Hatrack River Writers Workshop   
my profile login | search | faq | forum home

  next oldest topic   next newest topic
» Hatrack River Writers Workshop » Forums » Fragments and Feedback for Books » Untitled (for now...)

   
Author Topic: Untitled (for now...)
Teraen
Member
Member # 8612

 - posted      Profile for Teraen   Email Teraen         Edit/Delete Post 
Hello all. Here's a working intro for a fantasy novel I'm working on. Let me know what ye all think.


In a province of the Idumean Empire far from Irreantum an old man was lying on top of a hill. His old fingers were interlinked underneath his old skull, providing the pillow common to those who could read stars. Of the remaining few who knew the ancient art, he alone was watching the sky tonight.

He was focused on a group of three stars he had been watching for some time. He had long ago lost count of how many years it had been. Forming the corners of a perfect triangle spanning the horizon, each shared a faint hint of blue. They seemed to alternate brightness as they shimmered in the sky. Even after all these years of watching them, they were far enough apart he was unable to tell which was brightest. It vexed him to no end.

[This message has been edited by Kathleen Dalton Woodbury (edited May 30, 2009).]

EDIT: I forgot to add in my pitch/summary. It reads something like this:

When a mysterious plague kills the woman he loves, Teraen is driven to find the evil enveloping the land. Taken under the wing of a powerful mage, Teraen soon finds his way into the very heart of the Empire as a member of the elite Praetorian Guard. But when his duties come into conflict with his quest for the truth, Teraen learns the hard way that truth is treason in the Empire of Lies... and the truth is more amazing, and more frightening, than he could have ever imagined...

[This message has been edited by Teraen (edited May 31, 2009).]


Posts: 496 | Registered: May 2009  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
InarticulateBabbler
Member
Member # 4849

 - posted      Profile for InarticulateBabbler   Email InarticulateBabbler         Edit/Delete Post 
Hi, welcome to Hatrack.

Here's My take:

quote:

In a province of the Idumean Empire[,] far from Irreantum[,] an old man [was lying on top<--lay atop is less static] of a hill. His [old<--Redundnat. I think you can find a better adjective, if one is truly needed.] fingers were interlinked underneath his [old skull<--[Is he flesh-less? if not, this is redundant, and adds nothing new to the character or plot], providing the pillow common to those who could read stars[Is it night? Or are the stars visible during the day?]. Of the remaining few who knew the ancient art, he alone [was watching<--watched is less static the sky tonight.

He was focused on a group of three stars he had been watching for some time[Why?]. He had long ago lost count of how many years it had been[He's been staring at that cluster of stars for YEARS???]. Forming the corners of a perfect triangle [Either a comma or a conjunction should be here.] spanning the horizon, each shared a faint hint of blue. They seemed to alternate brightness[es?[,]] [as they shimmered in the sky<--[Redundant: this is pretty much what you just described.]. Even after all these years of watching them, they were far enough apart he was unable to tell which was brightest. It vexed him to no end.


1) I have no bearings: What is the Idumean Empire? What is Irreantum? (I'd be willing to read on to find out, if this looked to be headed somewhere.

2) Who is he? I get no sense of his character--more than patient. What is his name? Is he human? He knows who he is, what he thinks of himself as being "called", so should we.

3) Why should I care about a mundane day? I could see that a subtle hook for some would be his incredible patience, but it doesn't do enough for me. It smacks of withholding. Why is he watching those stars? Why does he care which is the brightest?

I have no indication of what time this is supposed to be in or in which direction the story is headed. There is no mysticism, magic or speculative element. I love the pitch, that has a great hook, but I can't see any of it from the first 13. Is there any way you can move it closer to something happening? Also, there are words, genre-specific words and words that indicate forward motion, that you could employ to make this seem less mundane.

I hope this helps.

[This message has been edited by InarticulateBabbler (edited May 31, 2009).]


Posts: 3687 | Registered: Jan 2007  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Teraen
Member
Member # 8612

 - posted      Profile for Teraen   Email Teraen         Edit/Delete Post 
Hmm.. I hadn't even noticed myself using the passive voice. Thanks for pointing it out. I think I'll rework some of those problems you mentioned, but first I would like to ask:

You wrote amazement that he'd been watching the stars for years. Did you read that he had been studying them for years, or that he had physically been watching them without doing anything else for years?


Posts: 496 | Registered: May 2009  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
MrsBrown
Member
Member # 5195

 - posted      Profile for MrsBrown   Email MrsBrown         Edit/Delete Post 
I read that he had been studying them for years, and my reaction echoes what IB said. Its about as exciting as saying he'd been farming for years (okay, well, a little more interesting than THAT). So what?

Your pitch is great, so I trust that you will be able to write a good hook.

[This message has been edited by MrsBrown (edited June 01, 2009).]


Posts: 785 | Registered: Mar 2007  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
InarticulateBabbler
Member
Member # 4849

 - posted      Profile for InarticulateBabbler   Email InarticulateBabbler         Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
He was focused on a group of three stars he had been watching for some time. He had long ago lost count of how many years it had been.

I took this literally. Nothing says "studying". Did you not mean he'd been focused on the star-cluster for so many years he'd lost track?

I thinki this is where Sir Arthur C. Clarke's advice should be remembered (paraphrasing): Our job as writers in not to write so that the reader understands, our job is to write so the reader can't possibly misunderstand.

Remember, speculative fiction readers tend to take each sentence literally.

I hope this helps.


Posts: 3687 | Registered: Jan 2007  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Sixbells
Member
Member # 8610

 - posted      Profile for Sixbells   Email Sixbells         Edit/Delete Post 
quote:

In a province of the Idumean Empire far from Irreantum an old man was lying on top of a hill. His old fingers were interlinked underneath his old skull

I have trouble with the skull, I have images of him looking like skeletor, I just think the word has too much power behind it to be used in this manner. Normally when I think of skulls, the image it gives me is quite dark. An old man resting his weary head, his wringed fingers cupped behind his neck… etc would be more in lines with what I would expect. For a moment I thought perhaps that all he had was a skull?

quote:

He was focused on a group of three stars he had been watching for some time. He had long ago lost count of how many years it had been

There are overlapping time periods here. “For sometime” suggest recent past , then you switch to “long ago lost count of how many years it had been”. I think you just need to focus on which time period is important to the plot and cancel one or the other; I think within 13 lines you will risk creating confusing if you focus on two periods.

I don’t feel any strong hooks here and I found it hard to become engaged. All I came away with after reading this is an old man has been watching stars and can’t tell which one is the brightest.

Having said that I thought the pitch was great and I would have read on past the 13 lines on the strength of it.


[This message has been edited by Sixbells (edited June 01, 2009).]

[This message has been edited by Sixbells (edited June 01, 2009).]


Posts: 35 | Registered: May 2009  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Teraen
Member
Member # 8612

 - posted      Profile for Teraen   Email Teraen         Edit/Delete Post 
You've all given me much to think about. From the small details of word choice, to the larger picture (it was VERY difficult for me to decide the starting period of this book. I kept having to go back scenes, so my first chapter 1 is now chapter 6...) and seeing what people think of just these few lines makes all the difference. I'm going to rework it and post a new one. I'd appreciate any of you willing to regrade the improvement.

Also, in the introduction to this forum, it says we can submit the first 20 pages? How do we do that?


Posts: 496 | Registered: May 2009  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
InarticulateBabbler
Member
Member # 4849

 - posted      Profile for InarticulateBabbler   Email InarticulateBabbler         Edit/Delete Post 
Not "submit" the first 20 pages; that's the average anyone wants to critique when they say, "I'll read".
Posts: 3687 | Registered: Jan 2007  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
MrsBrown
Member
Member # 5195

 - posted      Profile for MrsBrown   Email MrsBrown         Edit/Delete Post 
If anyone volunteers to read, email them the amount they sign up for. Generally you need to ask for volunteers up front.
("I would read on" is a statement about the interest level of the first 13, not volunteering to read more.)

Unless you want a new thread so people won't compare your versions: please post your revision in this thread, either as a new post or as a "Version 2" in your original thread. (It drives me batty when people overwrite their original submission.)

[This message has been edited by MrsBrown (edited June 02, 2009).]


Posts: 785 | Registered: Mar 2007  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Zero
Member
Member # 3619

 - posted      Profile for Zero           Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
In a province of the Idumean Empire far from Irreantum an old man was lying on top of a hill

My take is that this is too many names too quickly. I think they could be omitted altogether or, at least, simplified to something like "In a province far east of Irreantum" but I just feel like the focus should be the action "the old man sat on the hill" and lobbing a bunch of names kind of disrupts that a bit. It'd be like "In Yugoslavia far away from Moscow an old man is baking a cake." I'm just not sure the geography is needed.

Posts: 2195 | Registered: Aug 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Teraen
Member
Member # 8612

 - posted      Profile for Teraen   Email Teraen         Edit/Delete Post 
Version II:

Here is the same opening to my intro scene with your comments edited in. Essentially, I saw that I was starting too slow. This moves the action forward a little bit, and I can go back and fill some of those details I need in later.


Stargazing required focus, and the old man was quite irritated at the interruption. He was lying on top of a hill, content to study a particular triad of until they dipped below the horizon.
“Scurcifer!” called the voice a second time from the camp down below. In the old tongue it meant Bearer of Filth. It never ceased to amaze the old man that insults were the only remnants of that beautiful language still in use. They called him that because he was given the duty of cleaning up after the horses. "Get off your lazy backside and take these horses to water."
He wondered how they would behave if they knew he could kill them with less than a flick of his wrist.
Perhaps it was time to find out.

[This message has been edited by Teraen (edited June 02, 2009).]


Posts: 496 | Registered: May 2009  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Zero
Member
Member # 3619

 - posted      Profile for Zero           Edit/Delete Post 
Much, much, much better. This brings me in quicker and I actually really, really like it. Very good flow. Though you dropped a word by accident. Either that or added an accidental "of"

"content to study a particular triad of until they dipped "

[This message has been edited by Zero (edited June 02, 2009).]


Posts: 2195 | Registered: Aug 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
MrsBrown
Member
Member # 5195

 - posted      Profile for MrsBrown   Email MrsBrown         Edit/Delete Post 
Oh yes! Much, much better. I love the last two sentences.

It does bother me a bit that we are in his head, but he refers to himself as "the old man". The first use is ok, but not when it is repeated. Doesn't he have a name for himself? Now if he doesn't remember his name, doesn't really care, that might be interesting... Perhaps use his name in place of "He"... Or perhaps use his name in place of the first "old man" and have the boss call him a lazy old man...?

Very tiny nits: "the voice" -- what voice? "a voice" or "the boss' voice"
"horses" repeated twice close together.

[This message has been edited by MrsBrown (edited June 02, 2009).]


Posts: 785 | Registered: Mar 2007  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Teraen
Member
Member # 8612

 - posted      Profile for Teraen   Email Teraen         Edit/Delete Post 
Hmm... I did leave a word out... Darn first drafts...

Also, I have a question regarding this voice. My Old Man is the viewpoint character, but I'm not sure how referring to himself by a name means much. Perhaps it isn't good style, but I want him to remain mysterious for now, as the revelation of who he is will be a large part of the plot. But I also realize I can't keep writing "old man..."

Without revealing his real name, would it fix the viewpoint issue if I referred to him throughout the rest of this scene using the pejorative they called him? ie:

Version III


Stargazing required focus, and the old man was quite irritated at the interruption. He was lying on top of a hill, content to study a particular triad of stars until they dipped below the horizon.
“Scurcifer!” called the crew leader a second time from the camp down below. In the old tongue it meant Bearer of Filth. It never ceased to amaze "Scurcifer" that insults were the only remnants of that beautiful language still in use. They called him that because he was given the duty of cleaning up after the horses. "Get off your lazy backside and get them some water."
Scurcifer wondered how they would behave if they knew he could kill them with less than a flick of his wrist.
Perhaps it was time to find out.

or is it too forced?

[This message has been edited by Teraen (edited June 02, 2009).]


Posts: 496 | Registered: May 2009  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
MrsBrown
Member
Member # 5195

 - posted      Profile for MrsBrown   Email MrsBrown         Edit/Delete Post 
Too forced. And I don't like the withholding. (I don't mind not knowing about his real name, if he can call himself Something.)

Why can't he have multiple names, from different social circles or times of his life? A nickname that he prefers? It's common enough. Perhaps he currently goes by a name related to his position, or his age?

[This message has been edited by MrsBrown (edited June 03, 2009).]


Posts: 785 | Registered: Mar 2007  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Zero
Member
Member # 3619

 - posted      Profile for Zero           Edit/Delete Post 
I think the only reason it might be a problem is that since it's from the old man's point of view, it seems unlikely he'd refer to himself as "old man". But that doesn't mean he can't.
Posts: 2195 | Registered: Aug 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
MrsBrown
Member
Member # 5195

 - posted      Profile for MrsBrown   Email MrsBrown         Edit/Delete Post 
Good point. If it appears as "Old Man" instead of "the old man"
Posts: 785 | Registered: Mar 2007  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Teraen
Member
Member # 8612

 - posted      Profile for Teraen   Email Teraen         Edit/Delete Post 
Could you clarify that last comment? Are you saying that it IS acceptable if I use "old man," and NOT acceptable if I use "Old Man," or vice versa?

This character is not my main viewpoint character for the novel, though he is for this scene. I want to quickly establish that he's a bad guy, but leave him unnamed. Also, there is a key part in this opening that precludes me from using anyone else in the group as the viewpoint character...

...unless I change it... hmm... let me think on that...


Posts: 496 | Registered: May 2009  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Zero
Member
Member # 3619

 - posted      Profile for Zero           Edit/Delete Post 
I think you want us to know he's an old man and that's an easy way of doing it (having him describe himself that way to himself) but I find it's a little awkward because I think he, in his mind, would refer to himself as his name or else in the first person. (But since you're not writing in first person, I'd refer to him as a name rather than old man.)

But that doesn't mean you have to do it that way.


Posts: 2195 | Registered: Aug 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Teraen
Member
Member # 8612

 - posted      Profile for Teraen   Email Teraen         Edit/Delete Post 
So, due to your excellent advice, I redid my introductory scene around these first 13 lines. Is anyone willing to read it? Its about 1600 words (3 pages...)

I'm looking to see if the opening scene stands up to the same litmus test of "would I keep reading?"

Thanks.


Posts: 496 | Registered: May 2009  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
   

   Close Topic   Feature Topic   Move Topic   Delete Topic next oldest topic   next newest topic
 - Printer-friendly view of this topic
Hop To:


Contact Us | Hatrack River Home Page

Copyright © 2008 Hatrack River Enterprises Inc. All rights reserved.
Reproduction in whole or in part without permission is prohibited.


Powered by Infopop Corporation
UBB.classic™ 6.7.2