific traits and stereotypes.
For suave, smooth male characters, perhaps a good James Bond (specifically Sean Connery or Pierce Brosnan) or Mel Gibson in What Women Want.
Sometimes casting someone in the role of your character. If you can associate them with someone specific (actor or friend or something) it can help you imagine behaviours.
Perhaps even reading a romance novel. I know, I know. I cringed as I wrote it, but they do show relationships, even if they are more than a little exagerated.
posted
Oof. Tough one. I think that it is completely possible to write a character with a personality trait that you don't have. Otherwise we wouldn't have so many stories with killers or warriors. You write about it the same way you write about a skill that you don't posess, with research and observation.
Flirting is a hard one to research. I'd start with paying attention to other fictional characters that you know are supposed to posess that trait. Talk to people who are "flirts".
>Ahem< Now, I'm a woman but there are certain aspects of this delicate artform that are true cross-gender lines. Flirtation is about expressing interest in the other person. When flirting, the object of the flirtation should feel as if they are the center of your attention, as in, "You make me feel as if I'm the only person in the room." I've always thought that Sean Connery was a successful Bond because of his ability to flirt with his audience. There was always the sense that he knew something amusing, if he could just be alone with you.
Eye contact is a very important tool, both making it and withholding it at key moments.
There are also more direct methods of flirtation, but these are some useful indirect tools. Anyone else want to chime in on their flirtation theories?
posted
As far as helpful tips, I'm in the same boat as you, Christine; flirtation is beyond me. I do think the most helpful thing would be to study other flirts in fiction. I could learn all about how flirtation works, and still not have the personality or the balls (see how suave I'm not?) to pull it off personally. That wouldn't hinder me from pulling it off vicariously through a character, though.
On another note:
quote:I think that it is completely possible to write a character with a personality trait that you don't have. Otherwise we wouldn't have so many stories with killers or warriors.
Or perhaps more of us are killers or warriors than you think, just killers or warriors who have been raised in a peaceful environment.
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Is it totally weird and wrong that I'm finding more of myself in the killer in this story than in a potentially flirtatious sleuth? I wonder what that says about me...
I know exactly what it says. I understand the killer's motivation. I should, I've spent the last several months swimming around in her head digging it out. I've got her down. I actually tried to make Derek (that's his name) something of a flirt in my second draft of this story but it fell utterly miserably flat. Why? I think it may be a question of motivation. (I'm just typing out loud here...) I don't really understand what motivates people to flirt. Yeah, yeah, they want sex. Ok, that's implistic though. The rest of us frankly want it to but we wait for someone else to make the move. You see, killing is not a personality trait that is completely at odds with me. People with my personality could and have killed. People with my personality have never ever flirted, however. Personality isn't a motivation thing. It's a ...well, you want to know the truth? Even psychologists suck at defining the term. Anyway, now that I've tossed out those thoughts I'll step back and let you guys continue talking amongst yourselves. It's a good conversation.
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Flirting is the social equivalent of hunting. In the end your just trying to trap your prey :-)
The only difference between a killer and a non-killer is that the non-killer hasn't found something they love or care for enough that they'd kill to protect or aquire it.
quote: I don't really understand what motivates people to flirt. Yeah, yeah, they want sex. Ok, that's simplistic though.
I don't know as sex (simplistic or not) is the true motivation for flirting. I think a need to feel attractive, witty, or desirable is closer to the real motivation. As HuntGod said, the thrill of the hunt.
So here is what you've told us about Derek:
He is a workaholic. He loves being a cop. Likes being around people, but not getting close to any of them. Socialable. Confident.
Now I'm guessing: He's probably a bit conceited. Really does care about people and what happens to them. A bit macho. Really wants to share his life with someone but is afraid of "something". Doesn't like to be out of control. Possibly lost someone close to him, feels either betrayed or responsible. Likes power, even if it isn't what drives him.
So what would motivate someone like this to flirt? Well, flirting can be very superficial. He satisfies his need to be liked and thought well of, without putting himself out there. He enjoys getting his man..er..woman. He likes the power of seducing.
Probably fits the moldel of being the Alpha male.
However, he probably has a deeper void that he is trying to fill, satisfy or ignore. Flirting, being the centre of attention, always in a crowd; these are ways he is trying to find what he needs without really looking for what "that" is.
Don't know if this is helpful, but they are just some impressions and guesses from what you said.
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Oh Christine, you'll probably get a lot of flack from people about this "Yeah, yeah, they want sex. Ok, that's implistic though." But it is probably at the heart of why you are having trouble writing him.
Flirting, for those of us who are flirts, is a game. It isn't even about getting dates, but it is about being desirable. It is about teasing, to a certain extent. If you think of the subtext, "I could be dangerous if I wanted to be" I think you'd come closer to knowing what a flirt does. Think of it as more of a power display. Whether the flirter goes to the next level of making an advance is a different thing. That is about sexuality. Flirting is about desirability. It is a subtle but important distinction.
I actually think that in order to flirt well one must have some level of sincerity because flirting is about making the other person feel like they are interesting. It's much the same skill as schmoozing. You find the one interesting thing about an otherwise uninteresting person and focus on that.
posted
I always thought of flirts (well the big ones anyway) as lacking in self-esteem. They need that little ego boost of knowing they are still desirable. And of course the excitement of the chase brings in sexual elements too.
The trouble is your smooth charming cop has been done many times before. So even though it adds another dimension to him, it doesn't make him that different. Still, there are some uses for stereotypes.
Did you ever think of a cop who had a weakness for women? He cannot say no to certain types of women (usually the wrong sort). They are screwed up in some way, but because he needs to feel needed he always ends up with one.
posted
Wow! Well, I told you I didn't know about flirting. Seems you all set me straight. But it helps, it really does. I'm picturing him better now. Robyn_hood, your additional characteristics are so right on the money you could have come up with him yourself.
Yanos, it doesn't seem to me that there is much to be done with a cop that isn't somewhat stereotypical. They fit one mold or another. Every so often you get something really creative (Monk) but then the show is about them and that trait whereas this story is actually more about the heroine than the hero. What Derek needs to be, more than anything else, is an ideal subject o romatnci tension and interest. It needs to be believable and desirable that the heroine end up with him and for that there needs to be something about him...stoicism and pure cop logic are not those thigns. So perhaps I misspoke when I was spelling out the problem. I want the story to be memorable. The cop, well, he needs to be distinct enough that we care without stealing the show.
posted
I think Yanos is on to something. It isn't the flirtation it is who he chooses to flirt with that gives your cop his personality- like a cop who, in his spare time, helps out around a battered woman's shelter because he likes women he can dominate.There has to be some quirk in your protagonist's character that really turns the cop's head.
[This message has been edited by Kickle (edited January 11, 2005).]
posted
Maybe he's shy and something about her makes him relax. I know several people who come off as aloof and prickly, but turn out to be just shy.
Posts: 2022 | Registered: Jul 2003
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posted
I think it would really help you out if, as well as showing that he's a charmer, you also show other people around him reacting to his suaveness. It takes some of the pressure off of you because you don't have to go crazy trying to figure out exactly how to make him smooth. Readers will just assume that he's suave if the people he interacts with treats him as if he were. If the girl that Sean Connery was charming were to burst out in derisive laughter and wave her buddy over so she could see this ridiculous loser, then even Sean Connery would seem awkward.
In stage combat, you can very obviously pull your punches as long as your partner acts as if they landed. It doesn't matter how badly done the actual hit seems...the reaction is what sells it. Same goes for writing, I think. Hope that makes some sense.
[This message has been edited by Jeraliey (edited January 12, 2005).]
posted
There are two sides to this equation, I think. On the one hand, you have people that are skilled at flirting. They can make contact with a target and pull that person in pretty much at will. Then again, you have people that like to flirt. Now these are not the same thing.
Flirting skills as such are not something that you could easily portray in writing even if you wanted to do so and were extensively skilled yourself. It's a bit like dancing or swordfighting that way. Another way it's like them is that there isn't just one method for successful flirting. You can flirt by playing "hard to get" or "uninterested" just as well as by seeming turned on. There are plenty of people that use a cultivated "sincere but awkward" facade as well as those that play the sophisticate or the gregarious type. The way that you show someone's good at these things is by talking about the effects.
Then you have the motive for flirting. This can vary quite a bit. I actually enjoy flirting, but I typically don't do it because it can cause complications. On the other hand, I've known people that just flirt for the fun of it. And I've known people that don't really find flirting fun, but do it because they want something.
Basically, what I'm saying is that you're probably overanalyzing this because you think that there is some "right" way to write a character that flirts. There really isn't.
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I think Survivor is right on. Ever sit and listen to someone flirt? It's downright painful. Yet for some reason, for some folks, it works. I think there's more to it than just dialogue: Looks, inflections, voice, confidence, ego, charisma...who knows. There's something intangible and if your character has it, he has it. I'll probably buy it just as well either way.
Posts: 207 | Registered: Jan 2004
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posted
Survivor, you make some excellent points. And I had a lightbulb moment reading through this thread...because flirtation always does soudns illy from a third person point of view. It's only when you see a target reacting appropriately that it works. I thought back to one of my favorite series until the last couple seasons when I thought it fell flat -- Friends. Joey's character was the quintessential male slut and women kept buying it and buying it. But every so often for comedic effect they would put him in the shadow of an even better looking or more confident man or put him with a girl who wasn't buying his act. He didn't look particularly smooth to me then and I laughed about it. Now I'm seeing the deeper truth there.
You know, I tried the shy guy who comes alive because of this girl in the first draft of this novel (I'm about to embark on #3 but am trying to get a few things straight first.) I didn't quite work for me, but perhaps a variant of it that I was just now thinking of...the shy guy who nevertheless gets the attention of all manner of women. This character would be far easier to write because it is a slight variant of my husband. (My husband being a little too cocky and a little too aware of the fact that women paid attention to him. ) This is the guy that the women at the office try to set up with all their friends. He goes on those dates and tries to let the girls down easy because he's scared of a serious relationship. (His wife died suddenly a long time ago and he never got over it.)
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The motivations for flirting differ between the sexes.
As pointed out by Mary, women, generally, flirt as a method of empowerment, where the act itself is more important than the possible sex act that could follow.
Men, in my experience, tend to flirt with the sole purpose of the sex act that could follow.
These are generalizations, but most male and female flirters fall into these two mind sets.
posted
I think flirting is the external result of an internal motivation.
If he is a flirt, it sounds like it may be more of a defense mechanism. Something that allows him to stroke his own ego, while keeping any true emotions deeply hidden and tucked away in a safe place. He never wants to get close enough to anyone to get hurt, ever again. (Sort of like Mel Gibson in Lethal Weapon).
If, on the otherhand, he is the quiet, shy guy, it would likely be manifested in a very different way. It is unlikely that he would be the stereotypical cop. He has a soft heart and a tenderness that is apparent and draws people to him. Especially women who like a "sensitive" man. He has an inner strength, choses his words and actions carefully. He is not a "shoot-first-ask-questions-later" type, preferring not to pull his gun. He may not be particullarly old, but others come to him for advice or to "confess". He is melancholy, which brings out the maternal instincts in the women around him. He gives so much of himself and his time to others, that it distracts him from his own demons.
The second character profile could be more memorable, because it is not the typical picture of a cop. However, it can be difficult to pull off because you don't want him to appear weak or incompetant. You are also going counter to the stereotype, which could require more character description/building.
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I just hope that this guy not being over his long dead wife is part of the slight variation from Christine's husband.
You know what, though? I think it would be fun to make this guy someone that wishes he were a player but isn't. The reason that your MC falls for him is because she has to keep saving his life. I mean, he isn't super dedicated or anything, he's actually kind of feckless and gets into trouble a lot, but with her ability to see the future things always turn out okay. In a sense, he's almost her stalking goat or lightning rod, but then she starts to really like him.
Anyway, that's just something I was thinking could be fun.
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When thinking of a character I tend to look at people I like that would suit the role as to what I want them for, for example if I were to write a cop type character into a tale, I'd think about Jerry Orbach (RIP) from Law and Order, I just loved the way he played the character.
Posts: 27 | Registered: Jan 2005
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posted
Another two cents. Not tried with experience, since almost all of my main characters have has much in common with either myself or someone I know well, but a good hunch...
Christine, don't think of it as a project to make the character "work" a certain way. Think of it as your first experiential lesson in being a suave flirt. Have fun with extrapolating his thoughts/feelings (if he is your POV), or those your female character in responding to them (if she's the POV). In my experience, trying to hard to fit a formula will leave your work dead. Just letting your imagination run works. And if in the end, he doesn't wind up a very good flirt, I'd still be willing to bet he becomes a darned interesting character that works well with your protagonist.
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