posted
I was first introduced to hatrack when I met Rachel Ann Dryden at Worldcon last August and, although I haven't posted nor browsed the forums in quite some while, I am still very much active with the novel group Hatrack_Group2. Hatrack.com, both the forums and Group2, have been indispensable to me, especially in terms of self-editing.
However, for the purpose of this present post I wanted to highlight a new web venture which is currently seeking novelists
aims to create a bridge between a workshop environment and agents/editors. It is being run by two fellas called Conrad and Derek, neither of whom are writers but both of whom are young and enthusiastic and wish to take their present day-job skills and channel them into running their own business.
As Orson Scott Card will attest, running your own webspace isn't cheap and although 1stchapters will eventually have to start charging an annual fee they're offering the first 50 contributors free representation in order to get the site established. There are no genre barriers. I know, from readngs folks' work on this site in the past, that hatrackers don't restrict themselves to SF and Fantasy. Don't worry if you haven't completed the novel which you would like to see represented as 1stchapers is a long term venture, so there will be plenty of time to finish it. Although nothing may come of it the fact that it's free to the first 50 contributors means that there's nothing to lose either.
There is a contributions team which reads the 'first chapter' submissions and decides which novelists to post on the site.
Writers are allowed to post up to ten percent of their novels on the internet without infringing their right to later sell it. So for a 100,000 word novel you would be allowed to post 10,000 although on average 1stchapters will be posting 5,000 words.
I met Conrad and Derek just over a year ago and both are genuine guys and serious about making this venture work.
Finally, here is Conrad's own words, taken from an email he recently sent to his current contributors:
quote:Dear All,
Firstly, I would like to thank all of you for your patience whilst we are in the process of getting 1stchapters.com up and running. And a big thank you to all of you who have contributed so far, most appreciated.
The plan from here on in is as follows: We have given ourselves a time limit of four months to have 50 contributions on the showcase section of the website. Currently we have (including ones already published on the site and ones soon to be so) 10 on the showcase, meaning, simply enough, that we need 40 more. In order for us to be sure of getting at least 40 ‘Showcase’ contributions, we need at least 250-300 contributions in total, which is why this message is being sent out.
Currently we are trying our best to achieve this goal. We would like to achieve it much faster than in four months because once we achieve it we will go ahead and launch the website officially with all the technology we require so that we can begin really helping all of you discover a far simpler and more effective way of seeking publication.
I would really appreciate it if all of you could rally round this effort by telling every writer you know about 1stchapters.com and by getting them to send us a chapter of their work. The four month target is a maximum; if we can achieve all this in one month, then we will be three months ahead of ourselves and everyone will be all the better off for it.
Thank you all once again for your patience, your support and your enthusiasm.
Yours,
Conrad
For further queries please contact Conrad directly at conrad@1stchapters.com - he'll be glad to hear from any aspiring novelists.
Paul Campbell
[This message has been edited by Paul-girtbooks (edited May 27, 2006).]
posted
Are these guys agents? Just wondering what their credentials are, other than a boatload of enthusiasm.
Posts: 440 | Registered: Aug 2005
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posted
No, they're not agents or editors or writers. They're basically young businessmen with a love of reading who would like to create a 'bridge' to agents/editors/publishers. Like I said, the whole venture might not work... but there again it might. The fellas would like to give it a go.
Posts: 203 | Registered: Aug 2005
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posted
I guess I don't understand the goal of posting your first chapter on any website, other than to receive critiques. Is this a critique site? (I'm sorry if I just missed that information in your post.) Or is it going to be a site which invites agents, editors, and publishers to read samples, with the hope that they will contact the author if they are interested in reading more?
Posts: 247 | Registered: Apr 2006
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posted
The idea is that Conrad and Derek will start promoting the site at various book events as well as doing the actual leg work of approaching publishers and agents.
The long term goal - like, years down the line! - is that agents and editors will visit the site to see what new and up and coming talent is out there.
posted
Why on earth would an agent or editor ever go anywhere other than their own monumental slush pile? I don't get it, either.
Posts: 1750 | Registered: Oct 2004
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posted
I guess it's an interesting idea, but I'm not understanding how it's going to help writers or publishers. How would a writer benefit from putting their work here, rather than just sending it off to publishers or agents?
Are these guys like psuedo agents, they help you find an agent, who helps you find a publisher?
posted
Seems like they're not bad at creative writing either.
quote:Probably the internet's best site for writers dedicated to their writing. ...
Come on. The first sentence into their presentation and I already know they're full of it.
There's nothing wrong with enthusiasm and giving it a go, but there's everything wrong with just being another bunch of snake oil salesmen who take advantage of wannabe writer's vulnerabilities.
So, at best, they're ignorantly enthusiastic. At worst they're the equivalent of vanity publishers.
--
Edit:
Why don't you ask them to get on here and tell me why I'm wrong? I don't want people to think I'm just a sniper who is unwilling to take it as well as dish it out. Ask them to demonstrate why they're "Probably the internet's best site for writers dedicated to their writing." If they can, I'll apologize.
Until then, I'm not impressed.
Mike
[This message has been edited by mikemunsil (edited May 27, 2006).]
posted
Sounds like they are offering authors something that they can't guarantee they will provide. (And for editors and agents to come to their website, they'd have to be able to offer them something they can't really guarantee they will provide either.)
What Beth said.
This kind of thing hasn't even worked well when an actual publisher was doing it (see Del Rey's no-longer-in-existence "workshop").
quote:Probably the internet's best site for writers dedicated to their writing.
Well, websites like this are always trying to recruit me to join them, probably because of my really good bo staff skills.
Posts: 86 | Registered: Apr 2006
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posted
In their FAQ, they put a lot of emphasis on establishing it as a crit site. Then they say that your work can be read by publishers and agents at any time. (which distinguishes it from any other site how?)
"we have a database of over 120 agents and 150 publishers in the UK alone."
I have a much larger database than that; it's called "Writer's Market." I'm sure I could also find at least that many using an obscure tool called "Google".
Once a story has garnered favorable comments, "we will place it on the showcase and actively market it to applicable Publishers and Agents." They don't mention what "actively market" means (or why they capitalize "publishers" and "agents".)
"For the less than the cost of printing, editing, binding and posting your manuscript to just ten publishers and agents, we will give you all the help you need in market testing your work and get you closer to achieving your dreams than ever before!"
Binding? Seriously? Please show me one agent or publisher anywhere that wants bound submissions. ("Because we know the market place we can guide you at every stage with the best ways in which to market your work for maximum response.")
I was deeply skeptical before I read the site but am even more skeptical having looked into it.
quote:"For the less than the cost of printing, editing, binding and posting your manuscript to just ten publishers and agents, we will give you all the help you need in market testing your work and get you closer to achieving your dreams than ever before!"
To me, this reads as, "Instead of actually sending your manuscript to 10 publishers, who might actually buy your book, waste all that time and money 'Market Testing' it with a bunch of people who won't buy it, no matter how good it is."
I have no idea why I would want to do that.
Try this on for size, "Looking for a new car? For less than the cost of renting a car for a week, I'll show you car pictures and tell you about how it feels to drive one!"
You're right Beth, this is looking like less and less value for the money. At least the first post was vague enough that it might have sounded reasonable. The website seems to be shooting itself in the foot with all that honesty.
posted
To be honest (and I'm trying really hard to give Derek and Conrad the benefit of the doubt here), it sounds like they have a lot of enthusiasm, and very little knowledge of how the publishing industry and submission for publication actually works. The problem with that is that it has always seemed to me that not knowing how the industry works and trying anyways can actually damage your chances at getting published. And those odds are slim enough to begin with, in my view. I think I'll stick to the old fashioned way.
Posts: 293 | Registered: Apr 2003
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posted
So if an agent/publisher wants to read the full work based on what they read on the site, I'm still going to have to pay to have it printed and mailed (and bound, apparently, in their universe). No?
You know which publishers and agents are going to love working with this site? PublishAmerica, Author House, Barbara Bauer, etc.
posted
I had trouble with Paul saying they weren't agents editors or writers and yet the site says that it was created by writers for writers. If there is a conflict like that in their basic premise, I fear.
I think that Conrad and Derek, (who lack last names which is unprofessional, another thing I fear.) would have better use of their time and the 1stchapters domain if they offered space to published writers to post their first chapter as an advertisment, (with a sales link). I think this would appeal greatly to the self-published who are always looking for way to get their name out. And offering chapters is an established business practice.
posted
Joseph Conrad certainly has some good publishing credits, but I'm not sure how much help Bo Derek is going to be in this kind of venture.
Posts: 1750 | Registered: Oct 2004
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posted
I've just had a quick browse and found this in their showcase:
quote:They’re lips meet and then press. “You’ve been crying again darling. She says. Oh, Harry it’s just like being back at school and playing truant.”
See this? This is a ten foot pole, and it's what I won't be using to touch this site.
posted
It took me several seconds to figure out that the reference to "Meet the Press" was not intended.
Posts: 334 | Registered: Sep 2003
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posted
As per Beth's suggestion I've invite Derek to reply to people's views so far to the site.
I didn't realize this was important, but as it obviously is their full names are Conrad Watts and Derek Semple. They live in Glasgow, UK.
I have sent a copy of everyone's reply to this post to Derek. He has read them and promises to reply as soon as possible.
And, yes, I have my doubts about quite a few of the 'showcase' pieces myself. But, hey, this is Conrad and Derek's baby, not mine. They asked, as a favor, if I could contact as many aspiring writers as I knew and I said sure. And I have. The rest is up to them. (There again, who am I to judge any of the 'showcase' pieces: I've only had three short stories and six non-fiction articles published, and even then I wasn't paid for any of them).
posted
I recently submitted a manuscript to a publishing house that accepted unsolicited manuscripts only to have it returned with a letter saying that they had switched formats. They no longer accepted unsolicited manuscripts, but they did look over the work on a site called 1st edition, or something like that. Anyway, when I looked at 1st edition’s site I discovered that you post your story, or story proposal, there and they send it out to publishers, at a fee of course (something like 79.00 USD for a six month period). I have a feeling that this is what this site intends to become. I think aspiring authors have enough expenses to bear without taking up part of the Publishing Houses expenses. You should either take unsolicited work or not, but please don’t charge me for the privilege.
Posts: 58 | Registered: May 2006
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Fee is $79 per proposal; your proposal is available for 6 months.
What is the 'success rate' for authors using 1st Edition Manuscript Service?
A new author recently showed us his newly published book! He used the 1st Edition Manuscript Service! Many of our members review the site monthly and report good conversations with prospective authors as projects are considered.
One author? Of a title they won't disclose? Uh-huh. Or maybe that's just the best way to crack the evangelical Christian market.
posted
I know this site primarily deals with Evangelical Christian publishers, which is why it didn’t bother me too much when I received the letter, honestly I didn’t have much of a shot with the publishing house anyway. But what if mainstream houses start dealing with these companies? Will they stop accepting unsolicited manuscripts too?
Posts: 58 | Registered: May 2006
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What happens in those is a publisher sends a rejection letter encouraging the author to pay money to someone who will help them sell their manuscript, and then when the author pays the money, the publisher gets a "finder's fee." And neither one of them intend to lift a finger to really help any aspiring authors.
posted
I've tended to avoid anything involving paying someone to print my stuff, or even to read it...the closest I've gotten, I think, was a twenty-five cent reading fee one of the "pro" mags of my long-ago childhood charged.
I figure if I want a book of my stuff---yeah, the thought is tempting, seeing my name, spelled correctly, on the spine of a book on my shelf---I could always arrange to have a local printer print some up. For a price, of course. I don't think I'd want to arrange to have it done far away...
posted
Thanks to everyone else for checking this out, so I don't have to. (Tch, that entry you posted was enough for me to get my 11-foot pole! )
Posts: 2830 | Registered: Dec 2004
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posted
They are just trying to get rich quick by the traditional scam - Convince the world that we need another middleman.
Posts: 370 | Registered: Feb 2006
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posted
If anyone's interested in this, but doesn't want to go to the work. Send me the first chapter of your book, plus $50, and I will submit it to 1stChapters on your behalf.
Posts: 86 | Registered: Apr 2006
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posted
If you prefer to remain anonymous with Mr. Cow, you can send it to me and I'll anonymize it and pass it on! $20. That's a small price to pay to ensure that you protect your privacy, don't you think?
Posts: 1750 | Registered: Oct 2004
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