The way Jon Stewart is spinning it Bill Clinton flew in to North Korea and single handedly gained the release of 2 American (with Chinese names?) Journalists from North Korea. Single Handed without any bloodshed or violence!
Mr Clinton, we didn't think you could do it but you did, you earned yet another CMOA Posted by fugu13 (Member # 2859) on :
Heh, amusing as that idea is, it isn't really accurate. The political reality is that the conditions of the release were negotiated before he visited, and that one of those conditions was that he would give facetime to Kim Jong-il. He was possibly somewhat involved in the negotiations, but those likely took place mostly out of band with the state department. Using him meant the government wasn't technically treating with NK at all, but everyone can still tell the visit was unofficially official.
Posted by daventor (Member # 11981) on :
You mean he did it with only one of his hands!? That's amazing!
Posted by BandoCommando (Member # 7746) on :
I think it was officially unofficial.
Posted by Darth_Mauve (Member # 4709) on :
He will always be remembered for his ability to pick up chicks.
Posted by King of Men (Member # 6684) on :
Dude, talk about diluting the concept. The man was a messenger boy for the outcome of a negotiation long done. An Average Moment Of Competence, at the very most.
Posted by Orincoro (Member # 8854) on :
quote:Originally posted by Darth_Mauve: He will always be remembered for his ability to pick up chicks.
Perhaps he could be the first American dude to pick up hot North Korean chicks in generations. Bill Clinton: Trailblazer.
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
quote:Originally posted by fugu13: Heh, amusing as that idea is, it isn't really accurate. The political reality is that the conditions of the release were negotiated before he visited, and that one of those conditions was that he would give facetime to Kim Jong-il. He was possibly somewhat involved in the negotiations, but those likely took place mostly out of band with the state department. Using him meant the government wasn't technically treating with NK at all, but everyone can still tell the visit was unofficially official.
It's tricky. On the one hand, he was most likely entirely uninvolved with the negotiations that took place in the run up to his flight to North Korea, so saying he flew in with a cape and a big C on his chest and saved the day is obviously false...but on the other hand, there's some serious question as to whether or not the deal would have gone through without Clinton showing up.
Near as I can tell he was the lynch pin in a plan formulated by several other people.
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
Xanatos Gilligan?
Posted by fugu13 (Member # 2859) on :
Sure, but any former President or other semi-public figure of similar stature (Powell, for instance) could have served.
Don't get me wrong, it was good he went, but there's nothing particularly special about the role he played.
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
quote:Originally posted by fugu13: Sure, but any former President or other semi-public figure of similar stature (Powell, for instance) could have served.
Don't get me wrong, it was good he went, but there's nothing particularly special about the role he played.
I've read a couple of different stories that say Kim Jong Il specifically wanted Clinton, who he's been trying to meet with for more than a decade, and who he was supposed to meet with back in I think 2000, but something fell through and the meet up was cancelled. He specifically wanted Clinton. Yeah, perhaps some other major non-governmental figure of stature would have sufficed, though really, I feel like we're sort of short on those figures (though yeah, I guess Powell would fit into that category), but given the quirky nature of the regime, I'm not sure that's a given. It's unknowable, but he had a specific interest in Clinton.
Posted by Anthonie (Member # 884) on :
I wonder if anyone in the State Department (like a secretary or something) had any pull with former President Clinton?
No matter whether his visit was officially unofficial or unofficially official, it is wonderful the journalists were released! My cousin is one of Laura Ling's friends, and he was quite concerned about her situation. It is nice to see their families reunited.
So glad they are out of danger.
Posted by The Pixiest (Member # 1863) on :
As I said on another site.. I bet Hillary is pleased that he brought home TWO chicks this time.
Blayne: Americans can have any type of name from any part of the world. Americans come from all over.
Posted by Mucus (Member # 9735) on :
Also, technically Euna Lee is Korean-American by way of South Korea.
Posted by The Pixiest (Member # 1863) on :
mucus: She's still American.
Posted by Mucus (Member # 9735) on :
Did I say she wasn't?
Posted by The Pixiest (Member # 1863) on :
mucus: No but the "technically" part threw me as to what you were trying to imply.
Posted by Mucus (Member # 9735) on :
Ah, no.
It was more of a response to Blayne, as in she doesn't necessarily have a Chinese name anyways.
Posted by MightyCow (Member # 9253) on :
I bet K. Jong got some pimp tips from Clinton. That's really the take away from this whole deal. Pretty soon K. Jong's gonna be too busy pimpin' his ride and chillin' with the shorties to worry about his world image.
Posted by The Pixiest (Member # 1863) on :
Cow: I understand the man is very lonely.
Posted by Darth_Mauve (Member # 4709) on :
Wow--I just found out that one of my co-workers knows and is friends with one of their husbands.
Posted by Orincoro (Member # 8854) on :
quote:Originally posted by Mucus: Ah, no.
It was more of a response to Blayne, as in she doesn't necessarily have a Chinese name anyways.
I was under the sort of flimsy general impression that the Lee surname is a recent addition especially to South Korea through intermarriage with mainland China. Still I don't know about which surnames are most common where, and anyway the rate of intermarriage between Chinese men and Korean women, I have read, is a small fraction of that between Korean men and Chinese women, due to the large proportions of South Korean bachelors to available women. Is that the general situation?
I know some Asian countries like Vietnam have an overwhelming predominance of a small pool of surnames because of royal bloodlines (so I hear). I had three Korean friends in grade school, all named Edward Lim, and I think four Vietnamese guys in my school called Michael Nguyen. But then we had like six Juan Garcias, so maybe my school just attracted people with really common names.
Posted by vonk (Member # 9027) on :
So ronery, and sad to be arone.
Posted by Mucus (Member # 9735) on :
Orincoro: IANAE, I think your musings on inter-marriage may be correct but too recent to explain her name. I was under the impression at the time of the post that "Lee" (or rather 이) may have been one of the family names that had been imported into Korea a long time ago and then "Koreanized" from Chinese characters into Korean characters later.
The wiki page on the subject ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korean_name ) seems to back that impression up, saying that Lee comprises 14% of the last names in South Korea. It does not give a specific date for when the transfer occurred for the specific name though it does note that the Koreans adopted the Chinese characters a couple thousand years ago for naming in general.
I suppose YMMV for whether that is old enough to be considered Korean or Chinese *shrug*
Posted by Orincoro (Member # 8854) on :
In the sense that virtually everything east and south east Asian is ultimately a product of pre-industrial Chinese expansion, dating back thousands of years and comprising successive waves of emigration, I'd say Chinese, but in the sense of signifying one's immediate ancestry, or the only roots that matter to the individuals or their society, then I suppose it's Korean.
I've been reading Guns Germs and Steal. Can you tell?
Posted by Anthonie (Member # 884) on :
Well, Bill Clinton may be over a decade late to take this stance so directly and strongly, (and perhaps it is just current politics and not representative of what was really going on under his watch), BUT at least he finally stood up directly against two discriminatory laws enacted during his presidency.
Another shining moment of awesomeness. He's on a roll. Go Bill.
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
quote:Originally posted by Orincoro: I've been reading Guns Germs and Steal. Can you tell?
Did Jared Diamond decide that theft was in fact more of an important factor than steel in establishing Eurasian dominance?
![[Smile]](smile.gif)
Mr Clinton, we didn't think you could do it but you did, you earned yet another CMOA ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)