This is topic A momentus discovery in the history of man: Water found elsewear in the Universe! in forum Books, Films, Food and Culture at Hatrack River Forum.
Today, March 9, 2006, scientists have officially confirmed that water has been found on another body then that of the Earth. Liquid water geyesers have been discovered, creating plumes. This is a defining moment in Human history, and will go down in the record books.
So, any thoghts? Who knows if it holds microbial life. Highly doubtable, but possible.
Note, the other body is Enceladus, Saturn's sixth largest moon.
Posted by JonnyNotSoBravo (Member # 5715) on :
Can you provide a link, please?
Posted by Reticulum (Member # 8776) on :
That's what I get for reloading the page to make sure a link hasn't already been posted before I post my link. Posted by Princess Leah (Member # 6026) on :
There's an article posted there. (it includes a grammatical error. I am depraved)
My thoughts: I don't think it was "official". We've already "discovered" water on the moon and on Mars in the past...but no.
I'm gonna wait a bit before I put on my space-colony-nerd-suit and dance around.
Posted by smitty (Member # 8855) on :
Are you going to post pictures of the suit?
Posted by Reticulum (Member # 8776) on :
Those bodies "had" water. This one has it on it right now, and it is 'a churnin'.
Posted by Princess Leah (Member # 6026) on :
You show me yours...and I'll show you mine. *coquettish look*
Posted by Icarus (Member # 3162) on :
Cool. Posted by Reticulum (Member # 8776) on :
Icarus's response to one of the greatest discoveries of his time: "Cool. "
Posted by hugh57 (Member # 5527) on :
quote:Originally posted by Princess Leah: My thoughts: I don't think it was "official". We've already "discovered" water on the moon and on Mars in the past...but no.
We have discovered water on other bodies before, but if I'm not mistaken, the "water" on the Moon, Mars and Jupiter's Moon Europa was water in solid form, aka ice.
Liquid water is considered one of the main conditions necessary for the existence of life. Today's discovery marks the first time, I beleive, that water, in liquid form, has been discovered anywhere other than Earth.
Posted by Reticulum (Member # 8776) on :
I find this funny. Sorry about bumping it, ( ), but I think others should know.
Posted by Reticulum (Member # 8776) on :
Actually it is speculated that liquid water IS underneath the Europan surface. This is the first time, we have PROOF, actual physical proof.
Posted by Morbo (Member # 5309) on :
Sweet Posted by Advent 115 (Member # 8914) on :
I thought we already knew there might be water on Europa? And anyways, SWEET! Finally the chance ot refute almost all Earth religons with the existance of other life forms!
(not that the Republicans won't nuke it so that they stay right) Posted by Reticulum (Member # 8776) on :
Actually, that will be interesting. I think it will be MORE interesting, when we encounter INTELLIGENT Extraterrestrial life.
Posted by Advent 115 (Member # 8914) on :
I want us to be naughty and influence their evolutionary path. Thats if we find any thing.
Posted by mr_porteiro_head (Member # 4644) on :
quote:Originally posted by Advent 115: SWEET! Finally the chance ot refute almost all Earth religons with the existance of other life forms!
That statment you made is as ignorant as it is tiring.
Posted by Reticulum (Member # 8776) on :
That would be playing god! *cough* Spore *cough* best game ever *cough*...
Posted by beverly (Member # 6246) on :
quote:Finally the chance ot refute almost all Earth religons with the existance of other life forms!
Not mine. In fact, my *Christian* church doctrinally believes that there is *definitely* intelligent life on other worlds. Posted by Advent 115 (Member # 8914) on :
I know MPH, but sometimes I wonder if such scientific discoveries would change the way we view religon. And beverly, are you sure?
Posted by beverly (Member # 6246) on :
Absolutely.
Posted by Reticulum (Member # 8776) on :
Well, yes. I am wondering more so how someone like the pope would handle it, and what he would do.
Posted by beverly (Member # 6246) on :
To Rhett: Ever read "Speaker for the Dead?" Posted by mr_porteiro_head (Member # 4644) on :
There's a big difference between wondering about religion and making asinine statements about it.
Posted by Reticulum (Member # 8776) on :
Well, Duh. But then, it is just a book. It may be right, it may be wrong. I would be very interested in what they would do. It probably would follow along those lines though...
Posted by Advent 115 (Member # 8914) on :
Well as old as most popes are, he might have a heart attack. then he'd pray to God for guidance for... I don't know maybe a week.
Posted by Reticulum (Member # 8776) on :
quote:Originally posted by Advent 115: Well as old as most popes are, he might have a heart attack. then he'd pray to God for guidance for... I don't know maybe a week.
I don't think you are posting many respectful coments towards the religions of others, Advent.
Posted by Advent 115 (Member # 8914) on :
I know. but I get that way sometimes when thinking about relegon.
Sorry. I'll stop now. Posted by beverly (Member # 6246) on :
Keep in mind that newbies in the past that come in slamming religions get smacked down pretty quick. You may not feel respect organized religion, but it is common courtesy to others to at least feign respect.
Besides, as you learn more about religions and the actual people in them, you might change your views a bit.
Posted by Reticulum (Member # 8776) on :
She does have a point. I however, think we should move back to a happier subject. Water=life. I undoubtedly, think there are microbes on Encledus. How do you pronounce that?
Posted by Advent 115 (Member # 8914) on :
Nope. I will never be converted or respect them. But I will try to keep my mouth shut. *zippers mouth shut*
Posted by Advent 115 (Member # 8914) on :
No idea Ret, but I do hope that your right. I want microbial life forms!
Posted by Reticulum (Member # 8776) on :
Respect is something all deserve, no matter what, Advent. Why, evem Hitler would deserve repsect. And those who don't like G.W.B. should still give him respect.
Posted by Advent 115 (Member # 8914) on :
I give respect to only those that earn it. And back to the water on other planets thing.
What kind of life would you expect Ret? Microbes or multicellular?
Posted by beverly (Member # 6246) on :
Whether or not you are converted to anything is your choice and perogative. But it is a good idea to learn to respect a variety of viewpoints that differ from your own. You are far more likely to receive respect from others.
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
The ice water on Europa is believed to be merely a crust, underneath which ocean's of liquid water may exist.
Martian water is frozen at the caps, but it's hoped that much more might exist beneath the surface, possibly, though not likely, in liquid form.
As for the moon, I've never heard there actually being water on the moon. But there is hydrogen, which makes it likely that water could be created on the surface.
Europa is the only source of possible liquid water on the solar system other than earth at the moment I believe. Enceledus' water is subsurface, much as Europa's is believed to be. Once the water there hits the surface it instantly freezes and becomes part of one of the rings around Saturn.
Until they can get a probe to the surface though, everything is still speculation.
Posted by Reticulum (Member # 8776) on :
I would expect simple Microbes that are either bacteria, or something very similar to them would be found. Or, maybe we will find none. Current evidence shows that once the conditions were right on Earth, simple life appeared, followed by the cambrian explosion. No one knows what "caused" life. What "sparked" it.
Posted by Advent 115 (Member # 8914) on :
Good point Lyrhawn. But my question is do you expect multi or sigular cell organisms. I think there is a good posability of multi, considering that life on these places have had just as much time to evolve as us. (not intelegent, but at least multicellular)
Posted by Reticulum (Member # 8776) on :
Not entirely. Earth is 4 Billion years old, and very stable. Enceladus is kind of on the fritz, and unpredictable. It is extreme;y likely, IMO that we will find Microbial life in the solar system in the 30 years.
Posted by Morbo (Member # 5309) on :
Two probes have tentatively discovered ice at the poles of the moon. But at least one scientist involved still thinks of the discovery as unconfirmed.
Although Europa is widely believed to have water under ground, AFAIK there is only indirect evidence for it.
Posted by Reticulum (Member # 8776) on :
It is generally accpeted that Europa has salty oceans. And, well, if... you have water, and salty oceans, and...water, you get life.
Posted by Advent 115 (Member # 8914) on :
Well I think that has more to do with the heat our planet is exposed to. But I was thinking that at least a Microscopic multicellular organisms may have formed. Not complex but at least addapting to their enviroment very slowly. And I really hope it won't take that long. I want my children to grow up never knowing of a time of us not knowing of other life forms on other worlds (at least a bacteria, I mean somethin at least!)
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
Thus when it really comes down to it, ice on any other stellar body is only theoretical, despite the proof we have. Until we get an actual probe, on the surface to do a test, we won't know for sure.
Posted by Reticulum (Member # 8776) on :
Besides Mars. We KNOW Mars has ice. And yes, EVERYTHING in science in theoretical. Can we really prove black and white holes exist untill we send a probe to be destroyed? That Mercury really exists untill we send a probe to its surface. Can we REALLY prove extrasolar planets exist untill we send probes to land on them?
I think you get my point...
Posted by ricree101 (Member # 7749) on :
I hate to spoil the party, but the presence of water does not imply the presence of life. Heck, we're not even certain that it is a necessity for life.
So far, we know of one planet on which life has evolved. That is not nearly enough information to make these kinds of general statements.
Posted by Advent 115 (Member # 8914) on :
Or maybe Mars is just topped with a thin layer of vanilla frosting on its poles.
(Mmmmmm, vanilla frosting)
Posted by Reticulum (Member # 8776) on :
That is a point I commonly like to make. We say this, because our life is completely dependant on water, and cannot exist without it. We are trying to search for things like us. Also, I always say that science is too limiting. Ammonia based life forms could exist.
Technically two. Mars COULD have, and probably DID have life, IMO.
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
Ret -
I didn't mean in the sense that gravity is still a theory or anything like that. Enceladus and Europa have never had a probe land on the surface. There's just a good chance there's water there, but when we land there may not be at all. It's an opinion of a photograph and some sketchy scans, but it isn't a lock.
Posted by Advent 115 (Member # 8914) on :
Speaking of which, when is the launch of the Europa landing probe schedualed for? I'm pretty sure that NASA is building one....
Posted by Reticulum (Member # 8776) on :
It is not just what you said above. Europa has a magnetic field similar to Earth's that has some of the same characteristics. Europa's topographical features also give hints and evidence to support this.
Cassini, when passing through it, discovered that 65% percnet of Enceladus's atmosphere was water. Water vapor. So yes, Liquid water probably exists on it's SURFACE.
Posted by ricree101 (Member # 7749) on :
quote:Originally posted by Advent 115: Speaking of which, when is the launch of the Europa landing probe schedualed for? I'm pretty sure that NASA is building one....
I think that it might have been put aside in the budget cut. Not sure, though.
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
Doubtful Retic, the surface is too cold to support LIQUID water. It would exist undernearth the surface, which is ice crust.
Posted by Reticulum (Member # 8776) on :
There is currently no Plan by NASA.
Posted by Advent 115 (Member # 8914) on :
Dang. I waited all that time for Hughyes probe to land, and now the only other probe for awhle is bound for Mars.
I WANT TO SEE MICROBES DANG IT!
Posted by Reticulum (Member # 8776) on :
No, actually the geyesers create the water, which turns in to water vapor. It isn't nessecarily on the surface, so much as vapor. It exists very close to the surface as liquid water, though.
Posted by Reticulum (Member # 8776) on :
You mean Huygens?
Posted by hugh57 (Member # 5527) on :
Given the current political climate, it may be awhile before NASA gets funding for new projects. A shame, but there it is.
Posted by Advent 115 (Member # 8914) on :
Sorry, never remember how to spell it correctly. And yeah hugh, it is a shame.
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
quote:Originally posted by Reticulum: No, actually the geyesers create the water, which turns in to water vapor. It isn't nessecarily on the surface, so much as vapor. It exists very close to the surface as liquid water, though.
You said Europa before, but you're talking about Enceladus right?
Posted by Morbo (Member # 5309) on :
quote:Originally posted by Lyrhawn: Thus when it really comes down to it, ice on any other stellar body is only theoretical, despite the proof we have. Until we get an actual probe, on the surface to do a test, we won't know for sure.
No, spectroscopic analysis from a distance can confirm water or ice or other chemicals--but only on surfaces. The interior of Europa doesn't emit anything to analyze.
Posted by Reticulum (Member # 8776) on :
Oh, yes. Enceladus.
Posted by Reticulum (Member # 8776) on :
Actually, it emits a magnetic field, due to the slt in its oceans.
Posted by Amanecer (Member # 4068) on :
quote:the presence of water does not imply the presence of life
But it does heavily hint at it. If there's, water, methane, ammonia, and hydrogen, it's quite likely that there's life. Link Posted by Tatiana (Member # 6776) on :
You do realize how cold it is there, right? It's quite quite cold. The most bizarre thing to me is that the temperature at the pole is warmer than at the equator. On the Nasa page they said it was like finding out Anarctica was warmer than the Sahara. What could be causing that anomaly?
One part of me wants to think of protozoans huddling around a post-apocalyptic nuclear waste dump. But it's anyone's guess at this point. It's super thrilling that they've found it. I can't wait until we actually explore the solar system! How has humanity resisted the urge for so long? It's mysterious and it's huge and it's where we live! Don't you guys just want to know what's there? Are we going to stay on this one little blue marble forever?
Posted by Swampjedi (Member # 7374) on :
I hope not, Tatiana. That way, those of us with our ignorant, small minded belief in a simple book can leave this world and fly to a better one.
Pun intended, but being serious too.
Posted by Bokonon (Member # 480) on :
Hey Advent, check out this part of the Forum Users Agreement you had to accept befor creating a user on Hatrack (the bolding is mine):
quote:You also agree that you will not use this forum to try to convert people to your own religious beliefs, or to disparage others for their own religious beliefs.
-Bok
Posted by Reticulum (Member # 8776) on :
I definitely agree with you there Swampy.
Posted by camus (Member # 8052) on :
quote:I will never be converted or respect them
You can still respect a person without having to respect the religion.
Posted by Advent 115 (Member # 8914) on :
I didn't say that I never respect the person (Bush and Cheney are my exceptions) I just don't respect religons.
But please don't get me started. I am trying to be polite and keep my mouth shut.
Posted by Bokonon (Member # 480) on :
quote:Originally posted by Advent 115: But please don't get me started. I am trying to be polite and keep my mouth shut.
See this is a thing that rankles me. If you hit the "Add Reply" button with a post that has this sentence in it (or one like it), guess what? Too late, you aren't polite. Advent you aren't the only one (heck, I've done it on occassion), just the most recent example I've read.
You could have left it out, and actually BEEN polite, rather than "just trying".
-Bok
Posted by Reticulum (Member # 8776) on :
I think Advent needs some ice... For that awesome burn!
![[Grumble]](graemlins/grumble.gif)
![[Smile]](smile.gif)
![[Frown]](frown.gif)
), but I think others should know.
![[Evil]](graemlins/evil.gif)
![[Wink]](wink.gif)
In fact, my *Christian* church doctrinally believes that there is *definitely* intelligent life on other worlds. ![[Razz]](tongue.gif)
![[Group Hug]](graemlins/grouphug.gif)
But it's anyone's guess at this point. It's super thrilling that they've found it. I can't wait until we actually explore the solar system! How has humanity resisted the urge for so long? It's mysterious and it's huge and it's where we live! Don't you guys just want to know what's there? Are we going to stay on this one little blue marble forever?