what type of font, parrigraph, etc do you use when you summit a work?
all i have writen has been Times New Roman, font size 12, singel spaced, etc.

what do publishers look for if any at all relating to the typing?

Different publishers have different guidelines, which I am sure you know. But all seem to agree that font size 12(for PC, 14 for Mac) in Courier or Roman Times is fine. I understand that some may prefer Courier as it has regulated letter size, making it easier for an editor to count the total words in the story.

They want the manuscript double-space so they can write in corrections, of each sentence if neccessary. And a clear one inch margin around all the typeing to write instructions to the typesetter. They like a cover letter but it doesn't seem to be necessary on short stories.

They want indented paragraphs, something like three fourths of a centemeter. Or if you leave a space between each paragraph, as in a magazine style, no identation is necessary. In fact it is discouraged.

The only thing I would add is, wherever you decide to submit, wheter it be a magazine, publisher or agent, check their specific guidelines, if they have them--follow them. It shows you are not just blanketing the market, but that you have done your homework and you are professional.

Courier

Courier

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I understand that some may prefer Courier as it has regulated letter size, making it easier for an editor to count the total words in the story.

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They do hand markup for sending the manuscript to typesetting. He said, at length, that the letters of TNR are too close together for him to do markup.

I assured him that I hadn't murdered anyone or even kicked any puppies lately. He seemed to feel that using TNR was worse than either.

http://www.sfwriter.com/mschklst.htm

That gives a very standard and acceptable formatting guideline. It also gives a link to a darker Courier--which I can't seem to get to work on my computer. But some people find it less obnoxious than the regular Courier.

I think this one was a particularly grumpy editor but it might not be bad to know there are a few of those out there. LOL

Tango Mike

RFW2nd

PS: format was the word i was lookng for.

Thou shalt not type in funny fonts. (courier is nice. And YES, TNR is a funny font!!)

Thy Manuscripts shalt be sent in double-paced. (Or I shall rip them up chew on them and jump up and down on them until I can think of something MORE nasty to do.)

Thou shalt print on one side of the paper only. (This is a worse mistake than the previous and will see you and your works burning in the fires of anonymity forever.)

Thou shalt not steal another's work, or send me previously published work, Even your own, unless I expressly demand it.

Thou shalt not send your manuscripts to any editor before me (simultaneous submissions) lest i smite you where yee stand.

Thou shalt not use funny colors. Black and white only!

Thou shalt not bind your manuscripts in any way. Not even paperclips!

Thou shall never, not ever, use ALL CAPS. For any reason. (Unless I suggest it. Then it is a good idea.)

(Help me out here. I'm runnin' out!)

I was feeling a little funny when I typed this one. I hope no one is offended.

Edited first commandment.

so is there a holy bible of writing? or is that your next work?

In printed submissions, the editor almost certainly does hand markups. That means they dislike TNR which prints letters and words closer together and they have no way of changing it.

LOL I never thought it made much difference (and I suspect for most editors it doesn't). But some editors get excited about the darnedest things.

Let me add to the editorial commandment list started above:

If I find your italics are actually in italics instead of underlined I will rend the ms into tiny shreds and feed it to my office viper since everyone knows my typesetter is always too soused to figure out that something printed in italics is intended to be (gasp) italics.

(The drunk typesetters is an old cliche--no personal insult intended to any typesetters. No hate mail please. )

And I figure I could provide someone with a file---after acceptance, or even on request without acceptance.

I've seen some of the damnedest typographical errors, brought about solely because of setting the item directly from a file. I do what I can---but I'll risk further damnation if I prove willing to take responsibility for a problem on somebody else's end of the process.

and why would a typesetter be described as drunk? i dont quite understand that.

I suspect you might have been joking about not knowing what a dot matrix printout is, but I just couldn't resist showing a bit of age and fond memories of figuring out how to make them print something other than straight characters and put in pretty lines and simple graphics.

I still say before you print it, check what the publisher wants. What difference does it make if you print it in courier new instead of Times New Roman? If all you are doing is printing it for submission, you don't have to read it over again (assuming you haven't made any recent changes). Publishing is a business, and if you want a publisher to pay you to have your story printed, then don't whine about what they want, and take a couple minutes and format it the way they want.

If your character says something like: "He didnt light the fire."
Unitalized it is simpley an informative statement. Italisize 'he' and it becomes an acusation.

and is it still posible to find ribben for typewriters? i have a old 1953 (forgot moddel) one in VA that i use to use but now is in storage due to no ribben and need of a good cleaning.

HAHA the drunken Reporter. makes sence in a strange way.

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the printers that used linked paper and made a lot of noise?

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hopefully i can find a ribben for my type writer, but i dont know what my buddys will think as i carry it into my barrics.
i already have 2 computers and a s#$& ton of paper and pens

Times New Roman is a proportional fount. That means that every letter occupies more or less space depending on how big it is. This makes it prettier to the eye, but more difficult to read in the long run.

In a proportional fount like Courier, every letter is the same size. If you place two lines one under the other, every letter corresponds exactly with the letter underneath it. It makes it easier to judge how long a text is and how much space it will take in printed page. It also makes it easier to correct spelling errors.

But even if there were no real good reason to format manuscripts by industry standards, you should still do it. Why? Because it proves that you can read and follow instructions and that you're not a crazy crank who will let his ego kill the chances of publishing the manuscript. Loads of crazies approach editors every day; it's a good idea to let them know from the start that you're not one of them. Getting garrulous over formatting is just stupid.

A whole other world opened up to me when I wrote Internet Fan Fiction. No money involved---but there's no money involved in my submitting and being rejected. And I know more people read that than read the stuff I wrote with intent-to-submit---and not one of them ever objected to Times New Roman.

Right now, I find Times New Roman adequate for anyone to read---this goes for editors and slushpile readers, too.

My submissions in recent years have been somewhat limited---but, to my knowledge, not one of my stories has been bounced because of the type font. Maybe they just stick a standard "it doesn't work for us" form letter in the envelope for that reason---but then, if they're rejecting my work and my manuscript for reasons they won't explain, why should I bother with them and their crazy rules?

Your commandments made me LOL!!!!

I specifically like this one, and offer an edit...

Thou shalt not type in funny fonts. (courier is nice. And YES, TNR is a funny font!!)

As long as that's what you want from your writing, go straight ahead. But most Hatrackers actually want to be published authors and hell, even paid for their work. It's not impossible to achieve but in order to do it it's necessary to follow some simple instructions. I don't see how converting a manuscript from Times to Courier is a big deal. You can write in windings, for all the editor cares, as long as you submit it in standard manuscript format.

I can assure you that a manuscript can and will be rejected for being poorly formatted. I just had one bounced because I used Courier type 9.5 instead of 12 (something in the way stupid Word saved my document).

So you have no idea whether your work was ever rejected for being in the wrong format. It would seem, from your comments, that you don't care and that's your choice.

I am simply not inclined to be in that situation any more---for any reason. And not just issues over type fonts.

*****

I also do not belive the notion that these markets lack time to respond individually to every submission---I believe my experiences with Asimov's and Amazing, while edited by George H. Scithers, prove it to be false.

I am driven to wonder just which end of the market is conducting themselves professionally.

*****

A solicited submission is one which is made by the editor to a particular author who is usually well known and brings readers to the mag.

You're talking about unsolicited subs, which many markets accept and appreciate, but which they haven't actually asked for. Unsolicited subs are a lot more like advertisements in your mailbox than letters from a close friend. You may need a guy to fix the roof and call the number on the ad, but you're in no way obliged to do so, even to say that you don't want their services.

Even if editors did have the time to respond personally to the, say 600 subs a big mag gets a month, they might not want to. Personalized rejections attract far more crazies than forms and editors, like most human beings, don't like to be called names and/or stalked. Besides, a story may be rejected for vague reasons that are difficult to explain in a couple of lines. Or it may be very bad: like my grandma used to say, if you don't have anything nice to say, then just shut up.

I don't think you've understood the reasons why non-proportional fonts are better than proportional fonts. I'll repeat: it has to do with catching spelling errors and typesetting.

I fully agree that many mags are technophobic. Personally, I think the big three could get over themselves already and start accepting e-subs. It costs me 5e to mail a submission to the USA. By not taking e-subs, the big markets are scaring off foreign writers--but I'll try not to derail this thread into the whole diversity debate.

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I fully agree that many mags are technophobic. Personally, I think the big three could get over themselves already and start accepting e-subs. It costs me 5e to mail a submission to the USA. By not taking e-subs, the big markets are scaring off foreign writers--but I'll try not to derail this thread into the whole diversity debate.

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That is a little expensive, but I do understand one of the reasons they stick to paper submissions. How much effort does it take to print, package, and mail a submission? Now, how much is required to click on an email address and drag and drop a file and hit send? So, I would imagine that anyone who accepts electronic submissions would get quadruple the number of submissions or more compared to the number of paper submissions. So it isn't that these companies can't accept electronic submissions, they are limiting the amount of slush they have to wade through.

As for "solicited" submissions---over the years, many of the markets have put out various notices along the lines of "we invite submissions." I don't know what the currents status of the major magazine markets are, but I'd think even less of them if they only bought works from writers they hit up for works.

And a few short years of fanfic writing has brought me more readers---people who liked my stuff, and were kind enough to tell me so---than a much larger period of being rejected by the so-called pro markets. Since no money has been involved in either, I can see no practical difference.

(And complaints about "too lazy" apparently refer to proper use of type fonts---and only to that. But just what is lacking the desire to package one's printed manuscript in an envelope and send it through the regular (or overseas) mail?)

*****

Edit: You're very welcome, Tiergan. That particular page had been pointed out to me by editors as a good one to use and Robert Sawyer certainly knows whereof he speaks.

Wow.

I have to question why we can't argue over formatting but the political thread can go on arguing (less civilly not more so, thank you, Wolfe_boy--and I THOUGHT politics were supposed to be kept OFF this forum) for pages.

Apparently this is now a political debate forum instead of a writing one. My bad. *shrugs*

It's ugly, but nostalgic--like using those old typewriters without all the bother of feeding paper or jamming keys. Apparently underlining in lieu of italics and using all caps for chapter titles have also been recommended. But no bold text or lightning will strike you down.

I checked submission guidelines for some major markets. They're almost universal about not accepting e-submissions (Interzone is open to them a couple of months each year, the others not at all) and here's what they say about ms formatting:

Analog:

Manuscripts must be computer-printed or typed, double-spaced, on white paper, one side of the sheet only. Please avoid unusual or very small typefaces. Indent paragraphs but do not leave extra space between them.

Asimov's:

Manuscripts submitted to Asimov's must be neatly typed, double-spaced on one side of the sheet only, on bond paper

Interzone:

Please send your manuscript mailed flat or folded no more than once, in standard format (double spaced, good margins, printed on one side of the paper),

Fantasy and Science Fiction:

Please type your manuscript on clean white bond, double spaced, with one inch margins. For a good article on standard manuscript preparation, see sfwa.org/writing/vonda/vonda.htm.

Only F&SF specifically mentions the vonda article and by implication requests Courier. I guess Times Roman would be okay for the others provided it's not "very small".

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I guess it's just me, but "typed" also implies Courier.

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First time in a long time I've been insufficiently old-fashioned ;-)

Unlike the "Times New Roman" rule, which has come up in the Age of Computers and, except for a couple of expensive typewriter models, wasn't a factor in submissions back then...