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Author Topic: Query Challenge
Osiris
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no problem here, I already posted my 1 alloted revision so it makes no difference to me.
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Meredith
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For what it's worth, LDWriter2, my experience of writing queries so far says the process goes something like this:

  • Write a passable first draft.
  • Get some feedback.
  • Try to incorporate the feedback and end up making the query worse. (But this seems to be a necessary step.)
  • Go back over it one more time, and end up with something that just might work.

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LDWriter2
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I have very little experience with queries, the two I did years ago didn't work. Of course one of those I only sent out twice. But the first one I spent quite a bit of time on, probably redid it more times than the first version of this query. So I can't say what does or doesn't work.

But I found that with writing, at least, what works for other people does not work for me, usually. I don't mind trying what works for others or in this case waiting to see if it does, because I think some day I will have a similar experience as someone(s) else.


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Brendan
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Hey Meredith, that's the process I use to write stories, especially the making it worse. So I'd add in the step after that of "let it sit and sit until some inspiration brings it all together again (sometimes the sitting hasn't finished yet)
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genevive42
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The tenth is great. Thank you.
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Brendan
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I thought that I would do some elevator pitches for the entrants of this challenge. Do any work for you?

Meredith, MAGE STORM
Mage storm infects Rell, sneezes fire.

Shimiqua, FUNNY TRAGIC, CRAZY MANIC
A magic feud for Grandmothers and the boy next door.

MartinV, NEW KIND OF WARFARE
Catfight for gladiators

Osiris, SYMBIOSIS
Alien symbiots want cooperative hosts

Genevive42, SANDFISHING
When government manages pest exterminations

Snapper, POKEMON VENGEANCE: THE CALLING
What if Ketchum wasn't revived?

Owasm, THE RELUCTANT MAGE
Quest to release unwanted magic (edited - I didn't like the first attempt)

Axeminister - THE SUNDAY KILLER
Psychoanalyzing the mind of a detective-killer

MartinV, THE PUREST SWORD
From doctor to warrior to hero to political pawn

LDWriter2, BRIGHT LIGHTS AND CHAOS
Fey prophecy begins career as hero

MattLeo, THE WONDERFUL INSTRUMENT
Jungian superhero and a Casanova in love triangle

Tiergan, THE LOST BOYS
A witch-hunt ever so framed

Brendan, TSUNAMI RIDERS
Planet-hopping surfers face the wrath

RoxyL, MOTHER OF PEARL
Mad hunt for sea-throne heir

Tiergan, KNIGHTS VALOR
Knight's journey to free a girl's parents

[This message has been edited by Brendan (edited January 04, 2011).]


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Meredith
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quote:
Meredith, MAGE STORM
Mage storm infects Rell, sneezes fire.

Not quite accurate, but funny!


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RoxyL
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Awesome, Brendan!
Think I'll just add 'Dear Agent' and enter it as my revised query. Nice and concise.

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LDWriter2
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Not too bad for mine but I think it would sound better as "Half-fey Prophecee becomes hero"
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MartinV
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I think you could be right on my two.
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Osiris
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quote:

Alien symbiots want cooperative hosts

Not too far off from the mark.


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snapper
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My critique is still coming. Honestly, I'm not a slacker.
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Meredith
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Okay.
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snapper
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My apologises, everyone. My plate has been full. I will likely not be participating in the next round. Hope this helps.

First let me thank Brendan for posting this template, made my job easier. Second Meredith deserves credit for a challenge that received a big response. Finally MartinV deserves my appreciation for the link in Open Discussions About Writing

http://www.jmtohline.com/2010/12/biggest-mistakes-writers-make-when.html

My query submission would have looked a lot different if I read it first. Of course my idea is a lot different than everyone else’s, but many of my assumptions were clearly wrong. Such as propping up my credits and mentioning sequels – big mistakes in the link mentioned above. I will say based on some of the critiques I received that I would have done my research on the correct agents to pitch this idea to, and I assumed everyone would have exercised a suspension of personal taste (i.e. you were the agent I was after) for this challenge.

I am going to pretend I know a lot more about book marketing and publishing than I do for my critiques. I am using JM Tohline’s essay and basing most of my opinions on this comment from a literary agent.

quote:
Because agents get so many queries and can only read a few projects out of the hundreds we are forced to choose between every week, it's important that your story distinguish itself from other offerings in the market.

…and using these comment as my criteria on what makes a story distinguishable from the rest…

quote:
….an author needs to grab them with a concise, punchy, hard-boiled query.

quote:
Don't blend in with everyone else; stand out from the pack!

quote:
Any good writer knows the importance of "showing" rather than "telling" in their writing, but how about extending that to a query letter?

Forgive me if I step on your toes.

Meredith, MAGE STORM

Critique:

quote:
Rell lives in a world where magic is dead. All that’s left after the Great Mage War are the dangerous mage storms, composed of the ashes of the dead mages.

May I suggest combining and simplify. You use ‘mage’ 3 times.
Rell lives in a world where mage storms, ashes of the magically gifted left over from the Great Mage War, ravage the land.
quote:
Or so everyone believes until a freak mage storm infects Rell with magic he can’t control. After nearly burning the barn down in a moment of anger, Rell leaves home to seek help before he accidentally hurts someone. He soon learns that magic isn’t as dead as people think and real help isn’t as easy to find as Rell hoped.

I think you can condense this as well. Make it more ‘punchy’.

Rell is caught in one of the storms where he struck with a power he cannot control. He soon discovers magic isn’t dead as he and others believed after he nearly burns down a barn in a moment of anger. He leaves home in search of help but soon learns finding isn’t as easy as he hoped.

Editors Take: The plot, naïve lad who discovers he is much more than an ordinary nobody, is one I have seen before (Star Wars is one that came to mind). I found the brief synopsis concise but the writer’s skill is not standing out. The story does not seem original enough and the author has not made a convincing case for its marketability. I would be hard pressed to want to read the attachment based on this example.

Shimiqua, FUNNY TRAGIC, CRAZY MAGIC

Critique:

quote:
Before, Larissa Alvarez only cared about magic because it could make her look thinner. Then her parents died and left her with only a few runes to make her hair shiny and her waist smaller, and being thin doesn't help you pay bills.
But a late electricity bill is nothing when you are up against a healer who tortures those who receive his healing, a witch in a cheerleader’s body who was sent to spy on her, and scariest of all… a seventeen year old boy with the ability to walk through walls.

These first two paragraphs are great. Gives me a great idea on what the protagonist is like, a good idea what to expect with the tone of the piece, and reasonable expectation of what the plot is about. You are winning me over at this point.

quote:
If she’s going to make sense of all of this… okay, maybe not all of it,(who really understands seventeen year old boys?), then she’s got to try to steal back her mother’s notebook from the strongest witches in the world, the Grandmothers. The only way she can do that is to enlist the help of the new kid, Joe Penrod. But she doesn’t know yet that they are on opposite sides of the war that killed her family, and by falling in love with him, she's heading toward heartbreak. Or, less tragically, treason.

Then you kind of blew it here. This paragraph gets too cute, things like… If she’s going to make sense of all of this… okay, maybe not all of it,(who really understands seventeen year old boys?). and… then she’s got to try to has me concerned if I’ll be seeing passive, amateurish passages like this throughout the novel. And last… and by falling in love with him, she's heading toward heartbreak. Or, less tragically, treason is reading corny and makes me believe I had it wrong what the author was after with the first two paragraphs.

I think the cuteness of the last paragraph is misplaced for a query. It fails on the [I[concise[/I] requirement for queries. Rewrite that paragraph and keep it in line with what you wrote with the first two and I think you’ll have a good shot at getting the agent curious.

Editors Take: This idea points to where the trends are leading to in today’s market. It has that ‘Charmed’ feeling to it, 90210 with a touch of magic. I’m tempted to open the attachment. If the author’s story is as fun and funny as this query hints, I may be able to work with it.

MartinV, NEW KIND OF WARFARE

Critique: This query is concise, punchy, and hard-boiled. The author’s ability to make his brief synopsis sound full of action with characters that are interesting gives me hope that he may have something here. I suggest a few changes in your wording…
Consider cutting, Before he can figure out what is going on,
the more he cannot help himself to admire him.
I’d change ‘himself’ to ‘but’.
yet unlike every other ‘kitty’ he does not speak.
Consider cutting ‘he’ and inserting a comma in its place.
Owyn smells a mystery and like a bloodhound he cannot let it go until he has figured out the truth.
‘like a blood hound’ made me think Owyn was part Beast Folk for a moment, you might want to change that. Consider changing ‘he has figured out the truth’ to ‘he has found the truth’. ‘figured out’ sounds off.
Maybe I’m wrong but this query felt if it was missing a few commas.

Editors Take: Promising but I’m unsure if it’s enough. The term ‘Beast Folk’ gives me pause, it sounds too much like a knock off idea, whether that is accurate or not. I’m envisioning a cool book cover (which is a plus) but I’m just not sure if this idea will stand out enough to give it a chance. I’m going to think about it as I read through this big pile. If it still sticks with me I just might give your attachment a try.

Osiris, SYMBIOSIS

Critique: he’d decided who would live or die from among the war wounded
Consider changing ‘from the war wounded’ to ‘on the battlefield’.

a decision to eclipse all those before is thrust upon him.

Not a fan of this line. I had to read it twice. It felt like false excitement, as if a ‘Duh, duh, DUH!’ sound effect would be placed here.

The rewrite is heads and tails better than your first try. I would consider cutting back that first paragraph, it seemed like unnecessary info for a query.

Editors Take: Not sure if would pursue further than this letter. The author is trying to sell it too hard. I am having a hard time determining if this is man vs secret alien body-snatcher epic or a buddy story involving a guy and his intelligent tapeworm.

Genevive42, SANDFISHING

Critique: Kaya wants to get off-planet to start a new life somewhere they've never heard of Orkers
Change ‘somewhere’ to where.
and any money her family had long gone
had is long gone (you could instead cut this half of the sentence)
Then MightyCorp buys up all of the independent recycling centers and prices plummet.
You could cut this and the paragraph before this. The story is about sandfishing so the first paragraph is just backstory. IMO, it’s not needed for this query.

Editors Take: Not sure if there is enough here to pique my interest. The author hinted at a larger story but left no clue on what it may be. As it is, a trapping contest, even if it involves alien vermin, leaves me doubting whether a 90,000 word story will be compelling enough to attract readers.

Owasm, THE RELUCTANT MAGE

Critique: The major problem for me on this is clarity. Are wizards different from mages? The wording of the piece alludes that woman are not bright enough to perform magic. Whether that is your intention or not, it makes the premise sound sexist to me. Not very marketable in today’s environment.
Editors Take: Or may or may not have something interesting here. The way you worded your synopsis leaves me concerned. I suggest a rewrite. As it is, it is not drawing me in.

Axeminister: SUNDAY KILLER

Critique: Robert Argyle's long-dead childhood friend, after a lifetime of assistance and companionship, suddenly falls silent.
This threw me for a loop. A long-dead friend has been his assistant and companion? Is he a ghost? If so you better say so. If not you better fix it. The last sentence of your synopsis is missing a question mark.

Editors Take: I’m passing because I have no idea what Argyle’s dead friend is. Is this a ghost story, a man with multiple personality’s, or flashback? The fact I don’t know leaves me wondering if I’ll run into similar problems reading the novel. Clarify and send back.

MartinV, THE PUREST SWORD

Critique: The period of the first sentence should be a comma.
A career of a surgeon
This sounds like a medieval setting. Perhaps ‘healer’ would be better.
protecting people from the sea marauders
protecting his people?

Editors Take: Let me get this straight. Enniorhon switches professions for…what? Revenge? Career opportunities? Even in the iron age, a doctor would be more valuable than a mercenary. Killers are common, healers are rare. I might, just might, peek at your attachment. More out of curiosity of your premise than anything else. I am doubting the marketability of your piece but who knows? Maybe the trends of historical fiction will swing this way.

LDWriter2, BRIGHT LIGHTS AND CHAOS

Critique: , begins a romance with a human, finds new friends
Change this to …‘romance, friends’…
Editors Take: It is your dumb luck to find the one agent who isn’t sure what a ‘Fey’ is. Assuming that I do, your pitch isn’t exciting me BUT it is clear and I have a solid idea what your novel is about. For that reason I will open your attachment, but if your writing is anything like your pitch, I’m going to send you a ‘thanks but no’ email really quick. So I guess you did your job.

MattLeo, THE WONDERFUL INSTRUMENT

Critique: The query is clean but bland. The pitch sounds like a Frankenstein meets 90210 comparison. Much was made about Maximilian when he sounds like the least interesting of the bunch.

Editors Take: The story sounds more like a romance with a sci-fi angle. The sci-fi doesn’t sound appealing enough to snag readers of that genre but its prominent enough to turn away romance lovers. There isn’t enough conflict to entice me. Sorry, I’m passing.

Tiergan, THE LOST BOYS

Critique: at his grand parents’ house, and saw Chrissie
Cut that comma
Throw in the twin ponds with the waterfall switching between them as the tide poured in and pulled out
clunky
Throw in twin ponds with a waterfall that switches as the tide pours in and out
witch’s clutches hard
is harder…
A lot of stuff needs improvement. I may quit halfway through this pitch because of it.
Editors Take: I don’t know. Sounds too familiar. I can sense some excitement but I would likely pass because there lacks originality and because I have fifty more pitches to get through.

Brendan, TSUNAMI RIDERS

Critique: The opening of your pitch sounds cocky. Even if I am looking for that future ‘surfer saves the world’ piece, I might not want to admit it to you after that first paragraph.
The ‘wrath’ boggles me. It’s a computer virus infecting his protective suit? Why not get a new one? Hopefully the suit has a warranty.

Editor’s Take: Maybe if this author sold other plausible-futuristic fiction to prove he can write semi-hard science fiction material (and reference where I can find said works), I might be willing to open his attachment, if I liked his other stuff that is. For a first time publication, I am doubting the marketability, and plausibility, of this story.

RoxyL, MOTHER OF PEARL

Critique: It’s a secret everyone in Middle Sea knows: the Queen is entirely insane.
I would cut ‘entirely’ from the sentence but more importantly could you give an example or two of her insanity? It may require another sentence but I believe it could help your pitch. A very good reason to ‘show’ rather than ‘tell’.
Dyln knows he will not be the only one who finds the future queen
Did you mean ‘looking for the future queen’?
he just has to be the first
perhaps, ‘he has to be the first to find her’.
yet she dreams nightly, not of dunes and sand, but of endless waves and a royal father she has never known.
I’d cut, ‘not of dunes and sand, but…’
Consider rearranging the information in your pitch. I would start by introducing Pearl. Describing how she dreams of endless waves and of a royal father when she has lived a life as a peasant. Then tell of the other players and the conspiracies of trying to get her.

Editors Take: I like this idea. I think the title is clever too. Not sure if it excites me enough to cut a contract but I would likely peek at your attachment.

Tiergan, KNIGHTS VALOR

Critique: I have nothing to add

Editors Take: I will do the best I can with this but it won’t be easy because I have already read an earlier draft of this novel. Pretending I haven’t read it, I’m finding it intriguing and worth looking.

Here are two quotes from Ms. Tohline’s essay that speaks volumes…

quote:
Here are Daniel Lazar's thoughts on querying: I think the best query letters are specific and evocative – not loaded down with too much boring detail, but just enough detail (little touches of description or turns of phrase) that show the letter is crafted by a real writer.

This one says it all.

quote:
An agent's first peek at the quality of the writing comes from the query letter... A query letter should be a tease – a taste for more to come.

There is a difference between pitching a novel to an agent than a publisher. Agents are people you are selling your novel and you, the author, to them. Convince an agent that you can write a novel that will sell and you’ll likely not need to make a pitch like this again. That’s why, I believe, you should put more than a this is what my novel is about. You have previous sales? Mention them. Proving you could sell your own stuff without help can only be a plus. In the essay, blogs and how they should be used is mentioned. That may be a great place to highlight your accomplishments and provide a small glimpse of your writing. Anything that will help reinforce your skill as a writer (SFWA membership, contest placements, critique groups – like hatrack) should not be left out. They will show your commitment to improvement and also show how serious you are.

[This message has been edited by snapper (edited January 09, 2011).]


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Meredith
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Thank you, Snapper.

I appreciate your comments.

[This message has been edited by Meredith (edited January 09, 2011).]


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snapper
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My pleasure, Meridith, Thanks for running this challenge. I learned much.
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MartinV
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So did I.

[This message has been edited by MartinV (edited January 09, 2011).]


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genevive42
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I know I'm the one that asked for the extra time, and I still wasn't able to make. So I will than you for the consideration and apologize for my absence.

Many of the comments on my query had to do with it being too vague. Since I'm only on Chapter 6, that's cetainly a valid point. I want to thank everyone for their comments. They will be very helpful when I finish this thing.

And Meredith, thank you very much for running this challenge. It has been a great learning experience. You have done us all a significant service. Well done.


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Tiergan
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Saw this somewhere and thought it should be listed and might be a help for this, maybe too late for the challenge but interesting none the less.

3 main questions of a query

1. What does your MC / protagonist want?
2. What do they have to do to get it? Think what stands in their way.
3. What happens if they fail? The consequences.


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Meredith
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Well, only 60% of us made the deadline.

Should we extend it again?

Do those who didn't get a revision done just want to copy their original query over for voting and leave it at that?

There was never a requirement to revise, only an opportunity to do so.


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Tiergan
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Well if I am honest, the voting means little to me. The real prize was/is having all the people read the query and offer suggestions. But I am for anything that has a chance of having people look at the revised and see if they made any differences.
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genevive42
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I agree that the voting isn't the reason I did this. Maybe it's turned out to be more of a workshop than a challenge. But that's okay. I'm sure we've all learned a great deal.

If you extended the date I still don't know if I would make it or not. I would try, but I couldn't promise. I will go with whatever the group wants.


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axeminister
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I have to agree with Tiergan.
The motivation behind the voting was to see if the new query was an improvement. There were lots of suggestions, some conflicting, the question is... did I revise and improve?

If we decide not to vote, maybe we can use the new thread as a 2nd workshop and just talk amongst ourselves about our revisions. Opinions more than new crits...

up 2 u

Axe


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Meredith
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Well, to me, the main point of this is a learning experience. So, if you'd rather workshop than vote, that's absolutely fine with me.

It very well may be more valuable in the long run. And it's for sure that queries aren't going to be perfected in two passes.


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Meredith
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Hey, guys. This challenge or workshop or whatever you want it to be works!

I just sent a partial to my first choice agent. Second query I sent out.

Same luck to all the rest of you.


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MartinV
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Good for you, Meredith. I hope the query takes effect.
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snapper
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I owe all of you, and especially Meredith a debt of gratitude. Let me explain.

Although I have no novel to pitch, I do have a novella-sized story that has been proven difficult to get someone to look at. A new semi-pro listed magazine has a call for serials but ask you send a query first. Thanks to what I learned here, I wrote a concise pitch and got a response and request to send the entire manuscript immediately. Not a sale but at least I know my sci-fi/thriller/humor story will get read and considered.

So, if reading requests were the goal for this challenge, you can consider this exercise a success!


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Meredith
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Great news!

Here's to hoping we get a lot more of the same from this challenge/workshop.


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axeminister
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That is great to hear Snapps.

The better we are at writing queries, the more likely the foot we put forward will be our best one.

Axe


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Tiergan
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Great to hear Snapper!
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