posted
If a fairy and a human were to have a child, what might they be called? There are no half breeds in this world, the children would be fully either human or fairy, but I think they would still have a name to distinguish themselves...
Posts: 938 | Registered: May 2008
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posted
Assuming, perhaps incorrectly, that there are significant size differences between the two races I would think that the child would have to be the same race as the mother who carried it.
posted
Well, I used the name Hairy Potter in one of on-line RPG so it's been used. You can always use Hairy Thatcher, if you get my meaning.
Posts: 1271 | Registered: May 2007
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posted
If there are no half-breeds, I think their name would depend on the reason for naming them, and the way in which slang in your milieu is derived.
If it's an insult by which others know them, there are plenty of real-world precedents for such names. E.g. if they have vestigial wings from the fairy side of the family, maybe they're known as dodos.
If it's what they call themselves, for pride in their history perhaps, then do they think of themselves as what they are (human and fairy) or where they're from (Wessex, Lothlorien, ...)?
Perhaps their name depends on whether their mother or father was the human -- a fe-faerie or a ma-faerie. Perhaps the name depends more on their own sex, so, a faerboy or a faergirl.
If they inherit some magical power from the fairy side of the family, maybe they're named after the power--a flying boy, for example.
posted
Faelings. (assuming you don't like faerieman )
Edited to say, nevermind. I believe JeanneT tried that (which is probably why it stuck in my head) and I mentioned it has the same phonics as "failings".
[This message has been edited by InarticulateBabbler (edited June 30, 2008).]
posted
I actually think that would be like crossing a zebra with an elephant, and they could never conceive offspring. In fact, I believe the quintessential deifnition of the boundaries of a species is that "ability to produce a healthy offspring = same species."
But on a fantasy note---do whatever you want, that's part of the joy and love for fantasy. To escape the realms of reality.
a friend of mine sent this to me and I found it funny as heck.
Anyway a fairy and a human would not be all that hard. Fairies can either make themselves larger or make the humans smaller. Or they could use genetic modification.
quote:If a fairy and a human were to have a child, what might they be called? There are no half breeds in this world, the children would be fully either human or fairy, but I think they would still have a name to distinguish themselves...
Are you intending to undo the principles of genetic science, as well? The offspring of a male/father and female/mother will have genetic code from both parents. It may tend to look like one or the other, depending on which genes are resessive and which are dominant, but it WILL carry genetic code from both parents.
Your statement that there are no half breeds in this world, yet these "children" still have a unique name to distinguish themselves is contradictory. If no half-breeds exist, then why the need for a unique name? The culture would not give something a name if it does not exist, right?
It sounds to me like part of your fairy/human offspring's story might be the fact that it is unique, and that culturally, others don't know how to treat (or react to) him or her. Katherine Kerr writes great fantasy set in the world of Devvery. She calls the "elves" in her story the Westfolk... half-breeds will have characteristics of both parents... some may pass for human, but their elvish blood shows up in their reaction to iron or silver.
By saying the offspring is a product of the union of two species, yet is fully human or fully fairy, means you would relinquish a completely juicy plotline, that of the misfit child trying to carve a niche in a world where he or she may not quite fit into either category.
quote:Are you intending to undo the principles of genetic science, as well? The offspring of a male/father and female/mother will have genetic code from both parents.
Fairyness is more of a genetic trait than an actual different species. My sister has a genetic disorder called PKU and she can't have protein. People either have that trait or they don't have it, even if they have most of the genetic markers for it. Or another example might be male/female. You're not some mix of both, just becuse you have the genetic code of both parents. Maybe I just don't understand genetics well enough. Doesn't this make sense?
Also, about fairies being small in this world...They are not. I guess I should have specified. I'm not actually overly fond of the word fairy to describe them, I just haven't found a word I like better.
This idea is getting very close to what I want. Not quite though, because these particular people are likely to become changelings if they don't have a parent of the same race to raise them. I'll think on this one.
quote:By saying the offspring is a product of the union of two species, yet is fully human or fully fairy, means you would relinquish a completely juicy plotline, that of the misfit child trying to carve a niche in a world where he or she may not quite fit into either category.
Interesting thought. It just wouldn't work for this part of the story, but it's something to consider for later. I wonder if there is a way I could have it both ways?
posted
If fairyness is a trait, then if they have the trait they are fairies and if they don't have it they aren't.
It seems to me that you are talking about a culture based on a trait, so maybe it would help to consider the deaf culture as an analog?
I believe it's possible for a hearing child to be born to two deaf parents, but still grow up in the deaf culture. Even if it weren't possible, a child of a deaf parent and a hearing parent could be either, depending on whether or not the deafness was genetic. But regardless of which parent was deaf, the child would still probably be raised in the deaf culture in order to relate well to the deaf parent.
Now, if you're talking about a fairy/deaf child born to non-fairy/hearing parents, wouldn't the non-fairyhearing parents, if they cared about their child, enter the fairy/deaf culture as much as possible in order to help their child?
Of course, there might be non-fairy/hearing parents who would refuse to do that, thinking that their fairy/deaf child must learn to survive in a non-fairy/hearing world and focus on helping them be able to do that (read lips as opposed to learning to sign, in the deaf case).
As for the original question, if it's based on a trait that you either have or don't have, then you're either a fairy or not a fairy, and I don't see how anyone would be able to tell or would care to know whether both of your parents were fairy or not.
posted
Kathleen, for another take on this you might read The Sundering by Jacqueline Carey and about the half-elf, Ushahin, often referred to as the half-breed. That particular part always pained me and convinced me that Carey is a better writer than I had ever suspected previously.
Posts: 1588 | Registered: Jul 2007
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posted
If anyone remembers the little movie called fern gully that came out about 15 years or so ago, the fairy made the human smaller. So there for fairies and humans can in fact reproduce. Size is not the issue, it is genetics. How much of our DNA are fairies sharing?
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Mothers pass on mitochondrial DNA to their children, fathers do not. Fathers pass on Y chromosomes to their sons, mothers do not. Also, a son's x chromosome is entirely from the mother. So, there are actual scientific ways to limit what genes a kid gets. And there are lots of things which can confuse inheritence. Potentially controversial statement- consider a condition like autism. We believe it is genetic in some way, perhaps with an environmental trigger, but we really can't chart it the way we can say sickle cell. And of course, if you want, you can have genetic and environmental interact- like if you have a specific gene and are breastfed, you are smarter but if you lack that gene, it doesn't matter whether or not you are breastfed. So, if you actually care about making it genetically realistic, you can do just about anything and have it work. Of course, you have magic and faeries so it isn't like you are that tied to reality.
I personally hate definitions of species. You have all sorts of confusing situations- such as wolphins (who apparantly can mate with the parent species and have babies). You have mules of course, which are sterile and ligers and all sorts of stuff. And then we get into plants, which are simply a genetic mess. Isn't it wheat that has like 4 genomes? I am not a plant geneticist so I don't remember all the weird stuff but plants are crazy. And then of course you get to micro stuff where mating doesn't happen so species are very much a construct. Though that does remind me that I need to ask my boss what species my organism is this year.
[This message has been edited by sholar (edited June 30, 2008).]
posted
Thank you for all your suggestions. You've given me a lot to think about. I like the deaf culture analogy too. It's nice when something in the real world comes close to what I'm trying to do, and I didn't even notice.
posted
The notion that there's a genetic problem with the breeding of faeries and humans seems more of a science fiction problem, not a fantasy problem. Tolkien's elves and men seemed to be the same genetic species (he did not use that word) and the difference between them seemed to be philosophical and religious in nature.
I've seen non-technical reportage that there's been successful interbreeding between humans and chimpanzees...I doubt the truth of it, myself, but admit the possibility.
posted
I think it's important for me to have a firm understanding of what the difference is between humans and fairies. I'm not so sure that I need to explain the facts in any great detail in the actual story. I think a reader can sense when an author hasn't thought their world rules through very well.
So what I'm thinking about may seem like science fiction, but I doubt anyone would confuse the end product with science fiction. I wouldn't mind trying someday though.
quote:The notion that there's a genetic problem with the breeding of faeries and humans seems more of a science fiction problem, not a fantasy problem.
I would disagree with this. If you delve into the science and the genetics in the plot, then maybe you'd be setting the stage for the story to be a different genre than typical fantasy.
However, the author's coming to an understanding of how the genetics works is a simple case of world-building. As an author, you need to understand the root behind the societies, cultures, and politics you create, so you can also understand how characters will react. You don't necessarily need to detail these things in the plot as much as you need to know how your characters will relate to the world you've immersed them in.
posted
Of course, having two separate intelligent species inhabit one world begs the question of why they're there together, or why they would be.
The Neanderthals died off when Cro-Magnon man, effectively the same as all of us, appeared. (Possibly Cro-Magnon slaughtered the remaining Neanderthals---perhaps they weren't genetically different enough to constitute separate species. The literature is uncertain.)
After that, wherever humans went on Earth, the intelligent species they encountered were always other humans (despite some of the things said about each other).
I've got to assign "human-faery" worlds to the realm of fantasy alone---space travel might bring species that developed on different worlds together on yet others, but if there's only one world I can't see it as happening.
(I recall some of the background of Katherine Kerr's "Deverry" series, where humans were brought by magic into a world populated by elves, and a few other intelligent species that seemed to have also come from elsewhere. I gather a lot of slaughtering went on when they came into contact with each other. And I guess the trick, and the explanation, can be managed in fantasy---I liked the books a lot, but lost touch somewhere after the seventh or eighth book.)
posted
Depending on level of acceptance into the existing heirarchies they would probably be called an "abomination". If they are a truly unique creature they would be embraced or shunned from their society. Societies generally treat abberations as pariah so unless you have a VERY enlightened world, I'd tend toward them treating the offspring as freakish.
Also since you've indicated this is a VERY unique occurence I wouldn't think there would be a specific term for referring to the hybrid offspring.
Examine how the protag would refer to himself, chimera might work as well.
quote:The Neanderthals died off when Cro-Magnon man, effectively the same as all of us, appeared. (Possibly Cro-Magnon slaughtered the remaining Neanderthals---perhaps they weren't genetically different enough to constitute separate species. The literature is uncertain.)
My understanding is that when Homo Sapien appeared and began to inhabit the northwest (like Europe) the Neanderthals disappeared. There were always very few of them, around 10,000 we estimate, so they were likely absorbed.
posted
I think that they are currently sequencing the genome of a Neanderthal and that might answer a lot of questions regarding them. How related are we, did we mate back with them, stuff like that. I imagine that will be a very interesting paper.
Posts: 303 | Registered: Mar 2006
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posted
I was just watching--on the History Channel International--a program which depicted Neandethal and Homo Sapien hunted the same grounds. One theory is that Homo Sapien actually hunted Neanderthal into extinction. They DNA tested a skull of a Neanderthal and discovered that Neanderthal and Homo Spaien were two separate species. Apparently, it could only have a limited number of discrepencies and still be a derivative of the same species--which Neanderthal failed to produce.
Just an interesting side note.
Hmm. What if Neanderthal were really Trolls and dinosaurs were really Dragons and Aztecs really the aliens?
[This message has been edited by InarticulateBabbler (edited July 08, 2008).]
posted
My understanding was that they had not yet seen evidence of interbreeding between Neanderthal and homo sapien but that the testing was as yet incomplete. Well, actually they did find some evidence but they have had lots of contamination issues so they need to confirm.
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posted
Yes, I think I read something about the improbability of neanderthal DNA being passed down, suggesting they were a different species. But they still may have bene absorbed into homo sapien society (in theory) just never able to procreate with them, eventually dying off. Perhaps they were butchered.
But if so they survived quite a while. The last of which died off about 30,000 years ago, but the two species began inhabiting the same region (europe) for several thousand years.
It's all great source material for speculation and speculative fiction.
quote:What if Neanderthal were really Trolls and dinosaurs were really Dragons and Aztecs really the aliens?
You'd have the same problem every bad science fiction movie maker in the last century has had---they all lived in different times, and were never together all at once.
quote: You'd have the same problem every bad science fiction movie maker in the last century has had---they all lived in different times, and were never together all at once.
Yes, but if Aztec were from outer space, who's to say they didn't appear here in more than one time? And Sabertooth Tigers, Raptors, and Mastadons have been known to exist during a Homo Sapien-inhabited time; who's to say a tribe of Neanderthals--much like Nessie--didn't survive in some exotic cave somewhere?
posted
Imagine two colony ships of Aztecs launched from separate stars. (For some reason these primitive people have access to super advanced space technology) The closer ship may arrive centuries before the more distant one.
However, I don't really see the connection between Aztecs and aliens. If anything, the Aztecs saw the Spanish as aliens. And these aliens did what aliens do best, wipe out the original inhabitants through overwhelmingly superior technology.
posted
But what if the Aztecs had somehow accidentally discovered Spain instead of the other way around?
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Canines yes but from a failed colonization of earth long before you humans. They acutely devolved into the Wolves, Dogs, etc we know today from a intelligent race that you would call Werewolves. And yes I know of them for I am a Werewolf descendent after becoming one 3000 some odd years ago. I get recycled every time I die into a new body.
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I didn't mean I actually thought it happened that way . Have you ever read Pastwatch by OSC? It's interesting to think what could happen if one civilization had reached its peak earlier than when it actually happened. It's a great book.
[This message has been edited by Unwritten (edited July 10, 2008).]
posted
There's a running gag about the computer game "Civilization" (I think---I've never played), where some gamers have the goal of getting the first starship on its way before "B. C." becomes "A. D."
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