1) I have a scene with shooting. How would you describe the sound of gunshots, fired in a room. Would you use "crack" "bang" or describe the effect of the sound on the POV character?
2) What is your take on sound effects in general. Do you use onomatopoeia such as pop and crack, or what?
posted
I personally would never use onomatopoeia in a story. Its too simplistic a device to be used.
"Crack" does not convey character nor does it explicitly advanced the plot. Vonnegut's rule about never writing anything that does not aid in plot or add to characterization in my opinion applies to the use of onomatopoeia.
Likewise Stanley Schmidt has an essay called "Seeing your way to better stories" in which his closing advice is basically good writing should be like a play without stage directions.
posted
I think onomatopoeia can add to a story in some special cases. I've seen it. They can be concise and descriptive if used right, but it's up to the author to decide if it's right for the story. For a gunshot, I'd say it's more than rare for onomatopoeia to work well. It's more likely to come across as comic, trite, and weak.
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posted
Have you ever shot a gun? The sound it makes depends on the caliber of the gun and the location where you're shooting (and whether or not you'r using a silencer, I suppose, although I've never shot with a silencer). If you're shooting in a canyon or on a boat between islands, for instance, you might hear an echo of the shot, which could give you lots of interesting things to say about the character, his reaction to the shot being fired, and the location. If it's a large caliber gun (say a .45 handgun), people nearby might jump or put their hands over their ears when the gun goes off. If it's a small caliber gun, like a .22, it will make a much quieter sound when it goes off. If you can, get someone you know who shoots to take you with them sometime so you can hear what real gunfire sounds like. Then you can write with much greater authority.
I shoot a .9mm and my hubby shoots a .45. At the range yesterday, where we're required to wear ear and eye protection as well as ball caps to keep casings from flipping up behind our safety glasses, I was still loading my mags when my hubby started firing on the range next to me (an indoor range). The BOOM of his .45 made me jump, which normally doesn't happen. It made my sternum vibrate, too, just a bit. A .45 is a noisy, powerful gun. My .9mm is much quieter by contrast, but still makes a loud boom when it goes off - and don't forget, there's a momentary flame from the end of the gun when the bullet leaves the barrel.
About the echo rebounding between islands - we vacationed on Maui in March and went on several catamaran cruises while we were there. In the water between Maui, Lanai and Molokai, we were sailing, so it was totally quiet (really fun, too!) when a humpback cow started slapping her tail on the water, over and over. The sound was like cannon fire, deep and powerful, and echoed around between the three islands. And then her calf mimicked her, with the resulting sound being like much lighter cannon fire, higher-pitched, with less reverberation, but still echoing around the three islands.
Don't depend on movie sound effects to give you an idea what gunfire sounds like (unless you're watching real war films - and then you'll notice the guns sound like "pop pop pop" quite often, rather than "boom" - a lot depends on how close you are to the gun at the time, the location where the gun is fired, and how close the microphone was to the gunfire).
posted
I have a setting on a battleship. It's about to fire a main battery broadside - nine 18-inch guns. Those don't whisper. The sound will be said in the text because that's all anyone aboard will be able to sense. I'm thinking something like: Ka-Ba-La-Hoooommmmm! Posts: 243 | Registered: Jul 2007
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posted
The one time I was unfortunate enough to have witnessed a shooting, with what I have to assume was a .22 or other small-caliber, it sounded a surprisingly lot like pop-pop-pop. Light fireworks. This was through closed car windows at a distance of about 20 feet. The shots were outdoors.
I would expect gunfire in a closed space, a house, room, dwelling, office, to sound quite different. Louder, certainly, but maybe echoes. Due to short distances, I would also expect the TARGET of the gunfire to make some noise. Crack/splinter of wood? a splatter? a thud? many unpleasant thoughts in mind there...
posted
I am conflicted, but I think I'm leaning against the use of the Onomatopoeia ...I submited a manuscript to a lit agent and he gave it a B-...good story, creative, but not good enough 'craft.' I think he is right - It's really not ready for submission yet. I should be more patient. He objected to the use of "pop" in the following: (the first pop is a silenced 9mm, the second is a FBI 10mm, all in a computer lab at night. I think it should be changed but I am not sure to what...)
"Don't lie to me."
"I swear it. Just the copy on the disk, locked in my office." He stared at the black gun. "I followed the contract to the letter."
"Good." The assassin smiled as he squeezed the trigger.
Pop. Pop.
Blood sprayed from the assasin’s arm as the bullet from a second shooter tore though. The assassin’s slug smashed though a nearby computer screen wide of Jim’s skull.
Jim sat, frozen in shock, watching the assassin back toward the door with one arm hanging limp. As the man reached under his coat, a hand grabbed Jim and slammed him to the floor.
Pop Pop Pop, somebody was firing as they kneeled over Jim’s body.
The room erupted with the roar of a submachine gun. Wood splinters exploded around Jim, the room lighting up in a demonic strobe light. He grasped the leg of a table, body curled tight around his laptop bag, ducking his head further down against the deafening gunfire and the pieces of metal and wood battering his body, bracing himself against the violence.
quote: It's about to fire a main battery broadside - nine 18-inch guns.
A battleship NEVER fires all 9 guns simultaneously broadside. That kind of power can roll the ship on its side. Also, if this is an American battlship, they only used 16" guns. I believe the Japanese Imperial Navy battleship Yamato was the only ship ever mounting 18-inch guns, though I'm not certain of that.
I think in this instance, taking a few liberties with the sound of the gun, or even an artistic bent, would be much more effective that Pop, pop, pop. That almost made me chuckle, thought I do believe I snorted a little. Maybe try something to the effect of this... my alterations are in italics.
quote:"Don't lie to me."
"I swear it. Just the copy on the disk, locked in my office." He stared at the black gun. "I followed the contract to the letter."
"Good." Jim saw the assassin smile as his finger tensed on the trigger of his gun.
Blood suddenly sprayed from the assasin’s arm as the bullet from a second shooter tore though the flesh of his forearm. The assassin’s gun went off, his now errant aim sending a bullet through a nearby computer screen.
Jim sat, frozen in shock, watching the assassin back toward the door with one arm hanging limp. As the assassin reached under his coat with his good arm, a hand grabbed Jim and slammed him to the floor and jammed a knee into the small of his back. The next thing Jim knew, whoever was holding him down had opened fire as well. The sound was near deafening, a sharp crack-crack-crack that seemed to rattle Jim's teeth.
Without notice, the room erupted with the roar of a submachine gun. Wood splinters exploded around Jim, the room lighting up in a demonic strobe light. The weight on his back suddenly disappeared, followed by a heavy thud on the tiled floor. He grasped the leg of a table, body curled tight around his laptop bag, and ducked his head further down against the deafening gunfire as the pieces of metal and wood battered his body.
Is this more of what you had in mind? I don't know if I've changed anything substantial plot-wise, but I think it reads a little better.
Yeah, something like that is good. I like how you handled the gunshots.
I don't have my copy of Steven King's On Writing, but I believe he says that using words for sounds is something worth considering - he probably said something like try it, if it works keep it, if not throw it away.
btw, I just bought Orson Scott Card's Characters & Viewpoint. I have read several books on writing and there is none better than this.
posted
I go shooting w/ my Dh and Guns dont go pop. They go BANG! They are loud even a .22. My .357 is loud, loud anough to wear ear protection. With out ear plugs or muffs your ears would ring especially in a enclosed "room".
My Dh who was a marine... still is, I correct myself. Says that a bullet when it passes you makes a snapping sound.
posted
I'm inclined to say pop!, though my experience with guns is limited. My life experience tells me that it couldn't be like it is on TV---the sound is so limited. (For instance, you can't appreciate how visceral the sound of a NASCAR engine revving actually is unless you've been near one that's starting up.)
*****
On the side argument about battleships---I thought one of the Iowa class battleships fired a full broadside while in operations off Lebannon in the eighties, but I don't have a reference and may be mistaken about the number of big guns in play.
quote:btw, I just bought Orson Scott Card's Characters & Viewpoint. I have read several books on writing and there is none better than this.
I agree. That was one of the first books on writing I read, so I didn't know what a gem it was until later.
I just finished James Scott Bells' Plot & Structure, which I also liked very much. Perhaps we should start a thread of writing books we like.
As for the pop, it didn't work for me in that instance. I think maybe pop could work in some cases, but not this one. Perhaps if the PoV character had a calloused and wry take on shooting someone?
posted
In the story I just finished, I needed a lot of sound effects, since there is a great deal happening that the pov character does not see. If anyone wants to comment on whether this worked or not, I'll be glad to send the story, which is titled, "A Thousand Points of Light".
Matt Lust wrote, "Likewise Stanley Schmidt has an essay called "Seeing your way to better stories" in which his closing advice is basically good writing should be like a play without stage directions."
I'm not sure Stan practices what he preaches. He recently rejected a story of mine because it had "too much dialog".
posted
A written story is not a movie. Why would you want to detail a sound that cannot be adequately described on the written page? Consider that your reader doesn't really need that level of description. We all have a mental image of the sound of a gun. Whether it goes "boom" or "crack" or "pop" is irrelevant. The only reason you should focus on the exact sound would be if that exact sound was pivotal to the plot for some reason.
Simply write something to the effect of: "The gun fired, making Hero X jump..."
Your hook will be in your character's emotional and physical reaction to the sound, not in the futile attempt to describe the nuances of a sound.
posted
I tend to stay away from sound effects. It sort of robs you of the opportunity to describe with rich detail. If you say a gun went "crack" or "pop", you're pretty much done. The only time I might change that is if the sound is an alien one. If something makes a noise no one's ever heard before, you might want to clarify.
And if you do use sounds, well, you've got people debating whether your gun correctly snaps, crackles or pops (see above).
I would be interested in reading A Thousand Points of Light. How long is it?
All,
The tricky thing is when the MC doesn't see something...how do you say "he heard the click of metal on metal as the ..." without the word click?
I do think so much of it comes down to PoV - how a character hears/interprets sounds gives insight into the character.
Speaking of sounds, how about this: (Somebody tell me if I'm not supposed to put writing here. I'll apologize and remove.)
Altitude of 8,000 feet, somewhere in the Midwest The darkness subsided gradually, loud voices drawing him towards the light. Where am I, Jim wondered through a head of foggy pain. An attempt to move and his stomach lurched, wretched, there was nothing left to vomit. The only thing he could sense beyond the bands of pain wrapped around his head was the drone of an engine, and then that sound. Slap! It was the sound of flesh against concrete, or… Another wave of empty retching overtook him, as the terrible noise began, a shattering roar, and the world seemed to tip on its side. His mind mercifully slipped back into the darkness, shutting down in self defense like a child falling asleep in a loud room.
[This message has been edited by Bill (edited August 12, 2007).]
posted
I don't think he violated this rule because the example of a story he wrote for the essay does not focus on the dialog but uses narration to be the actors' movement.
Dialog is a tool but it is not our only tool as writers and it does not help us see the scene.
Focus for me is on the "seeing" part of this. What does the reader need to see for the scene to work is the question which defines how I write and then revise.
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