posted
So we all pretty much agree that well-written dialogue should convey its own attitude rather than rely on tags.
I've seen more said-book-isms in YA literature than in adult lit. Is that because children tend to lack social intuition and often miss interpersonal context? Is it because they tend to read more slowly and tend to miss out on word-sense context, so it has to be told to them? Is it because YA lit is less strict? Is there a smaller pool of authors and/or submissions? Or is it just a genre convention?
(I've heard that it's a romance novel genre convention, but as I regard romance novels as nothing but novel-length excuses, I generally avoid talking about them. )
I'm asking because I'm seriously considering breaking into YA science fiction, but I don't know the conventions.
posted
As an aspiring writer you are learning the rules and you learn that they are absolute.
When you become a writer you will learn that the most important thing is the story. All those rules you learned are just tools and rarely absolutes.
said-book-isms are not so bad. But you must learn first not to use them before you learn how to use them properly.
A good, publishable writer can get away with breaking some of the rules haphazardly if they are very good at the other things that go into building a story.
YA definitly has lower standards. I picked up one book and the dialog was all tagged with said followed by an adverb everytime.
But most YA fiction is serial and mostly written by staff writers who got the job straight out of college or through journalism. They write formulaic books based on a template developed by their manager. Its also often based on or one-offed on a popular theme. (Look at all the pirate YA books in the last three years and the Magic School books in the last 6)
Breaking into the stand-alone YA market is just as hard for a true aspiring writer as any other. Outside of the pre-fab houses, high standards still apply. You still have to get past an editor or ten before getting considered for publication and those editors expect you to follow most of the rules. Many of them read for writing skills as much as story building skills.
Absolutely right. I taught sixth grade for four years, and read a lot of juvenile literature at the time. The quality of writers simply are not that great. (There are always exceptions, of course.) By the same token, they often take on a bit more of a babyish style and voice, which is probably usually intentional. Done well, it might be good - but it usually isn't done very well. IMHO, the best juvenile literature is written by highly skilled writers who don't use gimicks like a babyish voice.
R.L. Stine (of Goosebumps) wrote very simple books for kids. They loved them because of the imaginative aspects of the horror genre, but the writing was unsophisticated and flat. He wrote one (only one that I know of) book for an adult audience. I only got through a portion of it, but it was one of the most pathetic pieces of writing I have ever seen published.
But it does go to show that you might be able to find some success in juvenile literature with lower quality work. If I don't improve, I may wind up there. (Of course you might find some success in adult literature with some lower quality work.)
posted
said-book-ism: words writers used to avoid repeating the word said.
Its amazing how proliferate bad advice can be. Amateur writers frequently make the misjudgement that repeating the word said is bad. Here are some examples of said-book-ism given as bad advice:
Like Sci-fic and fantasy have lower standards than literary fiction?
I think its not so much 'lower' standards as 'different' ones.
It's human nature to assume that others with different standards actually have lower ones. It's the first, easiest and most obvious way to explain the differences, but is wrong in a million ways.
[This message has been edited by hoptoad (edited March 22, 2007).]
posted
no, I meant lower. If I'd meant different I would have said different. Certainly YA standards are different. They are mostly different in the sense that tney are less caring of the quality of writing. Posts: 370 | Registered: Feb 2006
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quote: Its amazing how proliferate bad advice can be. Amateur writers frequently make the misjudgement that repeating the word said is bad. Here are some examples of said-book-ism given as bad advice:
posted
One person's "fact" may be what another person considers an opinion. Let's not argue about what qualifies as "fact" and what qualifies as "opinion" please?
Posts: 8826 | Registered: A Long Time Ago!
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Yikes and double yikes. That is EXACTLY what I hate with tags. Just give me the dialog. If you need action, great! Put it in. But don't put it in the tag.
"I hate you," Bob vomitted.
That's the way I see it when people try to be creative with dialog tags.
posted
Any type of literature can be cheap. And any can be done very well. Though there are a lot of silly romances, I'm sure there are very good romance novels as well. Sure, some YA novels are crap, but I think that stems from the copy cat writers. Someone sees Harry Potter, says, "That kind of stuff makes money. I'm going to rip it off as quick as I can!" That's why you see a lot of wizard in school, boy wizard, wizard in training novels. Not that anything in Harry Potter is exactly new. It's just JK Rowling's ability to put it together in a charming format (yes, anyone can disagree with the quality of her writing). Harry Potter is just an example, but there are always writers willing to make a quick buck by making a lose duplication of the original work. They change the details just enough to keep from getting sued (sometimes they get sued anyway) and publish it as their own.
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