posted
This may seem like a stupid question, but I've never submitted anything before and I'm trying to get my novel cleaned up so I can do it. I've searched it on the internet and have read many different opinions. Arial? Courier new or Times New Roman? 10, 12 or 14 point?
I'm doing 12 point Times New Roman at the moment. I was using Courier, but it took up a lot of extra pages. I have no idea if this is what I should be using.
posted
First and foremost: Check to make sure the agents you're sending it to don't have their own preferences listed. Every manuscript should be tailored to fit their specifications.
Secondly: The most comment I've encountered is 12-point Courier. This is what I use.
Noah Lukeman in his book The First Five Pages says to use 20 lb bond white letter-size paper. Always print up a new draft for each submission. He says to use 12-point type font, but he doesn't specify the exact kind. I think serif fonts are preferred over sans-serif. He says it should be double spaced with one-inch margins. New paragraphs should be indented. New chapters should begin halfway down the page.
Most publishers' websites offer similar guidelines. They all have several features in common, including an insistence on Courier 12pt.
The serif thing is interesting. annepin's right, a serif font is preferred by most publishing houses because the serifs help the eye to run faster over the text. Almost every book, magazine or newspaper you buy uses Times Roman or something similar for this reason.
Additionally, as you noticed KStar, because of the proportional spacing, Times Roman enables you to get a lot of text onto the page--another reason books, magazines and newspapers use it. The reason we don't use it for manuscripts is that if instead Courier font is used, although the text will run to more pages, since it's monospaced, the publisher can accurately estimate the length of the work.
Hope this helps, Pat
[This message has been edited by TaleSpinner (edited January 09, 2008).]
posted
It's hard to see how you can go wrong with 12 pt Courier. It is the traditional standard. I check to see if the market has a specific preference, but I have yet to have anyone complain about that.
Posts: 1588 | Registered: Jul 2007
| IP: Logged |
posted
You need to use 12 point courier, or in a pinch, any other monospaced font. But really, why mess, just use what the industry standard is - Courier.
Monospaced fonts mean each and every letter takes up the exact same space. Imagine there's a box holding a place for each letter. In a monospaced font, the whitespace around the box is preserved for those skinny letters like Ls and the like. In a proportional font, they're squished together to save some space. While that's OK for many purposes, it's not OK for manuscript submissions.
Serif fonts are easier to read in print. Serif = the little tails on the end of letters. Times New Roman and Courier are serifed fonts. Arial and comic sans are sans-serif.
I personally find sans (without)-serif fonts to be easier to read on the screen, so I compose everything in arial 10 pt (save the trees for my draft printing) - and then change to 12 pt courier and double spaced to print for submission. There's an added bonus - the switch in font for the final read through makes it look different enough that I often find typos or wording issues that I had overlooked in previous drafts.
posted
KayTi has some good advice, however, I'd add to it. While serif fonts are easy for most of us to read, people who have dyslexia actually find the serifs visually confusing. (I did research on this for a design project a year ago.) Many dyslexics may prefer Trebuchet, Arial, Helvetica, Comic Sans, or Verdana; they also prefer a minimum of 12 point font with a little extra line spacing. http://www.accessibility101.org.uk/tips/100.htm
Rick Fisher taught me that you can type your manuscript in any font you find comforting; he used Bookman which I have since decided I like, too. When it's time to submit, just "select all" and set to Courier 12, or any other font the publisher/agent/editor specifies.
posted
Yes, those little tails are aggravating to many and not just those with learning disabilities or other visual processing issues. <nodding>
I just realized that in my browser (IE 7.0) on my machine (an XP machine) - the compose window for this bulletin board system is in Courier (or similar) and the display that I read the posts in is a sans-serifed font like Arial or what have you. I feel validated.
posted
As I've said a couple of times before, I'm deeply suspicious of markets that specify one particular typeface they want to see it in---it seems like extra work to me, and something utterly pointless in a printed manuscript. I probably would accomodate and make the change with an e-submission---but I've only rarely done that. Times New Roman seems quite clear and adequate for a printed MS---I don't understand why any reasonable person would want anything else if it came in that---and if anybody absolutely needs anything else from me, they can specify what they want, after acceptance and payment.
That being said (again), I'd say that Courier seems to be generally preferred---but I did think it was generally wanted in ten-point, not twelve-point. This is something to do with old pre-computer habits where they calculated word length and how much space it would take up on the typeset page.
Also...don't let your word processor even out your words or margins, which'll also throw off any estimates...
posted
I don't write in it. The font is just too ugly and it's easy to change fonts for printing or emailing.
Posts: 1588 | Registered: Jul 2007
| IP: Logged |
posted
I kind of like Courier... reminds me of an old typewriter or something. It does make it hard to scroll around though since it does take up more room. I usually work in Times New Roman to write with, or whatever font my non-MSWord word processor uses (Bookman Old Style?)
Posts: 2185 | Registered: Aug 2007
| IP: Logged |
quote:I kind of like Courier... reminds me of an old typewriter or something.
That's exactly why it's preferred. They can use the words/page formula they developed back in the days of typed submissions.
(Or at least they think they can. Actually, on the typewriter, you got exactly 6 lines per inch, or 3 if double-spacing. Word processing programs invariably leave a bit more space than than, so a full page of double-spaced text only comes out to maybe 23 lines instead of 25 or 26. But maybe they've taken that into account. In any case, a monospaced font IS more reliable, in terms of estimating amount of room in a magazine the story will take, than any proportional font.)
quote:I probably would accomodate and make the change with an e-submission . . . I did think it was generally wanted in ten-point, not twelve-point. This is something to do with old pre-computer habits where they calculated word length and how much space it would take up on the typeset page.
Those habits would only be considered "pre-computer" for e-subs. If anything, those are the ones where you don't need to make the change, since they can change it themselves any way they want. (Though, of course, that's extra work for them, too, which may annoy them just enough--especially if they're borderline about your story--to decide to reject it.) It's the paper submissions, where they want to be able to estimate the story length before they typeset it, where the monospaced font is so valuable to them. And while they can quickly estimate that from either the 10 point or the 12 point, the 12 point is preferred because it's larger and easier to read (especially by editors who are as old as I am!). Perhaps you got confused because of pitch? In the old days, 10 pitch typewriters typed in 12 point, and 12 pitch typed in 10 point (pitch is the number of characters per inch).
In any case, since Courier takes more room than Times Roman, it gives you a larger word count for story submissions. Since they pay by the word, why not take advantage of that?
All this only goes for stories in a magazine market. For novels, they're not so concerned about exactly filling a certain amount of space. Many still prefer Courier just because it's standard (and again, because it takes more space, they find it easier to read masses of manuscripts), but they don't use a word count formula. Approximate word-processor count is just fine.
One other thing to note: I never submit on paper with Courier New, because the lines are so thin it looks like you're running out of ink. I use Courier 10 BT, which comes out much darker on the page. However, it leaves more space between lines than Courier New does, so I adjust the line spacing to match that of Courier New. I'm a little anal about these things.
Oh, and for what it's worth, I hate the look of Courier myself. I refuse to use it for anything except submissions.
posted
Well, I remember when I got my first typewriter, I had a choice between Pica and Elite, and I picked Elite 'cause I thought it looked neater. As I recall, Pica was ten-characters-per-inch, and Elite was twelve-per-inch. This was just as I conceived the notion to type up something and send it out to market, when I knew absolutely nothing about what markets wanted.
Somebody somewhere, either in some writing book or magazine or rejection slip, but not personally, told me I should have gotten Pica and ten-per-inch---but by then I was committed to what I bought.
Much later, say in the last few years, I got to wondering why, in this day and age, I should pay attention to these sorts of rules. A lot of submission rules have come to seem irrational and obtuse. One market---and I forget which for sure so I'm not naming it---specified it wanted its e-submissions only in Courier 10 (or 12---I also forget).
I can understand why a market might want submissions all in one particular kind of format. I can also understand why a market might want to lay down rules of submission---but if I find it too much trouble or too unreasonable to do so, I'll forego the submission and possible sale.
posted
My typewriter was also elite (12 pitch, 10 point), and it DID look neater. But pica (10 pitch, 12 point) was the standard.
Courier 10 is a font, not a font size. Courier 10 BT is the one I use for submissions, as I mentioned, because Courier New looks really pale on the page. But my Courier 10 BT submissions are in 12 point.
How much trouble can it be to change your entire document to Courier 12-point before printing when you've got it on your computer? I'm afraid I don't understand that point. It takes about ten seconds. Now if your typewriter was Prestige Elite (as mine was) and the want it in Courier Pica, and so I had to find another typewriter and retype the entire thing--well, yeah, that would be a lot of trouble. But these days that's not the case.
[This message has been edited by rickfisher (edited January 13, 2008).]
posted
Well, let me see...as a test, I changed my hundred thousand word novel from Times New Roman to Courier 10---and it bloomed from 379 pages to 473 pages. The longer it is, pagewise, the more postage it'll cost to mail---
---and for what? To me, Courier doesn't seem easier to read than Times New Roman. I don't see that a market needs to make a length estimate before they decide to buy---if it's too long they can talk to me about cutting and if it's too short they can fill the space with something else. I won't be submitting electronically---if they absolutely need a computer file, they can tell me after they buy.
"...conducting one's self in a professional manner..." comes to mind. But how professional are, say, even the top SF magazine markets? I've said before, in all probability, they pay worse than they did back in the 1930s and 1940s if you adjust for inflation. As for a lot of these e-sites, it's even worse. I'm just not interested in selling them---and, as a spinoff, I'm just not that interested in accomodating them in any number of ways.
I'll send a printed MS, with a stamped-self-addressed envelope, and the MS will have my name and address on the left corner of the front page and a word count on the right corner, and each page will have my last name, the title of the story (or one or two words from the title if it's long) on each subsequent page, and the MS itself won't be all in italics or boldface or some strange and odd typeface...and that's pretty much it.
posted
Novels are not as crucial, generally. They are NOT interested in filling a certain amount of space in their magazine. If they want to use less or more paper, they'll adjust the font on their typeface accordingly. Magazine submissions, however, should always be done as the editorial specification state, and in the absence of clear directives, in standard manuscript format.
However, even with novels: if the only difference is: "Let's see, I can save $1.50 and have the slush reader consider me unprofessional, and return my manuscript unread" (a possibility) "or I can spend the extra, get past that hump, and at least have a chance of getting my novel published. What should I do?" Well, I know what I'd do.
Ask an agent how much difference it makes. It might not matter at all for novels these days.
It's been a long time since I've heard those terms. Remember the IBM Selectric? It had a ball instead of individual keys, so you could have both Pica and Elite.
Printer-friendly view of this topic
