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Author Topic: keeping secrets
discipuli
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I want to keep the MC's real name from the reader, the MC himself knows his name , just refuses to recall it for personal reasons... Thus i need to use the first person '' I'' all the time ... He goes by a false name to keep his identity secret ...
Are there any other things i should keep in mind? any tips?

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Grijalva
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I guess it's possible in first person, if the character lived the lie about his name for so long that he started to believe it. Otherwise I feel like you would have to tell us.
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trousercuit
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If he goes by a false name, why do you need to use first-person POV? His false name is his tag.
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Christine
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I agree, if he actually thinks of himself by the false name, I would even be ok with this in third person.

Have you read "Characters and Viewpoint" yet? I was just re-reading it the other day and there's a bit in there about unreliable narrators you may be interested in.


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Elan
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If, for purposes of the plot, you feel it's important to keep the name unrevealed, I could live with that fact if I am told his pseudo-name, and the fact that it IS a pseudo-name. If the character thinks of himself by a false name, and introduces himself that way, then it shouldn't create a problem, IMHO.
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ChrisOwens
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It seems sometimes established professionals can break the rules, sometimes, and get away with it. And you know what? I don't think the average reader really cares.

For instance, in the current series I'm reading, the Wheel of Time. In the second book, in the prologue, the masked character is addressed by something like, "The man called Bors". Later on, we learn who Bors is--if we haven't already guessed. In another, a camoflauged character is following two others, he goes unnamed, and eventually we learn his name, though I still doubt it's his true name. I'm sure I'll be in for a suprise.

Robert Jordan even does suprising things, like in a deep 3PL mode, switching to 3PO in the last sentence. Something like, 'But she didn't see the woman above watching her walk away.' If I hadn't gotten into attempted writing, would I even have seen this?

Of course, this rulebreaking must be done with care.


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authorsjourney
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OSC is fond of saying that you can break any rule, if you're willing to pay the price. I would add that the better you are at writing, the lower the price will be.
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Survivor
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Is there any actual point in withholding the MC's name?

I recently read a story in which this trick makes an appearance for a very minor character. It was a pretty good story, but it would have been immensely better if the writer hadn't pulled such a pointless stunt. If he'd tried to pull this trick with one of the main characters, it would have crippled the story completely. Now this writer was very good. The cost to the story wasn't less, it was just that the story was more easily able to pay that cost out of the store of credit it accumulated otherwise.

If you choose to use an anonymous narrator, that's different. Narrators can have reasons to be self-effacing. But it doesn't work to simply make the main character the narrator, you must make someone else the main character of the story. Enziquelvinisensee Evelvenin in Hart's Hope is a good example of this. She is assigned the duty of narrating events (semi-anonymously) because she plays such a minor role in the main story. If she were a more active character, her version of events would be suspect. It is not of minor importance that she refers to herself in the third person even when she does appear in the story.

The flip side of this is that if the narrator uses first person and is one of the important actors in the story related, the anonyminity is pointless. Everyone in the world of the story (the world in which the narrator is telling the story, let us not forget) will be easily able to see through the pretense, so why does the narrator even bother?


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discipuli
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The MC hides his name for a purpose , he had a troubled past and wishes anonymity , so he lies about his name and his real name is forgotten after awhile , even in his own mind
Like someone born in china forgetting how to speak chinese after many many years in an english speaking nation , i know someone like this.. while she isn't the sharpest knife in the kitchen drawer, she is a fairly good example.

Part of my idea was to contrast the old ''him'' with the new ''him'' , as bieng two different identies , each with it's own name..

[This message has been edited by discipuli (edited July 30, 2006).]


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Christine
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quote:
The cost to the story wasn't less, it was just that the story was more easily able to pay that cost out of the store of credit it accumulated otherwise.

I really like this point and wanted to highlight this for all those on this site who like to complain about what established authors can get away with that the rest of us can't. This is WHY they can get away with it -- at least the good ones.

But I did want to reiterate that if a MC honestly does not think of themsleves by their "real" name, then it is ok to use a pseudonym. In fact, I would go so far as to say that if they have completely forgotten their birth name, then it is not their real name at all -- the pseudonym is. I would probably expect some kind of revelation to go hand in hand with the memory of their real name, when it comes into the story. (I assume it does or it wouldn't matter at all.) I would also like to say that, unless this is written in a diary format, this would work best in third person because a first person account looking back from a time *after* he remembers his birth name would clearly be a case of withholding information. On the other hand, in a third person account where everything is written in the present, then as long as he doesn't remember his name you are not keeping secrets or withholding information at all. The beauty fo a third person narrative is that the only information the reader is expected to be privy to is the information that the POV character knows AT THE TIME.

If you used omniscient viewpoint you would be keeping the secret. If you used first person point of view with a narrator who has remembered the name since the onset of the story, then once again you are keepin the secret.

Like I said -- read "Characters and Viewpoint" as all of this is in there and told much better than I ever could.


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Novice
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discipuli -- Why do you want to keep his real name a secret? Do you plan to reveal it at some point in the book/story? Are you going to tell a parallel story, using the real name, and try to convince the reader you are talking about two separate characters? Are the different names going to be the primary plot?

I guess I'm wondering what you hope to gain from this plot device, how you mean for it to add to the reader's enjoyment/understanding. That's the primary thing you should keep in mind, I believe. I never enjoy reading anything that makes me feel like a fool, at any point. I wouldn't want to invest a lot of time in your story/book, and then have you jump out from around the next corner and yell "GOTCHA!" However, if I experience some kind of revalation that changes my understanding of the character, that brings me closer to the story, I'd be perfectly content.

So, instead of making me think, "Oh, you've got to be kidding...I know I should have seen that coming, but I just didn't, and now I've got to go all the way back through all of this stuff and see what I missed..."--you should be aiming for, "AhHa. I get it now. Poor guy, that's why he did this and this and this..."

In other words, have everything in place and in plain view of the reader, so that the real name has immediate importance and reveals something about the plot and character that could not have been revealed earlier, with some other, less complicated, device.

(In a separate train of thought--I have some very basic doubts regarding the premise that someone can forget their given name. Additionally, if they are so removed from their original name that they have forgotten it, their reaction to learning it again would be minimal. I'm not sure I'd be convinced that the mention of their first name would bring about some kind of floodgate of old memories. Now, if you are talking about some kind of psychological "blocked memories", that's a different conversation. But simply forgetting your first name because you don't use it anymore is a tricky premise.)


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Rilnian
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Think of OSC's Ender's Game. If at no time in the story he had told the reader that Ender's real name was Andrew, we would have never known. He did tell us, and it had a point to it, but so can yours.

I will warn you, be very careful of this. I had planned on writing a story where the MC does things that the reader cant know about, and it is tricky to do it right. You _must_ declare a POV character, and know that they never knew or come to know his name.

I still agree with Novice that it souldn't be some "Gotcha!" moment. Instead of creating gaps and trying to fill them in with this name, create questions, and answer them with this name.


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discipuli
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I didn't ask to be crucified for some unwritten rule of writing.. I asked for help... Remember i'm not leaving my MC UNAMED , i'm lying about his name to himself and the reader...
'' Repressed memory'' is the phrase i was looking for.. Re-learning his real name is the que to introducing the reader to his past and how it is related to the currant situation....

Should i start handing out nails and hammers? or will someone give me advice other than ''don't do it ''

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Aust Alien
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Hi discipuli,
I don't think anyone's really attacking you, even tho responses often feel like that at first.
To me, if the MC has another name that he refers to himself, this could be done even in a 3d Person Limited pov. eg Ender's Game: Ender calls himself Ender and we find out in the first chapter that he's called Andrew, because his teacher and the psychs call him Andrew.
If other people are calling the MC by that name it gets hard to hide it, but if they call him by the name he thinks of himself, or "Mr Smith" or something. The readers would feel cheated later on if there is this scene where it's "oh by the way the Leonardo guy they all hate - that's me" and the MC has been artificially with-holding the information from the reader. But if the scene is that the MC is making this discovery or maybe finally coming to face up to what's he's avoided thinking then this could be a really powerful scene.
Another way is to hint it. The character and his assosiciates may refer to him as Noddie when his real name is finally revealed to him to be this Leonardo character that everyone is talking about.
Basically, if it is important to the story that this name is hidden then do it but be careful. If it is not important then I (personally) would be reluctant to do it, but from what you've said this isn't the case
quote:
Re-learning his real name is the que to introducing the reader to his past and how it is related to the currant situation....

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Christine
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discipuli: I don't think there was anyone here attacking you but when you ask a question like this it is bound to be controversial as everyone calls to mind good/bad experiences they have had with the notion. Keep in mind, too, that the open discussion about writing is open and while a topic may begin as it pertains to *your* story the discussion will naturally bring in other's stories and talk about the idea more generally. Fragments and Feedback is a better way to go for specifics.

I don't know what you mean by "how to do it." Usually, you sit at a computer and start to type. Alternatley, you can get a piece of paper and a pen and write longhand.

This is a learning process. If it's a short story, I'd just write it and see what people think. If it's a novel, that isn't quite as easy to do but you could put together an outline and see if anyone would be able to help you. Without knowing quite a few more details, there isn't much else we can say about your specific story. There are just too many variables.

Try F&F...I think it may help you. Good luck!


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Survivor
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quote:
the MC himself knows his name , just refuses to recall it for personal reasons...He goes by a false name to keep his identity secret...

Don't blame us for your lack of clarity.


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Novice
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I meant my answer to help, not to make you feel attacked. I apologize if I wasn't clear. Perhaps I can clarify. (I am going to work from the premise that the balance of your plot involves the character's secret past, his secret name. If these things are not the primary plot, my example won't help you much. Sorry.)

As an example: The Sixth Sense.

POSSIBLE SPOILER****

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Now, it wasn't a charater's name being withheld, but it was something just as basic to his identity. My impression is that you are attempting a similar kind of thing. The only reason The Sixth Sense worked is that, by the time you learned the character's secret, it fit neatly into the puzzle. All of the clues were in place, all of the reasons, and all of the repercussions. Some viewers had already figured it out.

This takes a lot of planning. You HAVE to provide enough information to give the reader a chance to guess, or it simply won't work. Without having everything in place, you'll get "HUH?" instead of "OH!" You have to give the reader the clues...the same clues you'll give the character, the ones that lead to his own revelation. Then the reader will be able to share the moment, instead of feeling kicked out of the story because they didn't see it coming.


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Aust Alien
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POSSIBLE SPOILER

Note that a main point of the plot is that the character did not realise what his secret was. He was putting it together as we did and as we get a big "AH-AH so that's it" just as he gets it.


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kings_falcon
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I am confused by something. You have said:

quote:
Re-learning his real name is the que to introducing the reader to his past and how it is related to the current situation....

AND
quote:
the MC himself knows his name , just refuses to recall it for personal reasons...He goes by a false name to keep his identity secret...

These are two very different things and how they are handled is very different.

On plot line 1 (re-learing name and past) -
1) there needs to be more than a renaming or refusal to know who he was;
2) As long as the POV (presumably him) doesn't know and you sprinkle hints that the POV "sees but doesn't see", then you are in the Sixth Sense realm of story telling. It can be done effectively. The reader needs to be able to look back and say "Oh, that's what that was."

**** SPOILER *********

For example, the scene in Sixth Sense where he looks in on his wife while she's sleeping and she pulls the covers up over her shoulder. That's a hint. Just because, I didn't get it at the time doesn't matter. When the "Secret" is revealed, there is that "Oh" moment and not a "what?/ Why did I just waste two hours on this?" moment.

********* Spoiler end ***************
On plot line 2 (secret identity) -
You can definately do this but if this character is your POV or your POV is Omni, the reader needs to know almost instantly about the name change. Although, I am not sure what you mean by "refuses to recall."

After all, why would Clark Kent be interesting if we didn't know he was also Superman from the beginning?

In my current project (Omni POV) both MCs are using false identities to protect themselves. The reader learns why and the new names in the prologue. Throught the story everyone, including those who know the secret use the "false" names. I had originally hidden the male MC's name change. After being here for a bit (and getting feedback from friends who discarded the idea that he was who he really was) I realized that in trying to create suspense I was just being annoying.

The comments by others who posted to avoid this "trick" were not meant as an attack. It just points out that a lot of readers are going to feel betrayed if they should have known something and you withheld it. If you betray a reader, he/she probably won't pick up the next book or short story you write.


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wetwilly
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In "Fight Club" the narrator/main character never has a name (he is always simply "I" or "Me"). It doesn't damage the story one bit.
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Elan
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When I first began to write, I used to think, "Oh, I'll withhold this information because it will be fun for the reader to discover there was a secret."

What I learned is that it is NOT fun for the reader. It is frustrating to have information withheld, merely for the sake of withholding it. What I had to learn was the difference between withholding information because it's part of the plot that the character doesn't know, and information I was withholding because I had some unfounded belief that it created some "mystery" to a story.

Mystery, like every other plot element in a story, needs to have purpose. Withholding information just to tweak the reader's emotional response tends to backfire.


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pooka
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I'm reminded of that book The Rules that was supposed to instruct women on how to create a sense of mystique for the men they are trying to date.
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pantros
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I had another name once, but I didn't use it anymore.

That's all you need to say. In first person you have the benefit of hiding information that the narrator wants to hide from you. Information hiding is allowable in first person if its intentional.

Just make sure you mention early on that there is a secret the narrator is not telling so that when it comes out, we are not thinking deus ex machina.

Hint and foreshadow.

In third person, such information hiding would be nearly unforgivable.


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Sara Genge
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Discipuli: One thing that surprised me was that you implied that the first person was only a reasonable tool if you needed to hide the person's name. I know that third person is more conventional but this is speculative fiction, and first person has been around for some time. I'd recomend you tell us the MC's real name, the reason he doesn't like it, his pseudo and then go on using the pseudo if you're going to use third person. First person might be useful since you can go on to forget the name immediately, _after you've mentioned it at least once_ (if not there's too much mystery atached to a name)
In first person a MC might refer to himself as "a guy", "a man" etc slipping in and out of third (yeah, weird, but useful for character building)

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