Hatrack River Writers Workshop Post New Topic  Post A Reply
my profile login | register | search | faq | forum home

  next oldest topic   next newest topic
» Hatrack River Writers Workshop » Forums » Open Discussions About Writing » What's in a phrase?

   
Author Topic: What's in a phrase?
babooher
Member
Member # 8617

 - posted      Profile for babooher   Email babooher         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I was writing a revival scene set in a fantasy world. The Christian-like deity is referred to as the Maker. As I was writing along, I needed a kind of stock reply from the congregation. Something like "praise Jesus!" but obviously not that directly Christian based. So, I think to myself, the Maker makes things, so I type "Make it so!" and continue with the scene. After several paragraphs, I stopped. I swore. I wondered. Is the phrase completely owned by a certain space-faring captain? The phrase predates him by like a century, and I'm certainly using it in a different fashion and meaning, but I don't want to pull someone out of the story or make them think of that other iconic character. I mean, it isn't exactly "may the Force be with," material, but close.
Posts: 816 | Registered: May 2009  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
extrinsic
Member
Member # 8019

 - posted      Profile for extrinsic   Email extrinsic         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
"Make it so" is a nautical idiom used for centuries by English-speaking naval command staff speaking orders to subordinates. No, it's not "owned" by a certain spaceship captain; however, it will evoke associations.

I'm inclined to accept it regardless in a naval context. However, not in passionate call and response religious rituals. It's on the commanding side and might call down the rath of a deity for its presumptive blaspheme!?

In the context, I feel a pleading response to a ritual call might be called for. Or a somewhat sensible non sequitur. Dynamic dialogue's general forms are echo, colloquy (question and answer), non sequitur, and squabble, and melds of any of or all four.

Hallelujah! Amen! and the like are common responses to pulpit calls, echos, meaningful to penitents but non sequitur idioms for uninitiates. Praise be! and Blessed be! are less known, often used in Wiccan rites.

Consider exploring the call and response rites of a number of denominations to get a flavor of them and then artfully and uniquely follow their conventions.

Posts: 5162 | Registered: Jun 2008  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
LDWriter2
Member
Member # 9148

 - posted      Profile for LDWriter2   Email LDWriter2         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Could be "Amen,the Maker" Or "He is the Maker indeed."
Posts: 5240 | Registered: Jun 2010  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Reziac
Member
Member # 9345

 - posted      Profile for Reziac   Email Reziac         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by babooher:
I was writing a revival scene set in a fantasy world. The Christian-like deity is referred to as the Maker. As I was writing along, I needed a kind of stock reply from the congregation. Something like "praise Jesus!" but obviously not that directly Christian based. So, I think to myself, the Maker makes things, so I type "Make it so!"

I like this. If you put them in close association the first time, it'll probably avoid the Certain Captain issue... which actually did not occur to me from your post!
Posts: 746 | Registered: Dec 2010  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Robert Nowall
Member
Member # 2764

 - posted      Profile for Robert Nowall   Email Robert Nowall         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
"Make it so" makes it sound like the bald guy they called the captain on "Star Trek: The Next Generation"---whatever its origins.
Posts: 8728 | Registered: Aug 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
babooher
Member
Member # 8617

 - posted      Profile for babooher   Email babooher         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
LDWriter2, I thought about "He makes it so," but so far I've been able to avoid assigning a gender on this all-mighty. Linking that a bit to what extrinsic wrote, I think the normal responses are short, so "He makes it so," is about as long as I'd like it. Originally, I thought about "Praise Jesus!" or even "blessed be" being three syllables in length (I always think the blessed in blessed be is pronounced bles-sed) and then figured "make it so" was the same syllabic length. And while I can see it being an imperative, I hear it as more pleading. Even something like "Forgive me, Father, for I have sinned," is technically an imperative.

For right now, I'm not letting this stop the progression of the story because it is kind of minor. Sometimes the little details do really matter, but first must be the story. Then I can finalize in round 2.

Posts: 816 | Registered: May 2009  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
rcmann
Member
Member # 9757

 - posted      Profile for rcmann   Email rcmann         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I suppose, "I wanna make it with you," would be considered inappropriate?
Posts: 884 | Registered: Feb 2012  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
extrinsic
Member
Member # 8019

 - posted      Profile for extrinsic   Email extrinsic         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Be it so (so be it)? Or, By Almighty Grace.

I feel that a strong and clear yet askew revival call response could be unique, but recognizable from its patterns and conventions, for an alternate world scenario. Patterns and conventions is a folklorist's concept that identifies and analyzes texts, traditions, and materials for their underlying influences on and influences from folk groups' shared expressions, like an evangelical religious group's revival meeting. Whatever comes up, I feel also that it should in some small or large way develop the cultural milieu.

Posts: 5162 | Registered: Jun 2008  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
InarticulateBabbler
Member
Member # 4849

 - posted      Profile for InarticulateBabbler   Email InarticulateBabbler         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
My first thought was "So be it," as extrinsic mentions above, because that is the definition of Amen. But that wasn't quite what you indicated. A few suggestions, take or leave:

  • Fashioned by Him
  • And thus it is
  • By Glory's design
  • From His hands

*Note all of the "His"s are interchangeable with "Hers," because it always seems to be a "Him" and you may not want that.

ALSO, and this is something not mentioned: Shai Hulud (the worms in Dune) are worshipped as the Maker or Makers.

Hope this helps.

Posts: 3682 | Registered: Jan 2007  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
babooher
Member
Member # 8617

 - posted      Profile for babooher   Email babooher         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I have always found Shai Hulud to be an awesomely sounding title. A lot of the original Dune just sounds so epic. I never thought Maker was super original, but I find it interesting that it links back to a book I treasure even though it wasn't my intention.

The intention behind a lot of this is for resonance. I don't mind this sounding a lot like Christianity, so long as it isn't Christianity. My names of places have all been designed to sound like, but not be, real. All of this is to enhance the cultural milieu. And I understand the importance these small details can make. Going back to Dune, think how powerful but somewhat small the Litany of Fear is. Or the Gom Jabber. Or Shai Hulud. It all builds and enriches.

Posts: 816 | Registered: May 2009  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Kathleen Dalton Woodbury
Administrator
Member # 59

 - posted      Profile for Kathleen Dalton Woodbury   Email Kathleen Dalton Woodbury         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
For whatever it may be worth, OSC uses The Maker in his Hatrack River stories.

How about "Make it Be" as your response?

Posts: 8541 | Registered: A Long Time Ago!  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
wetwilly
Member
Member # 1818

 - posted      Profile for wetwilly   Email wetwilly         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
"Make it so" definitely makes me think immediately of Star Trek, and I'm not even a fan. "Make it be" actually has the same effect for me.
Posts: 1528 | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
hoptoad
Member
Member # 2145

 - posted      Profile for hoptoad   Email hoptoad         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
so be it... as extrinsic said, I like it because it is not florid and is more contemplative and has a sense of resolve to it.
Posts: 1683 | Registered: Aug 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
babooher
Member
Member # 8617

 - posted      Profile for babooher   Email babooher         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Changed it to "As it is made." I think that will work. The change from an imperative to a declarative in the past tense fits better anyway.
Posts: 816 | Registered: May 2009  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Reziac
Member
Member # 9345

 - posted      Profile for Reziac   Email Reziac         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by babooher:
Changed it to "As it is made." I think that will work. The change from an imperative to a declarative in the past tense fits better anyway.

It feels completely different (and far more religious) in what context we have, and I like it, a lot.
Posts: 746 | Registered: Dec 2010  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
   

Quick Reply
Message:

HTML is not enabled.
UBB Code™ is enabled.
UBB Code™ Images not permitted.
Instant Graemlins
   


Post New Topic  Post A Reply Close Topic   Feature Topic   Move Topic   Delete Topic next oldest topic   next newest topic
 - Printer-friendly view of this topic
Hop To:


Contact Us | Hatrack River Home Page

Copyright © 2008 Hatrack River Enterprises Inc. All rights reserved.
Reproduction in whole or in part without permission is prohibited.


Powered by Infopop Corporation
UBB.classic™ 6.7.2