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Author Topic: Another run from a different angle
Kirona
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Keeping in mind suggestions from my last thread here (Title pending, but here's the start), I have made an entirely new beginning for my novel. I just hope it works better...

Oh, and this is actually 12 lines, or probably 11 if I were to remove the paragraph breaks, but that's how it breaks down without giving you a nonsensical partial sentence at the end. >.<

Anywho, here it is:

I never could bring myself to actually sleep; there were spells that worked just as well, and they didn’t bring the nightmares that plagued my dreams. Of course, that didn’t mean that I never saw those images. I just didn’t see them as often. After all, they weren’t dreams in the normal sense. No, they were memories.
I saw war from every angle, as if I had been every soldier involved, from the lowliest of recruits to the great heroes. I saw war as a dragon, though a dragon I am not. Nor am I human, elven, or gryphon, but I have seen the war through those eyes as well; thousands of memories, each ending with the same thing.
Each ending with a magical explosion that scarred the world.


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Marzo
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I like this. The narrator intrigues me, and his/her ability to see every death - not to mention that magical explosion.

I didn't catch any technical nits, nor anything that put me off as far as content is concerned. On the contrary, this is well done!

:)


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MrsBrown
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I’m hooked, but there are distractions. I found the first three lines to be too much abstract info; some of those details could be worked in later, and the memories are far more interesting. The memories have a ‘voice’ that I find appealing; the earlier lines detract from it.

I’d suggest condensing the first three lines to one sentence. We could find out about sleep and spells later; for now all I need to know is that s/he sees others’ memories (while awake or dreaming).

One other thought: it sounds like the MC is remembering way back; I hope you will quickly shift to a more immediate experience, unfolding events as they occur.


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InarticulateBabbler
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I think MrsBrown is on to something, with condensing the first paragraph.

Maybe something like:
I used spells in lieu of actual sleep for they kept the nightmares at bay. That didn't mean I was spared the images, just the frequency with which I saw them. They weren't really dreams, they were memories--the memories of others.

Otherwise, nice hook. Be careful of getting into too deep an infodump; show me one of these memories...a relevant one, and then I'm sold. But, you have a page or so to do that.

Hope this helps.


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Kirona
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Yay, I'm not confusing everyone nearly as much on this one!

hehe, let's see...

Ah, MrsBrown, thank you for reminding me to bring it into the present quickly, and thank you for pointing out how the spell component is a disruption (spell component... uhm, I didn't mean to have a pun there, but hey, whatever works........).

InarticulateBabbler, thanks for the anti-infodump reminder. Also, I grabbed your suggestion and modified it somewhat, so thanks for that as well. The part at the end, though, 'the memories of others,' didn't fit - the memories are those of the MC, though not in the conventional sense, so I pulled that.

This in mind, here's the revised beginning:

I used spells in lieu of actual sleep; they kept the nightmares at bay. That didn't mean I never saw those images; the magic just reduced the frequency with which I saw them. They weren't really dreams, though; they were memories, and I couldn’t always keep them suppressed.
I saw war from every angle, as if I had been every soldier involved, from the lowliest of recruits to the great heroes. I saw war as a dragon, though a dragon I am not. Nor am I human, elven, or gryphon, but I have seen the war through those eyes as well; thousands of memories, each ending with the same thing.
Each ending with a magical explosion that scarred the world.


...

Why do I feel as though the first part isn't actually condensed as much as it's just re-worded?

(Edited to change things that made my brain scream in melodrama-induced terror)

[This message has been edited by Kirona (edited December 03, 2007).]


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ASB
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Hi Kirona,

I'm new here but am interested in helping if I can.

The second sentence seems forced and redundant. Try it without the second sentence and see if it conveys all the same information.

Also, stick with either "nightmares" or "dreams" for a consistent feel in the first paragraph.

Since your character is having problems with seeing these memories, it also feels like a tense problem to use the word "saw" instead of "see" in the second paragraph. I think "see" would also create a feeling of immediacy that would pull me in more.

Good start though, creates a sense of angst and mystery, with enough hints that I will get more information soon.


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skadder
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I used spells in lieu of actual sleep; they kept the nightmares at bay. That didn't mean I never saw those images(double negative-- Also you earlier you say that they kept the nightmares at bay.); the magic just reduced the frequency (too scientific a word -- 'often' is better) with which I saw them. They weren't really dreams, though; they were memories, and I couldn’t always keep them suppressed (try a word less 'ology-- or re-phrase '..they still popped up at odd times..').
I saw war from every angle, as if I had been every soldier involved, from the lowliest of recruits to the great(est of) heroes. I saw war as a dragon, though a dragon I am not. Nor am I human, elven, or gryphon, but I have seen the war through those eyes as well; thousands of memories, each ending with the same thing.
(Each ending --repetitive just do a dash or em-dash thingy onto the end of the last sentence.)with a magical explosion that scarred the world.

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InarticulateBabbler
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quote:

That didn't mean I never saw those images(double negative-- Also you earlier you say that they kept the nightmares at bay.); the magic just reduced the frequency (too scientific a word -- 'often' is better) with which I saw them.

Good call. It would be much better simplified: Though I still saw images, it was not as often.

"The magic just reduced..." in the second sentence, is redundant to the "spells...kept the nightmares at bay." in the first.


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Kirona
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o.O

It seems that I broke it. Heh, my first bit of feedback on this one is that there are distractions. Then I go and change it and get a zillion problems.

Ah well, such is life. Besides, I now have the amazing Duct Tape: Author Edition.

Hehehe, Time to fix things, because everyone knows that you can fix anything with enough duct tape. Let me see what I can do here...

*pokes at it*

Well, here's a brand new (read: absolutely covered in duct tape) version of this introduction, though I can definitely no longer claim that it's actually '13' lines. It's closer to 10, or maybe 9 if paragraph breaks are ignored.

I used spells in lieu of actual sleep; they helped to hold the nightmares at bay. That’s not to say these images never entered my mind; they just didn’t appear as often. These weren’t normal nightmares, though; these were memories.
I saw war from every angle, as if I had been every soldier involved, from the lowliest of recruits to the great heroes. I saw war as a dragon, though a dragon I am not. Nor am I human, elven, or gryphon, but I have seen that war through those eyes as well; thousands of memories, each ending with the same thing – a magical explosion that scarred the world.


TADA! Now, does it run better than it did before, or does it now vomit smoke and flames like my friend's car? ...he thinks (uhm, thought) that the duct tape saying is literal. This is not so when speaking of a car's engine.

I don't get rides from him anymore.

... I need to focus, but hey, why not ramble? I separate it all nicely enough into paragraphs. If you don't like the irrelevant, skip it. xD

(Edited for punctuation and spelling errors)

[This message has been edited by Kirona (edited December 05, 2007).]


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skadder
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>That’s not to say these images never entered my mind.

Still a double negative. Why not say it clearly?

The images still came to me, but less often.

I think you have lost some of the poetry of the original peice. I like the last sentence better, though.


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Kirona
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>.<

I don't totally understand how that's a double negative...

*looks for (decent/reputable) grammar sites*

...

It seems that what I'm aiming for in this sentence is called a litote. As far as I can tell, it's structured properly to be such, and the concept that the line tries to get across seems to work better with my current line than your suggestion (at least in my mind).

Some of the pages I viewed say that this form or writing is correct only in informal works, while others say that it's acceptable in formal works as well.

Do you really think that it would flow better with your suggestion? My mind comes crashing to a halt when I switch the lines, and I don't know how to adapt the rest of the intro without effectively scrapping the thing and starting anew... again.


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skadder
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Mine wasn't intended to be a useable version, just how to do it without the 'double negative'. It's not that they're never allowed--I find them confusing.

I was suggesting you do it your way--it's your voice, i just recommend avoiding 'litotes'(?).


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Kirona
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Curse me and my over-analytical brain.

Okay, let me take another look at this thing...

Here's another shot at it, and I'm pretty sure the double negative is gone:

I used spells in lieu of actual sleep; they suppressed most of the images in my head. Of course, I still saw something of the past on occasion, but they had become an occasional pain rather than a nightly torment. I could never cope well with these images – these memories.
I saw war from every angle, as if I had been every soldier involved, from the lowliest of recruits to the great heroes. I saw war as a dragon, though a dragon I am not. Nor am I human, elven, or gryphon, but I have seen that war through those eyes as well; thousands of memories, each ending with the same thing – a magical explosion that scarred the world.

Hooray, no more double negative!

...

Thoughts?


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ASB
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Really good. Just a good flow and plenty of information. Just one little tweak if I may suggest.

'Of course, I still saw something of the past on occasion, but they had become an occasional pain rather than a nightly torment.'

'Of course, I still saw something of the past on occasion, but no more nightly torment.'


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Wolfe_boy
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I'm interested in this... apocalyptic fantasy, but I'm feeling a bit more of an in-your-face edge to it than one typically gets from High Fantasy. Technically, it's pretty good too - don't stress too much about the double negative. I only really have one comment.

You seem to be separating the fact that your MC has dreams/nightmares, from the actual topic of the nightmares. MrsBrown and IB have the right of it - be economical with your words. Combine the two paragraphs into one, and determine what is important. Is it important at this juncture to tell us that your MC uses spells to quell his dreams? The hook here is the dreams, is it not? Why spend part of your first 13 telling us about how he tries to stop the dreams? You could have your MC wake up and comment, either to himself or another character, that his sleeping spell isn't as effective as it used to be, that the dreams are starting to come more vividly again, and you could include this slightly later in your first chapter for use in character building. After making that change, you could work more detail into describing the dreams, or how it makes your MC feel, rather than what he does about it in a passive, escapist sort of way. For now, the hook is the dreams.

Focus on that.

Jayson Merryfield


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Kirona
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Thanks for all the feedback, and I apologize for my delayed reply; life is, uhm, ... interesting sometimes.

I suppose the dreams are the hook, though that hadn't been my original intention. I can work with that, though; a bit of modification to the first part of the story will make this a lot easier.

Gah, if only I could focus totally on this right now; I feel like I'm 5 seconds from thinking up the perfect way to write this thing, but I only have 3 seconds. Maybe when I have time, I can get this moving on a more consistent basis, but for now, I don't think I can work on this for a while.

Oh well.

Thanks again for all of the feedback.


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