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Has anyone heard of Outskirts Press? Do you know if they are reliable? Trustworthy? I'm considering publishing with them. I still have a little way to go before I'm officially ready, but I'm trying to plan ahead. Thanks!
Posts: 114 | Registered: Feb 2014
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A survey of the Outskirts Press offerings that are accessible, to me, looks like inflated charges for questionable services, at about three times what nonpredatory independent sources charge.
$00.014 cents basic charge per word for copyediting services that are little more than a grammar check application basic proofread and not competent human-editor evaluated strikes me as absurd. Anyone with a grammar check application can do that themselves at no cost.
The only presses for independent and self-publishing worth a writer's cost at this time are Amazon's CreateSpace and Lulu, which charge nothing until a book project is ready for final proof approval. Then they only require a purchase of one copy for that final proofing pass. One copy.
After that proof approval, other costs may arise, though at actual, noninflated fees. Distribution package about $100 for premier distribution, free for standard distribution package, and ISBN assignment, free for their ISBN assignment, about $100 for an independent ISBN. Separately, copyright registration will cost $35.00, though no longer required to enjoy most copyright protections except for additional litigation benefits.
Theoretically, a writer may self-publish globally at the cost of one book. At most around $300 all in.
If a writer is interested in a personal equivalent of a vanity press, format the book, upload to Lulu or CreateSpace, order volume copies at quantity discount, and hand them out and sell them at will.
Actually, I strongly suspect Outskirts Press and others offering similar services, many others, use either Lulu or CreateSpace as their publishing portal. These services are just pass-through operations that grossly inflate the value of their self-worth.
Edit: A check of Better Business Bureau consumer compliants against Outskirts Press reveals that general dissatisfaction with the company comes from sale overpressure and poor communication with consumers, problems with delivering promised and adverstised services and charges, escalating al la carte charges, and lack of consumer support and support personnel incompetency. Limited consumer awareness of what their obligations are contributes to problems, certainly; however, any publisher worthy of the name knows complications will arise with unsavvy writers and makes appropriate accommodations. Outskirts Press places that onus entirely on consumers.
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Reading this gets me to thinking...anybody got an equivalent of this one that they can recommend?
Posts: 8809 | Registered: Aug 2005
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Yeah, I was going to ask the same question. The Preditors and Editors website is a big help! Thanks Meredith!
Posts: 114 | Registered: Feb 2014
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Well, with small presses the genre and audience matter a lot. We'd have to know more--and then it's possible that no one would be familiar enough with the niche to offer a suggestion. Or maybe someone would. (I had no hesitation in subbing my YA historical fantasy to Shadow Mountain, but they have a narrow set of interests, so I can't know if they're right for your story.)
If you're interested in digital publishing, then there are a few of us here who could give you a few pointers on doing it yourself--without a publisher of any size--if that's what you want.
Posts: 4633 | Registered: Dec 2008
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Would it be better to publish with a publisher that specializes in my genre versus a publisher that has a wide range of genres?
Posts: 114 | Registered: Feb 2014
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Publisher selection was straightfoward during the 1950s. Four hundred thirty or so to choose from back then and each to a degree specialized. They have mostly agglomerated into the Big Six Sisters and now operate individually as subsidiary imprints of transnational corporations. The number of publishers expanded exponentially with the Digital Age onset to tens of thousands of imprints ranging from divisions of the top tier, middle tier-smaller conglomerates, bottom tier individual publishers, and independents. Also, many of the top tier imprints no longer accept unsolicited submissions. Their submission guidelines require agent representation. The smaller the house, the fewer projects they take on, too. Smaller publishers may only take on one or two book projects a year, middle tier maybe twelve or so.
Due diligence seeking out a publisher to target--suggestions from the marketplace recommend looking at similar properties--comparables--and targeting those houses. Look at home, office, bookstore, online, library shelves and choose publishers of those books you think are closely like yours. Also, explore for which agent or agency represents the writer, if any. Odds are the writer is represented. An agent also takes on a limited number of projects per year, a dozen or so maybe.
The larger the house or agency, the greater likelihood greater investment in project development will be brought to bear, editorial effort and expertise. Smaller houses invest appreciably and progressively less editorial effort and expertise. Yet larger houses are more competitive in both competing submitted works seeking publication and competition between imprints for revenue. This applies to agencies as well as publishers.
A novel is a work until marketed for publication, a project until it has been contractually taken on, then it becomes a property ripe for development.
Every writer learns this lesson: rejection is the norm, usually after waiting an unbearably long time, and by informal form slip that is solely a generic pass, "No thank you, not right for us at this time." Probably because the four corners of the work don't meet expectations and standards, beginning with style, then craft, then voice, then marketplace appeal. A work may have the highest potential appeal and be too burdensome a project due to numerous style, craft, or voice problems. That kind of work, if topically important, timely, relevant, might be considered if the writer is willing to accept a ghost writer partner to repackage the product.
Frankly, if "traditional" publishing is wanted, then an agent is a workable choice, because agents have expertise in marketplace expectations and standards. Some agencies apply editorial expertise and, of course, charge higher commissions for their services. An agent has the connections and wherewithal to place a project with the most suitable publisher. Chose an agent who represents the "genre" of the work.
"Traditional" publishing as most in the culture perceive it currently is only a century old, by the way. Houses not accepting unagented submissions is only about four decades old, too. Tragically, agents not accepting unsolicted submissions is a growing trend too. Another marketplace screening practice, not yet emergent, will become the norm, probably editor agencies. Before that comes to pass, though, the editing industry will have to develop standardized, professional conventions, standards, and practices. Professional English Editors Association!? International English? By dialect? British or U.S.?
Convention-based genre publishers, like science fiction and fantasy, are generally more open to unsolicited submissions than imprints that specialize in mainstream or commercial fiction. Baen, DAW, Tor, for examples. Random House is a near impenetrable bastion without agent representation.
I feel Random house is on one hand an ideal top tier publisher, on the other hand, I have qualms about their publishing vision. They bought at auction Charles Frazier's Thirteen Moons for an $8.5 million advance against royalties and lost an unrecoupable majority of it, at least $5.5 million on the deal, only selling 375,000 copies in the novel's initial release seasons. Of course, that number of sales would give most any writer publishing ecstasies, but the unrecouped advance made Frazier into a pariah writer. The novel lacked the appeal of Frazier's prior breakout blockbuster Cold Monutain. Random House didn't evaluate the novel as deeply as is a best practice. Tel est la vie d'escritur.
Brooke18, submitting to open publishers that specialize in your genre or houses that publish a variety, or agents, has advantages and disadvantages. Advantage: the house has a reputation for and marketing savvy and expertise representing and promoting the genre. Disadvantage: your work will compete with others specific to that genre and its subcategories. A big-name imprint will speak volumes about product quality. A no-name imprint, though, might be a more straightforward house from which to debut.
In the end, ultimately, no bones or ands, ifs, or buts about it, where and who represents and publishes is really of little consequence anymore, except if the work doesn't see publication. The writing first, foremost, and all exclusively matters for generating buzz, Buzz, BUZZ throughout the culture. Writer due diligence is due in that regard as well as due diligence in work marketing research.
quote:Originally posted by Brooke18: Would it be better to publish with a publisher that specializes in my genre versus a publisher that has a wide range of genres?
There's no simple answer to that except, "It depends."
Big vs. Small Publisher:
It depends on what you want.
If it's to see your book on the shelves of your local bookstore, then you're better off going with a large (big five) to mid-sized publisher. Anymore, some of the really small presses do mostly digital (ebook) publishing. (Frankly, IMO, if you're going digital it's better to just do it yourself.)
You've got a better chance of an advance and help with publicity from a big publisher, but there's no guarantee of that wherever you go. More and more, authors are having to figure that out for themselves. (And it's hard.)
Caveat, you have to really research the small presses. Some are rip-off, like Outskirts. Some mean well, but the owners just really don't have enough experience to know what they're doing. Some, even ones that have been operating a while, go out of business. When that happens, your rights can be tied up for years. (This happened to a friend of mine. Published in June. A couple of months later, the publisher announced they were closing. Fortunately, they were a reputable company and they returned their authors' rights--plus--before closing their doors. That doesn't always happen.)
It depends on your book.
Some books are right for niche markets served by smaller publishers and wouldn't likely get the attention of bigger companies. Then again, digital works better in some genres than others. I wouldn't try it with a middle grade story.
As far as the genre-specific question, most of the big publishers have genre-specific and/or audience specific imprints, so I don't know that it matters, that way.
If you tell us the genre--fantasy, science fiction, romance, whatever--and the audience--adult, new adult, young adult, middle grade--maybe someone could give a more specific answer.
Posts: 4633 | Registered: Dec 2008
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All in all, really, besides wariness for predators and unstable markets, going ahead and pursuing the submission marketing process is most educational. The only reason, though, I'd recommend prematurely marketing a work for submission is for the dress-rehearsal practice.
Pick a target, agent or publisher, research the house, ask for a catalog and any other brochure literature they'll send free, ask the house pointed questions not answered on their web site or in their promotional brochures, etc., note and accommodate to all their submission guidelines, and then either select a new target and repeat or send in the submission package. Multiple options is a best practice.
One house may not pan out during the research phase. They have a full list of green monster magician romance thrillers, for example. A house may be a fantasy specialist, but they might be temporarily closed to fantasy because they have an overburdensome accumulation of submissions to process. A house might also be temporarily closed because of a schedule break, for a vacation, because they close, say, for a summer season while the mom and pop owners wait tables.
Trial and error teaches most. Consider the process a learning opportunity experience. Doing so defuses a lot of the hurt and anguish of rejection.
quote: Would it be better to publish with a publisher that specializes in my genre versus a publisher that has a wide range of genres?
This really depends on your expectations, and more importantly, how realistic they are. Those vulture self-publishing companies are bad, but they only work because people have unrealistic expectations of what their writing is capable of in the market.
If you simply want to have several hundred books to sell in your off time, you can do that on your own without a middleman. Getting an ISBN, getting it copyrighted, getting it put in an appropriate doc so that it can be printed by a book printing company, are all doable, and probably about as expensive as you'll end up paying for someone to do it for you (who lure you in with cheap prices before upping the fees over time).
The question becomes, once you're published, then what? What are your expectations?
If you truly think your writing is marketable enough to even be considered by traditional publishing, you might as well be patient, research publishers, and send off targeted packages for responses.
If you have doubts about how marketable your writing is, throw it up on kindle for free and get into a swapping group where people trade their novels to read. This is actually quite popular on Amazon, and I'm surprised to say that even though I haven't done that since 2003, I still get emails from people asking to swap novels. It's always a way to go to see if your work will catch fire.
In the end, you'll probably only get in a bad situation if you let desperation cloud rational thinking when it comes to publishing.
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