posted
For my story: I can't seem to find a clear answer as to whether you can get a spectacularly electrical snow storm. Having never experienced snow in a real way, I have no idea. Does it happen?
[This message has been edited by hoptoad (edited February 09, 2006).]
posted
Well if it doesn't, then I've lost my mind...well, that still a possibility. I've seen snow with lightning and thunder. It isn't a regular occurance, but it was like a thunderstorm in the wintertime.
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posted
Thanks LordDarkstorm, TO refine the question: This portion of the story occurs in the ice-age in northern Europe, so I'm not talking about a 'slushy' snow storm.
Was it a dry, powdery snow?
[This message has been edited by hoptoad (edited February 09, 2006).]
posted
My wife has spoken of seeing this just once or twice in MN when she was younger -- once on Halloween, which she said was really spooky.
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posted
I've seen it several times here in northern Vermont. The time I recall as being the most vivid was in January. We had had very unsettled weather, first a thaw, then an ice storm and then snow and thunder and lightening. I was in my car on a muddy dirt road on top of a mountain and it was terrifing--mostly because it seemed unnatural. I'm sure if you ask an expert they'd be thrilled to fill you in on all the technical reasons it happens.
[This message has been edited by Kickle (edited February 09, 2006).]
posted
I can't comment on "spectacular," but here in Colorado, it does lightning during snow storms. Of course, Colorado is also home to a place called Devil's Playground. Named so due to the amount of lightning it gets. Located around 13,000' on Pikes Peak (~14,000').
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posted
Okay, so it's not unheard of. (Phew) But would it be something unusual enough to be thought an omen by an iceage explorer? These reaction so far tell me yes.
Anyone know any legends (Native American or otherwise) or anything about lightning in the snow?
[This message has been edited by hoptoad (edited February 10, 2006).]
quote:I don't believe there is any scientific name for lightning and thunder during a snowstorm. That does happen occasionally in the wintertime, and those events usually produce brief bursts of very heavy snow. These storms are usually caused by a strong surge of warm moist air flowing over a dome of cold air at the surface. Thunderstorms may develop, but temperatures are such that the precipitation remains all snow as it falls to the ground.
An ice age might have a hard time producing warm, moist air, though it might if you have the right geography and circumstances. Specifically, you'd probably need a large body of water to the west, a few warm days, and a sudden storm north of your location drifting south. (In the Northern Hemisphere, anyway. Reverse for the Southern, where they turn clockwise.) You'd also need an inversion (cold air lower, warm air higher), which happen most frequenly in valleys, though not always. Mountains to the east would help drive the warm air up. Remember that the storm clouds would be rolly- and patchy-looking - electrical storms are generally created by strong updrafts and downdrafts: great cycles of vertical wind in the clouds that make the undersides look like a roiling sea.
Yeah, my dad is a meteorologist. Any real meteorologists will please correct me if I'm wrong.
It'd be quite a spectacle, especially at night. I imagine a burst of lightning flashing on the blue mountains to the east, momentarily lighting the ground all around you and throwing every snowflake into sharp relief. Cool stuff.
[This message has been edited by trousercuit (edited February 10, 2006).]
posted
Wow, Ask your dad what would happen if the north Atlantic conveyor had been running cold (?) for thousands of years and was just now in the process of warming up again (picture 15000 years ago). Could it possibly produce snowy thunderstorms in what would become England?
(It is not critical to the story but I'm interested )
[This message has been edited by hoptoad (edited February 10, 2006).]
posted
He's not exactly available right now, but I might be able to help with my limited knowledge of both the situation and meteorology.
I'd say you could probably have snowy thunderstorms, most likely on the west coast. (East coast isn't likely, as land generally produces colder air than sea, and systems on Earth generally move west-to-east.) You could get a moist body of air over a calm sea, and then have a quick storm rush in from the north, bringing a cold front and then washing the moist air from the sea over the top of it. Again, having high terrain on the east side would help.
I suppose any wet-warm-over-stormy-cold situation could do it under the right circumstances (which, of course, you get to invent). I'm probably just talking out of my rear end, though.
posted
Here in Cleveland we get snowstorms with lightning from time to time. I have seen dozens of them. I think it happens when a storm comes in from Canada while Lake Erie is still warm.
It looks and sounds a little different from an ordinary thunderstorm. Because the air is filled with snowflakes you cannot see the lightning bolts clearly. If the lightning is far away the horizon lights up from an indeterminate direction. If it is close by, it seems like a camera flash all around you. Then the thunder is muffled by the snow. You hear an initial thud, and the reverberations die off very quickly.
[This message has been edited by Doc Brown (edited February 10, 2006).]
posted
Thunder and lightning is a function of convection speeds (made that term up myself just now ) more than anything else, though water particles (and associated negative ions) in the air do help store up more charge. The main problem with winter weather (from the perspective of generating lightning) is that it isn't usually heavy in the convection department (you need air to drag along the ground and then rapidly shoot up high in the storm system). The lower concentration of negative ions is a factor too, but if it's a blizzard you can get there if there's good convection.
The particulars of storms are too complex to calculate based on a handful of theory, though. tc's meteorology sounds okay to me, so you're probably safer following that.
posted
In Lincoln Nebraska October 1997 we had 18" of snow and a lightening storm so intense that the sky never darkened overnight.
Of course, being October, the leaves were still on many of the trees allowing them to hold more snow than the wintry skeletal trees and about half of the trees were taken down by wind and snow.
edit:corrected date
[This message has been edited by pantros (edited February 10, 2006).]
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Any real meteorologists will please correct me if I'm wrong.
)
) more than anything else, though water particles (and associated negative ions) in the air do help store up more charge. The main problem with winter weather (from the perspective of generating lightning) is that it isn't usually heavy in the convection department (you need air to drag along the ground and then rapidly shoot up high in the storm system). The lower concentration of negative ions is a factor too, but if it's a blizzard you can get there if there's good convection.
