posted
OK, so I confess I have been writing for years completely oblivious to the guidelines set by most publishers. Is this "it hasn't been published in any form whatsoever" guideline consistent in the industry?
The novel I'm working on is based on an on-line RPG Play-By-Email game I have been running for the past two years. Our posts are listed in Yahoogroups and are readily available to the public for perusal.
The book is not the game. We have made serious edits to the book, tightened dialog, added new details, will end up changing a few storylines.
Am I out of luck from ever being published by a traditional publishing house? Is self-publishing the only route I will ever see print?
posted
I'm no expert, but it does sound as if you might have some difficulties there.
I kind of question how successful an RPG-based novel would be at a mainstream publisher, anyway. Do you believe the novel would appeal to anyone who isn't a player of the game?
posted
Elan: From what it sounds like, there really shouldn't be any problems with it... it technically still original in everyway, right?
Beth: "I kind of question how successful an RPG-based novel would be at a mainstream publisher, anyway. Do you believe the novel would appeal to anyone who isn't a player of the game?"
At most bookstores I know of, nearly about half the Fantasy/Sci-Fi sections are books based on RPGs now-a-days, so, what do you classify as being a "mainstream publisher"?
posted
It is possible to get a previously published book republished by major publishers. I've heard, for instance, that Bantam Dell are much more open to this than most, and have editors who spend time reading self-published books to try to spot ones they could buy.
But it is a harder route to go down than selling something completely new.
posted
Something else to consider is how significant the changes are that you are making. If the changes are big enough, you might have an easier time. The problem is that publishers like to negotiate for all the rights for a work. If you have used up the electronic rights, they are less likely to be interested. However, if the you are using the RPG as a template and doing some major re-vising and re-writing, such that most of the "original" version is non-existent, you might be fine...I don't know, 'cause I haven't read it.
Also, my understanding is that publishers like to buy novels that already have an audience. For instance, if you wrote and published a short story that was encorporated into a novel, you might have an easier time selling the novel (but don't quote me on that).
Your best bet, query the RPG publisher. Since it is based on an RPG, the world is probably copyrighted or otherwise protected by law, and you could be treading on the grounds of Fan-Fic. Chances are you would only be able to sell this to the RPG company, so why not query them first to see if they are interested. If they are, then mention the origins of the story and see where it goes from there.
If they are not interested, you will likely have to change the setting and possibly other elements before approaching another publisher so that you are not infringing on the rights to this RPG world. Once those and the other changes are in place, you might not have an electronic rights issue.
[This message has been edited by Robyn_Hood (edited May 18, 2005).]
posted
robyn hood says what i was getting at with what I said about "mainstream" publishers, only she actually put in all the details and was clear 'n stuff.
posted
I was getting the impression that she and her friends were the RPG's creator... perhaps that was my misinterpretation...
Posts: 183 | Registered: Jan 2005
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posted
Just to clarify, this game/story is 100% original. It's not based on any other copywrited work. Previously published characters are not allowed.
The creation of the world is mostly the work of my co-author and myself. Of the 1,098,000+ words we've written, Michelle and I have written about 60-70% of the total.
From the moment of inception, our "game" has been structured and written like a novel. It's the one thing that sets us apart. I ask my players to approach this as a novel, not a game. It's not typical RPG fare.
The bulk of what we are converting into the book is what I, myself, and my co-author have written. I've done a ton of world-building - perhaps more than the normal novelist, simply because I had to be able to communicate the core concepts (geography, social structure, history, allowable use of magic - it IS fantasy, after all) to new players.
I'm nearly ready to post a request in F&F for a critique of the first few chapters. I guess I'll find out then if it's "interesting" enough for anyone to read.
We've planned all along to turn this into a book someday. I was just a bit dismayed to find out that, due to our format, we've already disqualified ourselves from being published by a regular publishing house.
I guess my current research on self-publishing will come in handy!
(Edited for clarity because by the time I can write a post there are more comments that need responding to!)
[This message has been edited by Elan (edited May 18, 2005).]
posted
Heh... yes. I have a target of 110,000 words and I THINK we can squeak it down. My co-author is dubious, but I'm working at shaving it down to a much leaner version. We have deleted entire characters and their subsequent threads. And yours truly is about as verbose as they come. I'm tightening my own stuff up quite a bit.
I always laugh at comments from folks who can't come up with 70,000 words - it seems like an easier problem to deal with than that of having ten times too much material and having to edit down!!
posted
Are you also considering marketing the game itself?
If not, it might be something to consider. If you were prepared to have both novels and game, you could approach a gaming company to see if they would be interested in the concept. The cross-marketing options might be something to look at and could add to the appeal of the book.
Publishers don't want to buy something that has used up its electronic rights, but I'm nor clear from what you've said whether that has happened or not.
Even if you have published the whole thing online, there is a chance that your edited/tightened version will be different enough to be acceptable.
But if you've got a game that people are interested in to go with a book, you may want to try selling both of them and getting a double-whammy out of it.
Of course, you might still have to self-publish, but if you are self-publishing a game with a tie-in book, you'll certainly have a much broader market to sell to, and distributors are more likely to be interested in your product.
posted
My question is are you using characters and material that was done by the other players? And if so do you have their permission. I've played many games like that on Yahoo and I'd hate to think that someone was using my work on there. Also some advice I would give you is to take it off of the internet. Then you could sell the electronic rights. (although I don't think you could sell the first rights.) Of course like has been said if you change it enough, (which you probably should a good game doesn't make for a good story or the other way around.) BTW what was your yahoo ID perhaps we've played together.
Posts: 1895 | Registered: Mar 2004
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posted
Huh. I hadn't ever thought of trying to market the GAME. It's been difficult enough trying to get our players of our online game running down the same road. Rather like herding cats, if you know what I mean.
Although, the idea has some merit. I would want to get the book done first before tackling a major project like that. My co-author has quite a bit of table-top RPG experience, so a conversion of PBeM to tabletop might be doable.
We do have a different approach to our magic system, and that is probably the heart of what makes any RPG unique.
I suppose I'm doing this all bass-ackwards, but on the other hand my secret goal all along was to write a book, not play a game
I appreciate all the feedback! I'll mull this over with my co-author.
posted
I wanted to add a note. Pyre Dynasty's comment deserved to be addressed. I'm very conscious of copyright, and no other writer's character, or writing, will be used without their permission.
I am working on the rewrite now, and we've not yet gotten to the point in the story where it's been an issue, meaning the writing has all been mine and my co-author's so far. The truth of the 'game' is that the other players have had a hard time figuring out the distinction between playing a game and writing a novel. Most have written isolated characters who don't interact much with the main plot of the story. We will opt to leave several of these game characters out of the book.
There are only two or three other characters (beyond the main protagonists) in the game who have become interwoven into the main plot. We'll get written authorization from the players who have created these characters before writing them into the book. If they have objections, we can write them out without affecting the main plot.
I doubt we played together, Pyre Dynasty. I didn't have a yahoo name, and most of the folks I played PBeM with are still playing with me in our game. I wrote for a Star Trek RPG for 3 years before realizing it was a waste of my time to be creating throw-away stories for a copyrighted universe. It's why I was adamant that we create an original fantasy story this time around.
My co-author has been my writing buddy since our days in the Star Trek RPG, and we really love co-creating story together. It's great fun to write with someone else. We each write some parts solo, some together in Joint Posts. We edit each other's stuff. I'm the one smoothing it out, but that's mostly a matter of needing to give the book a single "voice" and because I'm better at the mechanics of spelling and grammar since she is dyslexic.
At any rate, after Memorial Day I hope to be ready to toss the first few chapters out to the wolves on the F&F.
posted
I guess this is another stupid question, but what, exactly is "electronic rights"? Where do I find a definition of what that means?
Posts: 2026 | Registered: Mar 2005
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electronic rights Licensing of a picture for use in any electronic medium including but not limited to CD-ROMs, web sites, etc: See RIGHTS. http://ikjeld.com/info/glossary/glossaryE.html
posted
Simply put, "electronic rights" refers to the publication of your words (or as RavenStarr has indicated, graphics) on any kind of electronic medium: CD, DVD, webpage, PDA, iPod, eBook, etc, etc, etc.
Publishers now want to be able to be the first to publish your work in any medium or format, including electronic. If you have already published something electronically, so that it is available to a large enough number of people that it will mean fewer will buy what the publisher produces, then the publisher is not interested.
If you've only made it available to a small number (like the people here at Hatrack to whom you email a copy or like the group that sign on to Liberty Hall and have to use passwords, etc to read the flash fiction that is only online for a few days), then that doesn't count as publication.
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