So, I'm trying to decide whether I want to take my intended's last name. It's a big change (as if marriage isn't alreay a big change). I LIKE my name. I also do want to take his. But I'm also attached to my name.
The conflict!
I brought it up to my shrink, and he just laughed at me.
I've talked to a few folks on AIM. What do folks have to say to weigh in on this decision? (Yes, I've spoken to Nathan about it already).
Posted by breyerchic04 (Member # 6423) on :
have you thought hyphenate?
Posted by Shan (Member # 4550) on :
mack - there's no easy answer here - except maybe hyphenation . . .
How cramped do you want your wrist?
Posted by Allegra (Member # 6773) on :
I think it depends on what the change would be and if you want kids. If his last name sounds horrible with yours I wouldn't take it. If you want kids it is easier to have a family name then have your husbands last name be one thing and yours' another and your kids something else.
Posted by Papa Moose (Member # 1992) on :
mackillian_Smith?
Posted by Allegra (Member # 6773) on :
Maybe this is just me but for me it also depends on my level of education. If I end up getting my doctorate, I would not want to change names. Maybe that is weird but I just wouldn't.
Posted by Verily the Younger (Member # 6705) on :
My opinion? It's a custom that doesn't harm anybody, and there's no reason to do away with it. If a feminist is a person who believes that women are people, equal to men, then I am a feminist. But I completely fail to see how women are harmed by taking their husband's name.
(Someone's going to come along now and ask me if I plan on taking my wife's name when I get married, if it's so "harmless". To which I'll answer, "If that were the custom in our society, then absolutely I would. But it isn't.")
I don't see any reason why a woman couldn't keep her maiden name as an additional middle name. But simply refusing to take on her husband's name at all strikes me as being revolutionary purely for the sake of being revolutionary.
And combining the names with a hyphen is just annoying.
Posted by MyrddinFyre (Member # 2576) on :
If I were you I'd change it but keep your current name for a pen name But that's me. And LOL@pop.
Posted by mackillian (Member # 586) on :
*stabs pop*
The switch would be from Taylor to Novak (my first name being Jamie).
Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
I wanted Jenni to change her name, and she agreed with me. I don't see it so much as losing your own name as gaining another. You would always be a Taylor, as Jenni is always a Ross, but now....she is a Brill as well.
It adds to who you are, as marriage itself does.
Kwea
[ January 03, 2005, 11:21 PM: Message edited by: Kwea ]
Posted by quidscribis (Member # 5124) on :
Well, here's my take on things.
I legally changed my name about 8 years ago. 6 years ago? Something like that. I hated my middle name and last name, so ditched them, but kept the first name - it suited me. I picked names I loved. Oh, there were other issues there as well - like a psychopathic stalker.
So when I got married a whole year and a half ago, I didn't want to give up my last name. But then, I live in a whole other country now, and have no idea what the process is here for changing names - ie, adding his at the very end. So not knowing the process here complicates things.
Anyway. I wanted to keep my last name for writing purposes, so professionally, I use my last name pre-marriage. At church and socially and what-not, I use his last name. But I also frequently use both, especially when I'm emailing someone who will know me both professionally and personally.
But evidently, I like to complicate matters. So, uh, I dunno if this helps at all. Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
There is only one way to solve this.
You will need a good pen and lots of paper.
In flowery script (little doodles of houses and flowers on the borders of each page are recommended but not required), write each possible variant at least a dozen times. (Dreamy look during this process is optional.)
When you're done, you'll know. Posted by mackillian (Member # 586) on :
Actually, the N is easier to scribble than the T.
Not that I've practiced.
*looks about innocently*
Posted by Shan (Member # 4550) on :
That's great!
When I got married, I kept my own last name, mack -
and actually, my intended did not like that - his reasons were all for ease of the family being identified as the family - to which I finally suggested if that were truly the case and so important to him, then I certainly was willing to share MY last name -
which also didn't suit . . .
so really, in his case it was all about the power trip - which happened a lot in our brief marriage . . .
*sigh*
Posted by mackillian (Member # 586) on :
Yeah, it isn't like that with Nathan. Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
It isn't always about a power trip thoguh....I am the last Brill, and that means a lot to me. Not more than the love I feel for Jenni, but a lot.
I would have married her if she wanted to keep her madien name....but I woyuld have been very disapointed with it, and I am glad we saw eye to eye on this.
It is a sign of comittment, on both sides....that a man would offer to share his name, and a woman would accept it.
I don't see anything wrong with keeping the maiden name somewhere though....you could still be Jamie Taylor Novack.... Posted by Allegra (Member # 6773) on :
If you took Nathan's name you would never hear anything about how your name is so similar to James Taylor.
Posted by Ela (Member # 1365) on :
I kept my name when I got married.
My husband and I discussed it and decided that our two names hyphenated together did not roll off the tongue too easily. He didn't feel strongly about wanting me to take his name, and I wanted to keep my own surname, so that's what we agreed upon.
It has worked fine for us. Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
Novlor?
Tayvak?
I had friends that were planning on blending their last names, Sanders and Allen, into Salender, but they chickened out at tha last minute and went with the more traditional approach.
Posted by Teshi (Member # 5024) on :
Well if you want a flippant and completely sincere opinion, I think Jamie Novak has a very good ring to it, both visually and verbally. It's a very strong and striking name.
Jamie Taylor is more mundane, and less striking. It's somewhat softer and flowy-er.
I plan to change my last name if I like the person I marry's name more than my own. If not, then I'm sticking with what I've got .
EDIT: But Salender is so very cool.
It would be awful trying to trace ancestors a couple of generations down the line though.
[ January 03, 2005, 11:39 PM: Message edited by: Teshi ]
Posted by Verily the Younger (Member # 6705) on :
quote:his reasons were all for ease of the family being identified as the family - to which I finally suggested if that were truly the case and so important to him, then I certainly was willing to share MY last name -
Like I said.
I do agree that it's better if everyone in the same immediate family has the same family name. That's why it's called a "family" name. For ease of identification and all. It's a product of our culture's history that it happens to be the husband whose name is kept.
I can't speak for this particular man. He may well have been the power-tripping sort; never having met him, I couldn't say. But I can assure all the ladies here, purely by speaking for myself, that not all men who oppose the decay of this custom do so because it's a power trip.
Posted by Ela (Member # 1365) on :
No one has any problem identifying us as a family. Posted by Teshi (Member # 5024) on :
I'm torn on the traditionalness of the issue. It is nice to have everyone with the same name in a family. Then you can sum them up with a simple "The Joneses" for example.
However, no one outside of my immediate family except for my Grandfather and Grandmother who are divorced anyway have the same name as me. The rest (there are very few of us) have different surnames. So there was never a big happy bumbling family group to begin with.
Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
quote:EDIT: But Salender is so very cool.
Isn't it Teshi? I was really hoping that they'd actually do it. I love the sound of it, and I like the idea of forging a new name together.
Posted by quidscribis (Member # 5124) on :
My husband didn't/doesn't care. It's completely unimportant to him.
BUT there's the culture behind this. He has the same last name as his father. But his father's father has a completely different last name, as does the father before that, and so on, and so on. That was a part of HIS culture. And this is fairly common here. And all told, he has 6 names, and I had 4 but now have 5.
I've also been told - and I could be wrong, but it was by someone who lived there - that in Quebec, a woman cannot legally take on her husband's name until after they've been married for a year. Apparently, it has to do with divorce being too common and the expense of all the paperwork. Makes sense to me.
I also agree with earlier comments about Jamie Novak having more impact as a name than Jamie Taylor.
The bottom line, though, is what you want, and what you and your husband can live with. No one else's opinion means squat.
Posted by MyrddinFyre (Member # 2576) on :
Well our neighbors who are married but have two different names we'll still call "the Joneses". As long as one of them has the name we know who it is.
edited to add: two posts snuck in there while i was writing that!
[ January 03, 2005, 11:53 PM: Message edited by: MyrddinFyre ]
Posted by Icarus (Member # 3162) on :
quote: If you already have a middle name, there's no harm in another. You'd be in company with people like J.R.R. Tolkien and C.P.E. Bach, and that can't be bad.
I have four names. People with four names are cool.
Posted by Teshi (Member # 5024) on :
Darn right .
Posted by Ela (Member # 1365) on :
Yeah, people do that Joneses bit to us, too, and it's fine. Or sometimes, it's (as an example) the Smith- Joneses, even though we didn't do the hyphenated thing.
Edited: two posts snuck in while I was responding, also
[ January 04, 2005, 12:02 AM: Message edited by: Ela ]
Posted by Synesthesia (Member # 4774) on :
*wants four names* Make him take your name...
Posted by ElJay (Member # 6358) on :
When I was engaged, I fully intended to just add his name on at the end and use two middle initials. I would have gone from Liza J. Wiliams on all official paperwork to Liza J. W. A--------. It worked for me.
Plus, after a lifetime of being called last alphabetically, I was looking forward to moving to the front of the line. Not like that happens so often once you're out of school.
Since you have published under your maiden name, mack, I can totally see continuing to use it professionally and using his socially and legally, so the entire family has the same last name. I agree that that is nice if you're going to have kids, although certainly not necessary.
Posted by sarcasticmuppet (Member # 5035) on :
My suggestion is that you have the same last name as the children you might have together. Posted by blacwolve (Member # 2972) on :
I've never really cared that much. I'm not very attached to my name and I assume I'll take my husbands name. In my family, though, we're still identified as family even though my aunt has a different last name. I don't know how to say this without telling my last name which I'm not comfortable saying. Say my name was Smith. When we say things like, "It's a Smith thing." or, "All the Smith's are like that." or "You're being such a Smith right now." it applies to my aunt as much as it doesn't apply to my mom or my aunt that married into the family.
That was really rambling and I'm not sure it made any sense, so I hope someone gets something out of it.
Posted by fiazko (Member # 5812) on :
Although I am the last in a line, I am all about giving up my name, preferably for one beginning with a "B". Then my initials would be KGB, and that would just be cool.
Posted by Icarus (Member # 3162) on :
I was the last in my line. Now I have daughters. >_<
Posted by mackillian (Member # 586) on :
One of my uncles has a family name: Joseph Taylor, no middle name. It's been going on since my great great grandfather emigrated from Scotland. So my uncle Joe was the only one of my dad's four siblings to have boys.
My dad and his two other brothers each had two girls.
Just odd. Posted by Frisco (Member # 3765) on :
quote:I was the last in my line. Now I have daughters. >_<
Maybe if you hid the Sims and the Xena DVDs....
[ January 04, 2005, 12:41 AM: Message edited by: Frisco ]
Posted by LadyDove (Member # 3000) on :
Taylor and Novak are both nice names and easy to spell. An important consideration from someone who married into a long, unpronounceable Polish name.
I legally took the long last name so that I could share the same last name with the kids, but I use my maiden name for business and to make dinner reservations.
I have a friend who was given his mother's maiden name as his middle name. I thought doing that was a cool tribute to his mom's family.
Posted by Icarus (Member # 3162) on :
In latino culture, you take your mother's last name as your second last name. So while I'm the fourth generation with the same first three names, I'm unique because of my fourth one.
-o-
Frisco: EDIT: I'm sure there's a funny bit of innuendo in there, but I'm not quite getting it . . .
[ January 04, 2005, 12:56 AM: Message edited by: Icarus ]
Posted by Hobbes (Member # 433) on :
Jamie Novak sounds great, like your a rogue assassin who used to work for the US government but you've ended that association after a shady deal in Argentina that didn't quite come off right and money is your one true love until you meet the man of your dreams and give up your old and lawless ways so you can focus on being a good wife to him. Possibly there's a sequel in which your old crowd finds you and wants to get back at you for the Slovakian hit that you carried off without a hitch except for the part where you executed the ambassador from Yugoslavia instead of the minority party candidate and now you have to try to fight off this less than reputable (and less than skilled, though they more than make up for it in numbers) crowd while at the same time trying to keep the secret from your new husband who still thinks you just served drinks in the airport bar he went to when the business trip to Chicago got delayed due to inclement weather in, of all places, Miami.
Seriously though, I think Jamie Novak sounds great, and that's my input.
Hobbes Posted by CaySedai (Member # 6459) on :
I was a secretary for a woman named Christine - who went by Chris. She got engaged to a guy named Christian - who went by Chris. He insisted that she use his last name. In her case, I think it might have made more sense to keep her maiden name, at least professionally, but since I wasn't part of the relationship I stayed out of it. I just thought it was funny and imagined the possibilities for mistaken identity.
If, when I got married, I had a professional life, I might have kept the maiden name for work purposes but used my husband's name for personal and church purposes.
Considering the shaky condition of my marriage, I've thought about the possibility of changing back to my maiden name if we ever got divorced and decided that I wouldn't do that. I would keep my married name, which I've had more than half my life, and still have the same last name as my kids.
Posted by BelladonnaOrchid (Member # 188) on :
As someone recently married, I actually enjoyed changing my last name. I got to go down to the Social Security office and laugh at all the people who looked like they were on drugs...ah, the good times.
Really, as much trouble as I gave my new husband about my new name being comprised of two mis-spelled spanish names, it was kind of fun partaking of this marriage custom.
I say go for it.
[ January 04, 2005, 02:39 AM: Message edited by: BelladonnaOrchid ]
Posted by Tatiana (Member # 6776) on :
The idea of changing a name you've had all your life used to seem very strange to me. I couldn't believe people would actually do that. But then I started thinking of myself as Tatiana. <laughs>
So yeah I think you both should legally change your names to your screennames. "Do you, mackillian, take this man, T_Smith...?" Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
Woluld that make her a MacSmith?
[ January 04, 2005, 02:53 AM: Message edited by: Kwea ]
Posted by Scythrop (Member # 5731) on :
(Imogen here)
I'm keeping my name for two reasons - the first is I like the sound of it better. Imogen Eaton just sounds funny to me.
The second is I've done a lot as Imogen Saunders - finished one degree, almost finished another, wrote (and hopefully published) my dissertation, won quite a few academic prizes - that I'm very proud of. A lot of which is related to my career. So I want to keep that association.
(As an aside - Tony and I have talked about what he would do if the custom were different. He would keep his name for the exact reason above - he has done a lot as Anthony Eaton, including his books, and would want to continue with that name.)
My Mum kept her name also. That may be influencing me.
But really, the biggest thing for me is how it sounds. Jamie Novak sounds good. Imogen Eaton does not. Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
Off subject, but I have to say that Imogen is one of the coolest first names I've ever heard. If I ever have a daughter, Imogen is high on the list of names I'll be putting forth.
Posted by MaydayDesiax (Member # 5012) on :
I've already decided to take Bernard's last name when I get married--it'll also be a radical differenece between "Wallace" and "Yu" (guess which one's mine and which one's his ). And yes, I have practiced making "Yu" twice as long so my first name won't waaaaaaay overbalance the last one. I like both names, anyway: Maribeth Wallace or Maribeth Yu (although this one is usually followed by an explicative).
I also have a friend who got married last year and didn't take her husband's (or her daughter's) last name. Of course, the real reason she didn't take it was because she didn't even want to get married in the first place, but I don't think that's the issue here.
Edit to Add: I saw "Imogetten Eaton" instead of "Imogen". Woah.
[ January 04, 2005, 08:34 AM: Message edited by: MaydayDesiax ]
Posted by Farmgirl (Member # 5567) on :
It's a personal decision Jamie, but I think you should go with whatever makes you comfortable, and that Nate is okay with.
When I got married, I kept my maiden name. My maiden name is unusual (anyone else you hear with this last name is related to me in some way) and my father had all girls. I was very proud of my father and wished to keep his name.
My husband had no problem with this because he hated his biological father (whose name he carries) and didn't seen any reason for me to change from my maiden name to the more common and mundane "Sims" which was his last name.
We agreed together, then, to give my oldest son my last name (my maiden name) as his last name, to carry on my family name. My other two kids have hypenated last names, but choose to just use the "Sims" (the second part of the hypenation) most of the time because it is easier for them. It has not been a problem at all for my kids to have different last names. This is so very common in this society that it isn't even given a second glance.
My two cents, Farmgirl
p.s. - I want to add -- I think it was very wrong of your shrink to laugh at you. For some people, our name is a very important part of our identity and autonomy.
[ January 04, 2005, 08:48 AM: Message edited by: Farmgirl ]
Posted by punwit (Member # 6388) on :
My wife went through the same mental debate before we were married. I told her it was up to her and that I was fine with whatever path she chose. She ended up changing her middle name to Johnson (her maiden name).
Posted by Anna (Member # 2582) on :
When I was young, innocent and feminist, I always figured I would keep my maiden name if I ever got married. Why would I take the man's name, and yadda yadda yadda. But when I met Vinnie I started to think a lot about it, and it changed my mind. I want to have the same name as my family (meaning my husband and children) AND I find it normal that this name is my husband's name, because when we're not in adoption cases, the woman bears the child for nine month, which is a gift, and the father gives his name.
Posted by Zeugma (Member # 6636) on :
Novak is a cool last name! For some reason, I thought his last name was Smith. Then you'd both want to change your names!
I'm a pretty independent anti-stereotype kind of gal... the only registry gift I really wanted was a DeWalt cordless drill/driver, and though I spent weeks designing, building, and painting our Chuppah (including a quick 3D previs), I put the dress off to the very last minute and dreaded the shopping experience. Get the picture?
But, I did decide to take Mark's last name, for a simple reason: my maiden name comes from a father I haven't seen since I was 7 years old, and doesn't mean much to me. Mark's name means a whole lot to him, and he's the last of his line to carry it on (unless his sister keeps hers!). So the choice was pretty easy for me. Though my name is even more bizarre now, half looks masculine Indian or African, half looks Russian and/or Jewish. And I'm about as white-bread as they come! Posted by Farmgirl (Member # 5567) on :
That's sweet and I can see that perspective, Anna.
But just wanted to point out -- legally you can give a child ANY name you choose -- it doesn't have to be the father's last name, or even your last name. This again is just a matter of societal custom, rather than law.
Farmgirl
Posted by quidscribis (Member # 5124) on :
Farmgirl - I had never considered that as a possibility. How cool! I doubt we'll do that - I have no problem with the kidlets getting his name - but it's an interesting option nevertheless!
Edit: I posted this before I read the second page. Now I'll add the next comment. Of COURSE the child can have any last name, regardless of either parent. Options galore!
[ January 04, 2005, 09:37 AM: Message edited by: quidscribis ]
Posted by Anna (Member # 2582) on :
What I meant is that in a sense, we women mark our children by bearing them, and men by giving them their name. Two very important things. By the way, I may have though differently if for some reason I disliked Vinnie's last name, but I like it, it sounds like the country he is from (South West of France).
[ January 04, 2005, 09:43 AM: Message edited by: Anna ]
Posted by BannaOj (Member # 3206) on :
I actually don't have huge problems from the philisophical side of changing one's last name. However I happen to be with someone who has close to the worst last name possible to go with my own, even though I *don't* like my last name.
Anna Jo Isbell vs Anna Jo Jones, uh yeah, I don't want to be "Jo-Jo". I think maybe Anna Jo Isbell-Jones would be the way to go, should we ever up and get married. Though I'm lazy and even if we should get married I don't know that I want to go through the paperwork hassle of changing it.
AJ
Posted by sarahdipity (Member # 3254) on :
I think I would keep my own last name for at least professional purposes. But I'd be willing to change my last name for all other purposes. Although I have to say that my name is super cool and I'd be a little bored if someone expected me to change my last name to Smith or something after all, my first name is boring enough!
Posted by dabbler (Member # 6443) on :
My sister has no plans to take her fiance's last name (Peloso) because she really doesn't like the name.
She's not happy that people are going to start calling her Mrs. Peloso.
Posted by mr_porteiro_head (Member # 4644) on :
I personally think Jamie Novak sounds awesome.
quote: I have four names. People with four names are cool.
I am jealous.
quote: Make him take your name...
That is just as acceptable as him "making" her take his name.
I felt much like Verily. It would have saddened me if Mary had had problems with taking my name. I personally wanted her to keep her maiden name as a middle name, but she didn't want to.
quote: In my family, though, we're still identified as family even though my aunt has a different last name. I don't know how to say this without telling my last name which I'm not comfortable saying.
We do that in my family too. We refer to each other as Smiths [not real name], even though that was my *grandmother's* maiden name, and she isn't eve alive anymore. We don't always do that -- only when we are talking about our Smithness.
quote: I have a friend who was given his mother's maiden name as his middle name. I thought doing that was a cool tribute to his mom's family.
My father's family did that -- him and all of his brothers have the middle name [Smith]. My grandmother was shocked and apalled when they didn't give me my mom's maiden name. Instead they gave me Porter as a middle name.
quote: The idea of changing a name you've had all your life used to seem very strange to me.
I was [Charles] (not real name) for 18 years until I changed my name to Porter. Not legally -- it was already my middle name. But I did change the name I went by.
quote: But just wanted to point out -- legally you can give a child ANY name you choose -- it doesn't have to be the father's last name, or even your last name. This again is just a matter of societal custom, rather than law.
In some countries, it is a law. IIRC, there is a list of acceptable names that you can name a child in Germany. If the name isn't on the list, you can't name a child that. This was an issue a few years ago with an American living over there when she gave birth.
Also, I think you have to give the child a Japanese last name in Japan. I know that my brother had to take his wife's last name in order to be married in Japan. So in Japan they legally have her last name, while in America they legally have his. That seems fair.
[ January 04, 2005, 11:51 AM: Message edited by: mr_porteiro_head ]
Posted by ludosti (Member # 1772) on :
I don't remember ever really discussing the whole issue before getting married. I chose to take my husband's last name and make my maiden name my middle name (dropping my previous middle name, to which I didn't have any attachment). As I saw it, I was the same person I had been before (Amanda [maiden name]) and in marrying I was adding a whole new dimension to myself - him, so it seemed natural to me to be Amanda [maiden name] [husband's name].
I think hyphenated names are kinda silly, because of their length and they somehow strike me as being wishywashy (I couldn't decide what my name should be so I did both to cover all my bases), but that is definitely just my opinion.
I think you you should do what you and Nate want to do. Posted by Annie (Member # 295) on :
A weird sort of Mormon custom (weird in that it only happens sometimes, with some Mormons) is to give your sons the mother's maiden name for a middle name and to give the daughters no middle name - the maiden name becomes their middle name when they get married. A lot of historical figures in the church have names like this, and it has always stricken me as rather proto-feminist.
I, however, like the concept of giving a child a middle name. And not just a one-syllable name to make the rhythm nice like Lynn or Anne or Rae. I have always enjoyed the fact that in my family, we all have rather substantial middle names that have as much thought put into them as the first names. My Mom made sure that each name had a meaning that she agreed with and thus my youngest brother, whose names Hagan and Lucas mean "chosen son" and "light," respecitvely, is a "chosen son of light."
I think our individual names give us more identity than our last name, though our last name is rather unifying and my mom chose to keep it even after her divorce. I, however, feel no attachment to the name, which I see as a remnant of my white trash heritage. I had an uncle once tell my brother: "You're a Majors, and that means you don't never have to marry no ugly woman."
I will gladly take my husband's name when we get married, but as my pen name I want to use my first and middle name, as a way of acknowledging that author-me is uniquely me, married or not. I'd also like to acknowledge my mom's side of the family and wish I could do so in the naming of my kids, but there's no way I'm saddling any of them with any sort of adaptation of "Fleischer."
Posted by mr_porteiro_head (Member # 4644) on :
None of my aunts on either side had middle names until they got married.
When we had our first daughter, I assumed that we would do the same, and not give her a middle name. Mary let me know that this was unacceptable. I had never really thought about it, and I know that I've been happy to have a middle name, so we have given our daughters middle names and broken that tradition.
Nobody has even mentioned it, so either nobody cared, or they are all too polite.
Posted by mackillian (Member # 586) on :
Decided that I'll do the last name to middle name change. My current middle name--Lynn--I have no real attachment to. It's my last name, Taylor, that I do. So Jamie Taylor Novak should work out well.
But what paperwork will I have to do? O_O
Posted by dread pirate romany (Member # 6869) on :
Only you and Nate can decide- FWIW, I ahve a hyphenated name, not my maiden name ( I was really ready to shuck that) but my gram's maiden name hyphenated to my husbands name. It bothered me that everyone said "Soon there'll be no more Carodiskeys" so I decided to become one.
Good luck on a decision.
Posted by mr_porteiro_head (Member # 4644) on :
I'm glad you came to a decision.
I'm also glad you posted this thread, because I forgot to ask you the other day whose name you were going to use.
[ January 04, 2005, 12:11 PM: Message edited by: mr_porteiro_head ]
Posted by mackillian (Member # 586) on :
Name I'm going to USE? Yours of course. Posted by mr_porteiro_head (Member # 4644) on :
Posted by mr_porteiro_head (Member # 4644) on :
"...for as long as you both shall live?"
"mr_porteiro_head"
*puking smiley*
[ January 04, 2005, 02:27 PM: Message edited by: mr_porteiro_head ]
Posted by amira tharani (Member # 182) on :
I'm enjoying reading all the different perspectives on this one. I do think Jamie Taylor Novak sounds great, though
In the culture I come from, most people have a string of family names. It's normal to take your father's name as your middle name (so I'm Amira Azim Tharani). I like that, especially in big families - you can trace a whole family history through a string of middle names. My nan can trace hers back about 9 generations.
When you marry, though, you swap your husband's name for your fathers: so if I were to marry my current significant other (which may not happen) and to take his name (which equally may not happen) I would be Amira Robert Chilvers and wouldn't keep any of my family names at all. My mum and my nan both did that, but I'm not sure I will. Still, it's an academic question at this point, at least for me Posted by mackillian (Member # 586) on :
We really DO need a vomiting smiley.
Names are just such interesting things.
Posted by quidscribis (Member # 5124) on :
Amira, I love your name! What culture do you come from? It sounds possibly Muslim, although I could be so severely wrong on that.
Posted by Teshi (Member # 5024) on :
quote: Jamie Novak sounds great, like you're a rogue assassin who used to work for the US government...
Exactly. "Striking" takes on a whole nother meaning.
Posted by Annie (Member # 295) on :
My aunt married a Lebanese man of Christian heritage. His family's naming customs fascinate me. His name is Joseph Michael Hanania and his father's name is Michael Joseph, and his grandfather is Joseph Michael, and so he named his son.... Michael Joseph.
Posted by Annie (Member # 295) on :
What do you all think of the custom of going by Mrs. (husband's first and last name)? In some parts of the South, I know it's still done but it seems to have fallen quite out of fashion. I might call myself that every once in a while just to be deliberately old fashioned, because it intrigues me.
Posted by Belle (Member # 2314) on :
I think you made a great decision, I think it sounds great and it's the best of both worlds - Taylor is still a part of your name and you and Nate will share a last name.
When I got married I decided not to do that, I wasn't attached to my maiden name at all, so kept my middle and took Wes' last name.
Interestingly, I've thought now that it would be cool to have my birth name back (we were adopted by my stepfather so my maiden name is HIS name but now that I have my birth father back in my life, I'd kind of like to have that name again) Which would mean changing my middle name to my birth name - it wouldn't mess up my initials any, as my middle name starts with the same letter.
I've also considered taking my birth name as a pen name, if I ever do finish anything and try to get published again.
Posted by dkw (Member # 3264) on :
Jamie, getting married is the one time that you get the chance to change your name with no hassles at all. The application for your marriage license will ask you for your name pre-marriage and your name post-marriage, and that’s all there is to it. After you get the copy of your marriage certificate, you take it around to any place that needs to change their records – driver’s license, social security office, etc.
quote:There is only one way to solve this.
You will need a good pen and lots of paper.
In flowery script (little doodles of houses and flowers on the borders of each page are recommended but not required), write each possible variant at least a dozen times. (Dreamy look during this process is optional.)
When you're done, you'll know.
That's what I did.
Edit: But since so much correspondence is now done online, you should also type all possible variations in multiple fonts.
[ January 04, 2005, 12:55 PM: Message edited by: dkw ]
Posted by Belle (Member # 2314) on :
I've got a question while we're on the subject of names - (and since Jamie has decided I don't feel so bad about hijacking for my own purposes)
Is it important as a writer to have a last name people can pronounce? I mean, if I change to my birth name as a pen name, I don't think it will be pronounced correctly by many people unless they speak French.
Does that matter?
For the curious it's Roulier Posted by mr_porteiro_head (Member # 4644) on :
It doesn't matter.
I still am not sure how to pronounce Hienlien.
Or whether it's spelled Heinlein or Hienlien.
Posted by Annie (Member # 295) on :
Belle, I thought about that too. I wanted to use my first name Anneke as a pen name, but very few people pronounce it correctly. I thought about being Anna K. Morgan, but then I thought that was a little too prosaic.
Does it bug you when you can't pronounce an author's name?
Posted by mackillian (Member # 586) on :
Yeah, I think it works well.
Adrian, I'm not sure about the pen name thing, I never considered it, actually, since my name is generally hard to screw up pronunciation wise. Hmmmm. Dang.
As for the Mrs. Husband's Name thing, I HATE that. I seriously do, because it takes away your name entirely. That is part of my identity, and I wouldn't respond to that. Mr. & Mrs. Novak, that's fine. But not Mrs. Nathan Novak. ...okay, apparently that's a sure way to piss me off. Posted by Belle (Member # 2314) on :
Yes. LOL
Mainly because when I recommend a book to someone I don't want to sound like an idiot.
I'm one of those auditory readers, I pronounce everything in my head and I get very frustrated with names in Science Fiction stories that aren't easy to pronounce.
Posted by mr_porteiro_head (Member # 4644) on :
quote:okay, apparently that's a sure way to piss me off. [Smile]
*takes notes*
[ January 04, 2005, 01:02 PM: Message edited by: mr_porteiro_head ]
Posted by quidscribis (Member # 5124) on :
Hey, that whole Mrs. Husband's First Name Husband's Last Name thing would piss me off, too. Do I have my own personality, or don't I?
If you've met me in person, you surely know the answer to that. And if necessary, I WILL beat it into you.
As for author names - Anneke, I would go with Anneke. It's a much more interesting name, and if that will make people look at your book cover a second time, then you're further along already. I don't care if I can't pronounce author's names correctly. I just make up my own version until I know better. But I definitely like interesting names.
And now that you brought this up, dagnabbit but I might have to change my mind on my own pen name as a result. Using initials is too . . . boring. Posted by mackillian (Member # 586) on :
Holy crap, I'm the same way. I HATE it when I can't figure out how to pronounce a name.
I think it stems from childhood, and learning to read out loud in first grade. I came across the name Jacob pronounce it with a short a and not a long a.
And got laughed at.
Yup. Childhood trauma. Posted by mr_porteiro_head (Member # 4644) on :
I still pronounce it with a short a.
I spent too long speaking Portugese.
Posted by amira tharani (Member # 182) on :
Well guessed, Quid! It's Muslim - my name and my father's are both Arabic, though we are of Indian extraction... actually, my dad's family is originally Iranian - the name Tharani is a Gujarati corruption of Tehrani, as in "from Tehran." So the name as a whole is a pretty good indication of where I'm from. Which is why I'm kind of attached to it.
Posted by jeniwren (Member # 2002) on :
mac, I think you've made a good decision too, fwiw. It was really important to my son that he have the same last name as I have -- a difficulty when I remarried. I considered briefly keeping my *first* husband's name, but my second husband had a big problem with it. (In the long run, I'm glad we didn't do that, for our daughter's sake.) We asked my first husband if we could change his son's last name, which was a problem, since our son is named after him and has a IV at the end of his name (being the fourth of that name, obviously). He said no. In the end, we waited a year, then I went ahead and went to court to have my son's name changed over the objections of my first husband. My son is much happier with his new name and if, at some point, he wants to go back to the name he was born with, he can go to court and do it himself. I'll even pay for it. Some kids don't care about it, but my son really did.
Posted by Lisha-princess (Member # 6966) on :
I think about this sometimes. My father only has daughters and I'm not impressed with the caliber of the rest of the family who shares our last name and I hate the idea of the carrying-on of it going to them. But I have pretty much decided I'll use my maiden name for a pen name, and then have my "real" name take his last name...unless my future husband, whoever he ends up being, wants my last name.
I also think about such things when I meet guys. I consider their last names and such, and not only how they would sound with my name, but also whether I like it. Maybe that's shallow, but I figure, if you're stuck with it as your new name for the rest of your life...then it kind of matters!
Posted by Annie (Member # 295) on :
Especially when, like a friend of mine, you end up dating a boy whose last name is Virgin. Posted by Bob_Scopatz (Member # 1227) on :
Is her first name Nota? Ever?
Posted by Annie (Member # 295) on :
Lika
Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
or Hadda?
Posted by Bob_Scopatz (Member # 1227) on :
Leda.
Okay, that's just wrong.
Posted by The Rabbit (Member # 671) on :
Before I gor married I had published several scientific papers under my maiden name so I did not change my name. At least that's the official story. I probably wouldn't have wanted to change my name any way. My name is part of me and my heritage -- it would have seemed strange to me to change it even though my mother and 3 of my 4 sisters changed their names without giving it a second thought.
I decided, when I got married, that I would keep my maiden name legally and professionally and use my husbands name at church and for social occasions. That has ended up being rather confusing. It is really kind of embarrassing when people ask you your last name and you give them a blank stare while your trying to remember what name you should use for this occasion.
My observation is that very few professional women change their names when they get married. Women who have not established a professional career before they marry, most commonly do change their names.
It used to be really confusing to people when families didn't all have the same last name, but it has become so common now that it is almost assumed.
Posted by Icarus (Member # 3162) on :
I've always assumed that if my writing career ever takes off, I will have to use a pen-name.
[ January 04, 2005, 08:15 PM: Message edited by: Icarus ]
Posted by Teshi (Member # 5024) on :
I always disliked the fact that no one ever pronounced my name wrong.
But then people started calling me the wrong name; Veronica, Vanessa and Elizabeth are all common mistakes, and I liked my name more.
I still dislike my last name though.
Posted by Lisha-princess (Member # 6966) on :
I think about this sometimes. My father only has daughters and I'm not impressed with the caliber of the rest of the family who shares our last name and I hate the idea of the carrying-on of it going to them. But I have pretty much decided I'll use my maiden name for a pen name, and then have my "real" name take his last name...unless my future husband, whoever he ends up being, wants my last name.
I also think about such things when I meet guys. I consider their last names and such, and not only how they would sound with my name, but also whether I like it. Maybe that's shallow, but I figure, if you're stuck with it as your new name for the rest of your life...then it kind of matters!
Posted by quidscribis (Member # 5124) on :
Amira - that is so totally cool! If it were me, I'd want to keep, too. You've got a great name!
Does that also mean you're Muslim? As in, my husband may not be the only one here? Although, he seems to come here only a very once in a while, so I'm not sure he even really counts . . .
Posted by Anti-Chris (Member # 4452) on :
I personally liked Novlor. ::shrug::
Ugh, I hate being away for days at a time and missing a perfectly good oppurtunity for a zinger.
Posted by Kasie H (Member # 2120) on :
There's also the option of changing your name and the using your maiden name professionally. I think if/when I get marrried I might do that -- do the maiden name as middle name approach, but in the workplace still use my original name without my husband's. Obviously this is academic for me too, but that's always the way I thought I'd do it.
Posted by Trisha the Severe Hottie (Member # 6000) on :
I think Taylor-Novak actually sounds okay, provided that Nathan also changes to Taylor-Novak. I think sharing a last name is another way to be symbolically one. If that floats your boat. They aren't too insanely long for that to work.
My husband did offer to take my last name, actually. He's a bit of a noncomformist. Too bad I decided he was just being nice. There will probably never be another Brad Chiu.
My oldest sister was thinking of keeping her first husband's name because they had a daughter together, but after the ceremony the first time she was called "Mrs. [2nd husband's name]" she decided she liked it.
My next sister kept her name and had several fits when Mom kept assuming her legal name would now be "Mrs. [1st husband's name]". Like on Mom's last will and testament. I don't know if there are legal conventions granting recognition in such a case. Maybe it calls the "being of sound mind" clause into question. Her second husband had a definite preference that she take his name, so she did, eventually. So you don't have to decide right away.
All I did was send for a new social security card with a copy of my marriage certificate, to take my husband's name. A hyphenate may require legal documentation, in which case it is another expense.
On the whole feminist issue, if you don't take your husband's name you still have your father's name, or your grandfather's name on back. Unless you want to adopt a uniquely feminist name like Wimynpower Posted by jexx (Member # 3450) on :
or Madame Ovary. *grin*
I have a friend whose husband changed his name to HER family name, because he had such a wretchedly abusive family. It was the best choice for them.
I didn't have an issue with changing my maiden name to my husband's name, because both of them are boring boring boring so it didn't really matter to me. If I had a unique (or shorter) maiden name, I might have used it for a middle name.
I have enjoyed this thread, though, because it gets me thinking about the importance of nomenclature in general, and in particular as regards to genealogy.
Hmm...
(I also love the name 'Salender'...I wonder if anyone would mind me using it in a story? Not that I will ever publish anything )
Posted by amira tharani (Member # 182) on :
*hijacks thread* Quid, no Fahim isn't the only Muslim here. I was, for a long time, until he showed up! I don't post much in religion threads though, and I haven't been posting much at all the last few months, so I can see how you might have missed that. *end hijack*
Posted by Trisha the Severe Hottie (Member # 6000) on :
Dude, when I read this thread I somehow missed that you had made your decision. Well, there can never be too many threads about hatrack marriages on the front page. :bump:
Posted by celia60 (Member # 2039) on :
Btw, changing your name with social security is rather essential. I thought that I'd done it (I swear I remember being in the office in Huntsville for that purpose), but the next time we filed taxes, the IRS told me I didn't exist.
And I totally missed this thread the first time around. I asked Nathan, he said you were taking his name and I said, "good, now I won't know 2 Jamie Taylors."
You know, because your path crosses his so often....
Posted by Chris Bridges (Member # 1138) on :
Distant aside - Heinlein is pronounced "Hine-line."
I was pretty close to this for years without knowing otherwise, but was completely shocked when I discovered last year that I'd been pronouncing one of my favorite comic creator's name wrong since the 1980's. Phil Foglio, of "What's New" and "Girl Genius" fame, pronounces his last name "foh-LEE-oh." I never knew...
Posted by Farmgirl (Member # 5567) on :
quote:Is it important as a writer to have a last name people can pronounce? I mean, if I change to my birth name as a pen name, I don't think it will be pronounced correctly by many people unless they speak French.
Does that matter?
For the curious it's Roulier
Hey Belle! I'll bet I can pronounce it!
I work with a guy who's last name is Boulier and he has taught me MANY times how to say it properly (although I can't imitate his New Orleans accent he has when he says it.
Farmgirl
Posted by Belle (Member # 2314) on :
FG, that's hysterical. When I lived in New Orleans for a couple of years I had several people try to teach me how to say my first and last name correctly. They also didn't understand why my name uses the masculine spelling. The feminine would be Adrienne.
The reason is that I was named for my father's uncle, a man, and they used the same spelling.
Living most of my life in Alabama, few people noticed anything out of the ordinary, but down there I was constantly explaining why my name was spelled "wrong."
Posted by mackillian (Member # 586) on :
I finally went to the Social Security Office today.
Got a pretty cool compromise. I really wanted to keep Taylor in some part, especially after my grandfather passing away on Jan 6th. But I didn't want a hyphen.
Turns you don't HAVE to have one, you can just have a space.
So now I have no middle name (like my grandfather) and have Taylor Novak as my last name. So it's Jamie Taylor Novak. It makes me happy, there's no hyphen, and traditionalists can think whatever they want. Posted by Judas (Member # 7355) on :
Jamie T Novak... I reeaaallly like it. I'm happy for you.
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But that's me. And LOL@pop.
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I stayed out of it. I just thought it was funny and imagined the possibilities for mistaken identity.![[Evil]](graemlins/evil.gif)
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