posted
Knowing now that the 16,000 word story I just sent in for Q02 may come back for 'excessive word count' is very disheartening. I will say at the very least that I don't appreciate the misrepresentation on the WotF website. It doesn't make sense to post one set of rules and then judge by another.
All of these years and they've never thought to clarify the guidelines? It feels deceptive.
And yes, I know it's up to them how to run things but that doesn't change the way it feels.
posted
A simple solution to the word count confusion is to reference what they consider to be an accurate word count. A link to question and answer F.A.Q where it is addressed within their rules page.
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posted
By the standards that have now been established, 12pt Courier font, 1" margins, double-spaced with a maximum of 68 pages came out to approximately 14,500 words by my word processor's count.
And just a note: Even in the FAQ it doesn't mention a specific font. It just says 12pt.
posted
Did you use your program's automatic double-spacing or did you set the line spacing to 24 pt? Microsoft Word's double-spacing is actually a bit more than double spaced. Any more, I go up to Format < Paragraph and set the line spacing to "exactly" 24 instead of relying on Word's built-in spacing.
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posted
Which MSWord are you using? I had a formatting problem with 2007, and David Wolverton (Farland) straightened me out. I have to format 1 inch left, .05 top, .05 bottom and 1.5 on the right hand. (12 pt courier is fine here.) If not, it doesn't come out to the "25 lines at 10 words per line" average.
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Changing my (same) document from 1" on each margin to 1, .5, .5, 1.5 as you've suggested, I get the same figures as before: 81 pages for 12pt, 68 for 11pt. (double-spaced, as in my original post above).
My guess is your change simply keeps the same number of words per page while increasing the number of lines per page and decreasing words per line.
I'd never thought about the 24-pt double spacing thing. I have always just used the automatic double-space option from Word. Interesting that the page count for a given story would drop from 81 pages to 72 just by using that. Whoa. So from a quick look, this could almost make the difference in Arriki's submission. That is, if she used Word's automatic double-spacing like the rest of us. Because her 79 page story would, theoretically, get reduced to about 70 pages, which is within the limit that Kathy mentioned. So, should we all be cursing Microsoft instead? Another question though: if the text is 12 "points" high, how many "points" are placed between lines of text in a single-spaced document? Should the spacing that we are specifying here (24) include those "points" as well as those for the two lines of text? Great "point" though, Kitti.
Suggestions for Ben (and everyone): follow Vonda McIntyre's formatting suggestions: don't use 11 pt. It might come back to bite you if the story that you've won with doesn't fit into the WotF page space and then you have to tell them that you cheated on the length by using an 11 pt font. Icky sticky.
Just format it right, keep it under 17,000 words, and if you're prose isn't very dense (<250 words/pg), realize that you may come up against the 68-page limit as well. I think that's the most that any of us can do. It's too bad that we had to find out like this, I agree. WotF should put something about this in their rules along with the 17,000 word-count limit. Still, even if they don't change anything, I think we can all learn from this event and do our best to make sure that nothing like this ever happens again.
posted
Second round of Honorable Mentions for Q01 2010 are starting to be leaked out, though there's no official announcement at the WotF blog yet. I found the list at this site:
posted
I have a theory as to why WotF doesn't change the guidelines on their website... Because the 17k word limit is printed so many times. I mean, isn't it in all the books currently printed?
I can only surmise it would cause two different versions of guidelines, (although not necessarily conflicting) and would only confuse people more. (and net them some legitimate complaint mail)
27 (28?) years ago they came up with the rules, and can't change them now. All they can do is hope people search around enough on their own to find the 68 page limit.
My wife submits to her publisher electronically and in Times new Roman 12 pt. Thus, I've been happily writing all my stuff that way for years. Imagine my surprise when I come here and poor Arriki has her's sent back because it's too long. Mine's only 60 pages, right? Cntl-A Dropdown-Courier New Bam... 75 pages.
I've done the tricks to shrink it back down a bit, but I'm still over which means I have to hack something out of the story that I feel is just right.
Someone mentioned this topic has been beat to death, but without stickies, the only way to learn this is to read tons of threads and hope one covers it, so you can't really fault Arriki for not knowing. If I hadn't started coming here and reading everything in sight I wouldn't have known either.
TL;DR ?
Kathleen, is there any way to sticky a thread? I know Hatrack isn't affiliated with WotF, but if a sticky is possible, maybe it can be worded like "If you plan to submit, please read this first" Then, at the very least, there's a thread on top where we can find the info.
I'm pretty sure that most of the people in our groups here at Hatrack that have stories going in this quarter (Q02 2010) have either already sent them in or know about the alternate limitation on their stories.
Thus, starting with the Q03 2010 group, I've put a short blurb in the opening paragraph that starts each quarter's group discussion about this issue, and I plan on having that blurb persist for future quarters. Take a look at what I've added and see if you think that'll do. If you have any suggestions for additions/deletions, let me know.
[This message has been edited by WriterDan (edited March 20, 2010).]
quote:Kathleen, is there any way to sticky a thread?
axeminister, so far as I know, there is no way. If there were, I would certainly make use of it. (For one thing, I wouldn't have to go "bump" the posts in the whole area I have at the top of the workshop forum page where I ask people to "Please read here first" and which I am convinced very few people actually read anyway.)
quote:For one thing, I wouldn't have to go "bump" the posts in the whole area I have at the top of the workshop forum page where I ask people to "Please read here first" and which I am convinced very few people actually read anyway.
I read them. But then again, I always read my instruction manuals (including the one that came with my car - boy, did everyone laugh at me when I very carefully followed the instructions to not drive my car faster than 50mph for the first 500 miles!)
posted
So, I got a flat rejection. My story was a redo of an old story I'd written: One Dead Bird. A few of you might recognize the title. I really liked the story. Guess it is, after all, just a revenge story about a kid whose whole village got killed. Old. Boring. Despite the interesting magic system I'd come up with for it. Serves me right for not being original enough, I guess. Take some advice everyone. BE ORIGINAL. That seems to be the single driving factor for stories accepted into this anthology and none else. I should have figured that out a long time ago.
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posted
I remember that story! I thought the original version was great, thought it had a great shot. Shows you what I know.
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Joni posted about it today. Apparently, they're Honorable Mentions that are better than the rest of the HMs, but not a semi-finalist. My guess, is that they're probably semi-finalist worthy stories that Kathy can't critique because she's limited in how many she's allowed to give out. Doesn't look like they'll get anything extra because of it. Maybe a different HM certificate than the rest. Sounds almost like some extra information for those that keep nipping at the heels of the semi-finalist category but not quite making it. Pretty cool idea, if you ask me.
Edit: Kathy verified this on the newsgroup page.
[This message has been edited by WriterDan (edited April 01, 2010).]
posted
Anyone still waiting to receive their script back? I haven't gotten mine back yet. Interested to see if KDW wrote anything on it.
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