posted
So, purple prose is bad, and so is using a five dollar word when a simple word will do. Right?
This is advice I've dispensed, and internalized, and applied to my writing.
I checked the reading level of my completed upper grade YA Novel, and it was on a fourth grade reading level. Fourth grade. Nine year old's could read this.
Is that a bad thing?
How do you increase a reading level, without hurting the readability?
My nine year old niece right now is reading the last book in the Harry Potter series. Nine year olds are reading even upper level novels, should we keep them in mind when writing our books?
posted
I think that rules can be broken once you understand the reason behind them.
I use the word 'phantasmagorical' in one of my WIPs to describe a bizarre interaction the MC observes between two aliens. There are absolutely simpler words I could have used: strange, weird, alien, bizarre.
But the word 'phantasmagorical' is in itself so outlandish, and its definition more aptly describes the scene, that I won't change it even though one reader advised that I should.
No one keeps just single dollar bills in their wallet, you've probably got some five, ten, and twenty dollar bills as well. So my opinion is keep it simple when the scene is simple, and use the purple prose tactically and with a light hand.
I grew up thinking that if I had to grab a dictionary while reading every now and then, it wasn't necessarily a bad thing.
[This message has been edited by Osiris (edited December 06, 2010).]
posted
Also depends on the point of view of the character, I think, even when writing in third-person. A self-righteous, educated person might mention the allegorical references a particular emotional representation might invoke, whereas Joe Shmoe might think that same painting is sad. Use words your characters would use.
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posted
Yes indeed, Rhaythe makes a good point. Think of the POV characters level of education and occupation. Sometimes people will use their 'work jargon' for use in every day situations.
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posted
I personally wouldn't worry too much about reading level. Those reading level calculators focus solely on sentence length and vocabulary - the longer the sentences, and more multi-syllabic vocabulary you throw in the higher the reading level. So, if you have a lot of dialog in your story the reading level will be automatically lower because dialog sentences tend to be shorter than descriptive prose.
So, write the story you want, keeping the "voice" consistent with your chosen PoV. Should a reader stumble upon a word, they can always reach for the dictionary.
posted
4th grade! Geez. I wish I could get that high of a level. I'm serious my last novel came in at like 3.7 or something, and its supposed to be for an adult(None of me readers has said it was too simple though). Long story short, I struggle with it as well. My current WIP is young adult, or maybe a tad lower, but for some reason have yet to break the 3rd grade level a chapter. And yet if I force myself to write longer sentences or longer words it comes out off.
I would suggest to not worry about it unless your readers have started to complain.
posted
Yeah...why would you care about reading level? Is the story told clearly? Are there characters to root for? Do they overcome obstacles through their own power? And really... is the story awesome and something a reader would care about?
Reading level seems silly to me, why even calculate it. You know you aren't writing a picture book (unless, of course, you are, in which case you know what you are intending there), so who cares about the so-called level? If the story is a good one and told in a way that suits the genre and clearly communicates to the reader, that's all that matters.
posted
Well, if you're using some kind of software to check your reading level, you should take that with a grain of salt. What you want is feedback from an editor, or failing that from a reader in the target audience, or failing that from an intelligent reader who understands what you're up to.
Going on the software's advice, if you score lower in grade level than your target but it sounds right to you, I wouldn't worry about vocabulary or syntax. What you have to worry about it talking down to your grade level's mentality and interests. If you score high, then it's probably worth a look. But in the end you should cultivate your ear and trust it.
Different writers have different voices. Some write with very simple vocabulary, others are like leafing through a lean-an-obscure-word-a-day calendar (H.P. Lovecraft comes to mind). The most powerful writers seem to be a law unto themselves. J.K. Rowling trained an entire generation in a lexicon that didn't even *exist*.
I try to be clear and understandable, but sometimes I'll reach for an unusual world if I have reason to. In one nineteenth century scene which satirized Victorian adventure romances I used "despoil" instead of "rob", because that's the word Anthony Hope would have used. I also tend to write with different vocabularies depending on the POV character; I think of them as registers like in a pipe organ. A professor of Ancient Greek experiences a world of classical metaphors and literary tropes. "Pride" becomes "hubris". A "storm ocean" becomes a "wine-dark sea". A teenaged hoodlum doesn't have as many stops to pull, but his perception must be just as vivid, if not more so, using a smaller set of words.
posted
So, curiosity got the better of me and I ran a bunch of my stuff through a reading level program. It said I wrote at a 10th grade level, but I'm trying to hit the MG/YA market. Do I need to tone it down, or am I purple prosey -- aaagh, another reason to doubt my ability! It's been one of those days. I probably just need to read online less and write more.
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posted
For those wondering how to check reading level if you have Microsoft Office Word under options go to the 'spelling and grammar' tab and make sure you have 'show readability statistics' checked. Next time you check your document's spelling you will also get readability statistics.
posted
Interesting. I just ran some Lois McMaster Bujold, who (whom?) I idolize through. It says her reading level is 16, so college graduate. And her readability score is 32. On a scale of 1-100, where 10 would be a professorial dissertation and 90 would be a comic book. (mine came out in the 50-60's range). So, since she is obviously awesome, how useful should we consider worrying about those stats to be? hmmm.
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posted
I wouldn't worry about reading level as calculated by the MS Word bot or other reading level programs - for exactly the reason that a later poster on this thread pointed out - you can run well-published and successful authors through that sort of thing and they'll come out with something wacky.
Unless you're writing early chapter books or readers, where the specifics of vocabulary, sentence length, word usage ARE what's being taught (the story is incidental to these things) then it doesn't matter one whit.
A fourth grade reading level is GREAT. In a consulting project recently I had a requirement to deliver work at or below an 8th grade reading level and it was HARD. It's difficult to translate business speak into 8th or lower.
From my understanding, the way libraries and book stores categorize fiction is based on things like the age of the protagonist and thematic elements (e.g., a book like THE BOOK THIEF which features a protag who is 11 is shelved YA because of the darker thematic elements, evidenced by the narrator, who is Death.) Typically age 12, sometimes 13 and under is shelved J in a library. Starting around age 12/13 and moderate themes are JH. Advanced themes and 14+ is YA. There's more to the system but I'd have to ask my librarian friend, I think there's something about books written before 1973 featuring protags of a certain age and where that boundary line falls (apparently it changed after that year?) but I don't recall.
Anyway - my point is that rarely does reading level factor in to where a book is shelved, unless the reading level goes along with a mature theme and an older protag.
Also remember that almost ALL kids read UP in age - so 10 year olds want to read about 11 year olds and up, etc. (it is less common that they read down, Harry Potter is the universal exception.) This means that the 9 and 10 year old 4th graders are reading material featuring 12 and 14 year old protagonists.
HUNGER GAMES, which is a solidly YA book and one I wouldn't recommend to anyone under 13 unless I knew them REALLY well and even then I'd steer them elsewhere until they were older if they were asking my opinions, is being read by many fifth graders in my area, one local teacher even read it aloud to her fifth grade class (fifth graders are 10, turning 11. Katniss starts out in Hunger Games at 16, I believe.)
Good luck. I think a fourth grade reading level score means you've written a book that is not difficult to read, and that's a good thing.
posted
Doesn't seem to be in my version of Microsoft Works...I will explore later, and also the version of Word that's somewhere on this computer...
Does seem like kind of an odd idea for determining age level...as I recall, when I was a kid, I read above my age level...and puzzling out what the words meant added to my vocabulary, to my eventual great benefit.
(I remember clearly wondering what the word "shamming" meant...didn't seem to be "shaming"...from the context, I thought at first it was some kind of activity in the bathroom...somewhat later, though, I figured out what it meant.)
posted
What reading level indicators ignore is the content... and the content is the key not the reading level in determining if a novel is Adult, YA or MG.
You can describe a lot of violent and sexual behavior with short sentences and simple words.
quote: I checked the reading level of my completed upper grade YA Novel, and it was on a fourth grade reading level. Fourth grade. Nine year old's could read this.
Later on someone mentioned that MS Word can do this... you've inspired me to actually use Word to look at my stuff. I'm dying to know my software-assigned reading level.
Is there any online stuff that can analyze blocks of text in a similar fashion? Even better - is there one that somehow assigns a "purpleness" to it? I could have hours of fun adding and removing various words and subjects to go over the different rating boundaries.
Not to beat a dead horse since I comment on this all the time, but purple prose isn't always a bad thing. Profanity can be all sorts of things: funny, powerful, disgusting, and yes, sometimes bad. Just saying, Samuel L Jackson's Jules wouldn't have been the same character if he didn't carry a wallet that said BAMF on it.
posted
Purple prose can be part of the characterization, but a little will go a long way.
As for analyzing blocks of text, as micmcd requested, there was a link around here somewhere (if I remember correctly) to a website that does a "cloud" of a whole manuscript for you and shows you the frequency of your words by how large the font is for each word in the "cloud" -- does that make sense?
I'll see if I can find the link, because such an analysis can let you know what words you may be using too much.
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