This is a critique group for writers that will be entering a story into the fourth quarter of 2013 in the Writers of the Future contest (30th year). Anyone is welcome to join, but please follow the directions below for doing such.
Currently, the group consists of me:
WriterDan
If you want to join the group this quarter, please post the current members list in a reply to this post with your name added at the bottom.
Tentative deadlines for this quarter are as follows:
June 1st: Start writing July 14th: First drafts out for crits Aug 7th: Second drafts out for crits Aug 31st: Mail in final drafts
[Note: The official entry deadline for this quarter is September 30th; however, this group's deadlines are set up so that all entries can be entered well before the deadline and hopefully beat the rush at the end of the quarter.]
When you send out drafts for critique, please do so in a generic format so that everyone will be able to open your file. (eg. rtf, txt, pdf. doc and docx [Microsoft Word] files are usually okay too, but you may get asked to resend in a generic format.) Also, please try keep to proper manuscript format so that we can all learn how these things should be correctly submitted. Last, we swap stories via email with addresses listed in the forum. So, be sure to keep your email address current on your profile here at Hatrack. The entire group of entrants this quarter will be split into smaller subgroups when it comes to critting. The subgroups should be in the realm of 4-7 people. So don't get too worried if the size of the whole group gets pretty big.
Also, a word about story limits. The officially published limitation for a Writers of the Future short-story submission is 17,000 words. There is, however, also a page-space limit that comes into play because of hard-copy publication issues. Thus there is an unpublished and fairly-hard limit of 68 pages of properly-formatted manuscript (check out the Vonda McIntyre link below). So when you're writing your entry, be sure to keep both of these story limits in mind.
Finally (and I know that for some of you this will go without saying), if you sign up to swap stories and/or give critiques please give a full critique of the full story. Don't bail on a story just because it "isn't for you". If there is too much violence/profanity/sex in a story, you have the right to stop reading, make a comment saying so, and return the story to the author unfinished (this is what the Wotf judges will do, after all. Well, minus the comment.). Otherwise, please be respectful of the unspoken agreement that we each make to give a full, valid critique to every member of the group that submits a story. Also, try not to do too much re-writing in your crits. It gets tedious sometimes if there are more than just a few examples, and we're all pretty smart here. Thanks.
Yes, yes, I'm EXTREMELY late this time around. Sorry about that, all. Was on vacation over the 1st and then I left the adapter for my laptop at my parent's house. Can't do much with a dead laptop, unfortunately. But all is back in order at my house, and I'm ready for a great round of stories this quarter. So let's get cracking!
Posted by axeminister (Member # 8991) on :
I'm in this time 'round. I start school in August, so the advanced schedule suits me just fine.
I'm hoping to send off Q3 in the next week or so and settle in to writing Q4.
WriterDan Axeminister
Posted by History (Member # 9213) on :
Dustin,
Haven't you pro'd out yet? (Nice story on DSF this week, btw. "Over 1 million words written"? I probably have that as well...if I include all my medical dictations and every other word I've written since the first ones in crayon).
*
As for my participating in Q4...I'm a "maybe." It looks like I'll overshoot the word count. Al-thou-gh, if I do, I could torture everyone with my current opus and ask for the best places to cut to get under 17K. But that might be too cruel.
Respectfully, Dr. Bob
Posted by RyanB (Member # 10008) on :
I'm a maybe as well. I'll be working on my Q3 right up until the deadline, which leaves 2 weeks for a first draft. That seems impossible at this point, but we'll see.
Posted by axeminister (Member # 8991) on :
Dr. Bob. I appreciate the compliment, but no, yesterday's story was my very first pro sale. (Glad you liked it!)
Right now my writing consists of: WotF - 4x a year Flash - as often as possible. (10 a year) Novel - remaining spare time.
So, because I'm so heavily focused on WotF, my overall output and submissions are low.
Someday, I suppose, I'll have a nice cache of stories to perhaps self-pub, or bombard the big 4 with, but for now I'm perpetually writing for the "next quarter."
Axe
Posted by LDWriter2 (Member # 9148) on :
I'm going to be torturing myself again by entering. Maybe also whoever has to check my story for nitpicks.
Dr. Bob how much a torture that is would depend on how much over it is.
Ryan over at the WotF forums there's always a crop of writers there who race to get their stories sent just before midnight deadline day. Tina--if I recall correctly had her husband find a 24 hour post office the night of the deadline.
Axe, when you say Big 4 do you mean that literally? There's a lot of other pro mags beside Four.
Posted by LDWriter2 (Member # 9148) on :
Suppose to have started writing by now but I'm still thinking on it.
Too many ideas, but if need be I have two or three stories already written I could try.
Posted by Tim (Member # 9989) on :
I'm looking to get ahead this quarter and I think the early deadlines here will help me with that.
Count me in for this quarter.
Also, Dr. Bob, I'm up for reading longer works. So feel free to send it my way whenever you're ready.
WriterDan Axeminister LDWriter2 Tim
Maybe? Dr. Bob RyanB
Posted by LDWriter2 (Member # 9148) on :
Trying to decide what story to do. Evidently David said he would like to see more Medieval Fantasy among other plots. As I said already a while back and just reminded myself, I could do one. Actually, I'm surprise I haven't but wait come to think of it maybe I have. I hadn't thought of it in over a year. It could be a Medieval setting, even though it doesn't have to be. But it's more of a Romance Fantasy and I don't know if David could get down with that. Which is all I will say about it except I would rewrite it if I did use it. I wrote it over five-maybe over six-years ago and I've learned a lot since then. I didn't know there were so many "rules" and ways of writing at that time. So it would be easier to redo it instead of fixing it.
There's another one but it's way short and a rather simple story. Well, after a look over, I found another two short, simple stories that could have Medieval settings and one kinda short one that might work for WotF also.
Posted by A Yeatts (Member # 9500) on :
I'm in. And Dr. Bob, I'm happy to tackle a longer piece for you.
WriterDan Axeminister LDWriter2 Tim
Maybe? Dr. Bob RyanB AYeatts
Posted by History (Member # 9213) on :
I appreciate the vote of confidence and your generosity, Tim and Anna.
However, when I have the final word count, I'll let the group decide whether I should be allowed to participate.
The incomplete first draft as of this very moment is 17.7K--and I have more to write.
I have two scenes (~6000 words) I'm anticipating cutting to make WOTF length requirements, as much as I hate to lose them. Even so, I suspect the word count will be close to the limit and it will need a lot of sculpting if not a slash and burn. (The best thing I discovered last quarter about writing short, i.e. less than 7K, is there is so much less to revise and edit. )
This story takes place in the same world as my WOTF Q3 entry, but 100 years in the past, and explores far more of the world, its creatures and people, and its wonders. Too much more, perhaps. Like Pygmalion, I believe I've become too enamored with my creation.
I'm hoping to have the first draft written by the July 14th deadline, but it may not be in a "readable" form for sharing by then.
Tim and Anna, your generosity requires me to offer to critique your stories this quarter even if I am not permitted to participate. A link to my email address is above.
Respectfully, Dr. Bob
Posted by mbwood (Member # 9525) on :
WriterDan Axeminister LDWriter2 Tim mbwood Dr. Bob RyanB AYeatts
Okay, I've tossed my hat in with the anticipation of submitting a radically rewritten version of an earlier submission. I don't know if this is wise, and whether the judges will recognize it (I almost don't recognize it).
Dr. Bob, I found it interesting that you included professional writing in your million word count. I figure I've written well over a million words in just fiction writing. If I include professional writing (yes, I got paid for writing professional economic analyses - which I'm not sure fall into the fact or fiction category), along with professional submissions to scientific journal, I may be pushing the two million word mark. As a result, I find a lot of writing error prone and (unfortunately) distracting to read. I must say that I've enjoyed reading your pieces and appreciate your candid, courteous and very thorough critiques, which I've found to be most helpful. As for your 17K+ piece, if you want an opinion on where to cut it, I'd be willing to give it a go. The size is a little daunting, however, I seem to recall I enjoyed reading your pieces.
Remember the first rule of writing... Write@ mbwood
(see two of my novels on Amazon: Superheat m.b.wood ... and.... MTA & Rapid Transit m.b.wood
Posted by Utahute72 (Member # 9057) on :
OK now that last quarter is done I guess I can start thinking about this quarter. Add me to the list.
WriterDan Axeminister LDWriter2 Tim mbwood Dr. Bob RyanB AYeatts Utahute72
My goal this quarter is to actually make the group deadlines.
Posted by History (Member # 9213) on :
quote:Originally posted by mbwood: Dr. Bob, I found it interesting that you included professional writing in your million word count.
I was being facetious, mb. While the ability to clearly and concisely convey the results of imaging tests is an art in itself (and built on a broad and deep medical knowledge base, decades of experience, and long hours of daily practice), I do not actually consider it relevant or applicable to my fiction writing which is a completely different animal.
My comment was to denote the self-mocking and mildly despairing recognition that it is unlikely I will achieve, in my remaining years, the anecdotal "one million words necessary before being able to write well enough to be published."
quote:I must say that I've enjoyed reading your pieces and appreciate your candid, courteous and very thorough critiques, which I've found to be most helpful. As for your 17K+ piece, if you want an opinion on where to cut it, I'd be willing to give it a go. The size is a little daunting, however, I seem to recall I enjoyed reading your pieces.
Thank you kindly for the compliment, mb. If I'm not going to make the one million words of fiction, I've got to make the words I do write be the best I can make them now. Even so, with only a couple exceptions, I cringe when re-reading the stories I have already written. The best thing about being unpublished is the ability to continue to tweak a word or sentence from time to time, striving to--as I said--vainly (in both connotations of the word ) make each of my less than one million words of fiction the best they can be.
Anyway, my current WIP first draft is at 20K and I've two more scenes to write. Thus I am likely out this quarter, unless I can finish it and self-edit it down to something more reasonable by the deadline of 14 JUL. Otherwise, I would not inflict this tome on anyone.
Respectfully, Dr. Bob
Posted by mbwood (Member # 9525) on :
Okay, Dr. Bob;
that's fine by me. I've enjoyed your previous pieces. If you get to the point of wanting a fresh set of eyes, e-mail me.
Incidentally, I used to make my living by cranking out (every six weeks) economic and market analyses of industry sectors. I've lost track of how many, but it was quite a few. LIke you, I don't count those in my writing (fiction) total. I have finished nine novels, which isn't quite a million words (unless I include the re-writes). Made a lot of mistakes along the way... I hope I'm over most of them now.
Remember the first rule of writing... Write!
mbwood
Posted by History (Member # 9213) on :
Thank you, mb.
I'm debating dropping my current too long WIP to write something shorter for Q4--although I badly want to complete the first draft (I annoyingly already have too many partly completed stories in my files).
With only 10 days before Writer Dan's 1st deadline(and a full work week coming up), I'm out of Group this quarter. But if I have something completed prior to the end of the WOTF Q4 deadline, I'll be in touch regarding potentially swapping reads outside of Group.
Respectfully, Dr. Bob
Posted by LDWriter2 (Member # 9148) on :
I won't be done in ten days either.
Well, unless I decide to use the story I am working on now. It seems to fit what David wants so I may use it.
But I had seriously considered doing a rewrite of a certain story that is the type of story he wants that I wrote five years ago. I won't have time to rewrite that one.
And I mean do rewrite not revising.
Posted by axeminister (Member # 8991) on :
I won't be ready by the 14th. But I'm in good shape. Working on the final scenes now. Then I'll read over and eliminate all the parentheses words. But this appears to be a pretty rough first draft. Hopefully my group doesn't strangle me.
I'm thinking around 9000 words when complete.
However, I'm good to go on reading.
So, when we get split into groups, please send to me whenever.
I'll follow up as soon as I can.
Axe
Posted by LDWriter2 (Member # 9148) on :
I'm definitely not ready. I had wanted to rewrite an old story but I may have to try a new one I'm almost finished with, the rewrite would take another week at the very least.
But even though not on purpose I think that new one could fit what David wants anyway.
Posted by Tim (Member # 9989) on :
I'm ready to read but my story is not ready for crits.
I'll have it done in the next few days.
Posted by LDWriter2 (Member # 9148) on :
Is anyone ready to send their story to the group?
I'm not. Or that depends on which story I decide to go with. One is ready but it's not the first or second story I wanted to send in for Q4.
The first and second could take another week each.
As I think I have said, spending too much time on getting that novel ready to E-publish and trying get covers ready for my story sets.
Posted by WriterDan (Member # 6456) on :
So, the consensus that I'm seeing is that most people aren't ready for a swap yet. Regardless, I'm going to post groups now so that once people [u]are[/u] ready, they can send them off to their group.
I have just a few more tweaks to make to my story, and then it'll be good and ready for some red ink.
Here's the groups for this round:
Group 1: WriterDan LDWriter2 mbwood RyanB
Group 2: Axeminister Tim AYeatts Utahute72
If you're listed in Group 1, send your stories to the others in Group 1. If you're listed in Group 2, send your stories to the others in Group 2.
[ July 16, 2013, 02:30 AM: Message edited by: WriterDan ]
Posted by RyanB (Member # 10008) on :
I'm going to need at least another week, but group 1 can send their stories whenever they're ready.
Does everyone else need the same amount of time to do a second and third draft as they need to do the first draft?
Posted by History (Member # 9213) on :
quote:Originally posted by History: With only 10 days before Writer Dan's 1st deadline(and a full work week coming up), I'm out of Group this quarter. But if I have something completed prior to the end of the WOTF Q4 deadline, I'll be in touch regarding potentially swapping reads outside of Group.
As per the above post of July 4th. I'm out, unfortunately.
Respectfully, Dr. Bob
Posted by WriterDan (Member # 6456) on :
Ah, sorry, Dr. Bob. I just went with the most recent names list. I'll edit the post to reflect your withdrawal.
Dan
Posted by A Yeatts (Member # 9500) on :
Sent mine to Group 2. No rush.
Thanks! Anna
Posted by mbwood (Member # 9525) on :
Got mine off to Group 1. Looking forward to receiving your pieces.
Remember the first rule of writing... Write! mbwood
Posted by axeminister (Member # 8991) on :
Anna, Received.
Hopefully can read very soon.
Axe
Posted by LDWriter2 (Member # 9148) on :
I have received one story.
I have not sent out mine yet. I should this weekend one way or another.
Posted by Dirk Hairychest (Member # 10105) on :
Though I am a latecomer, I am ready with my short for WotF. Is it too late to join?
Posted by A Yeatts (Member # 9500) on :
Don't see why not, Dirk. Jump on in!
Thanks, Axe. No hurry!
Anna
Posted by Dirk Hairychest (Member # 10105) on :
I looked through the threads for previous quarters and see that the convention for late comers seems to be to simply pick a group. Therefore if there are no objections, I will add myself to group 2
Group 1: WriterDan LDWriter2 mbwood RyanB
Group 2: Axeminister Tim AYeatts Utahute72 Dirk Hairychest
[ July 21, 2013, 09:20 PM: Message edited by: Dirk Hairychest ]
Posted by A Yeatts (Member # 9500) on :
I volunteer Group 2! Because anyone whose online id is Dirk Hairychest is an immediate friend on mine.
Send your story on over.
Anna
Posted by Dirk Hairychest (Member # 10105) on :
Thanks for taking me in, Anna. I sent my short out to group 2. I look forward to getting all your stories as soon as your drafts are complete. I'm all giddy!
Posted by A Yeatts (Member # 9500) on :
Hmmm... I don't see yours, Giddy Dirk the Hairychested. (Sorry, that's going to crack me up every time I type it. It's the little narrator voice in my head saying it in a faux British accent that does me in..)
So glad to have you in our little group! I've sent mine your way. Would you mind resending?
Posted by LDWriter2 (Member # 9148) on :
So far still only one story from Group one.
If anyone needs my E-mail address, leave a note here and I will send it.
Been busy with my foray into Indie publishing so I haven't sent out mine yet. But I will in a day or two. It's not the story I wanted to send in this quarter but I think it still fits.
Since I have only received one story I thought about working on the one I wanted but I probably don't have that much time especially since I'm not done with the Indie stuff.
So maybe next quarter bob second though Hopefully not.... Posted by Dirk Hairychest (Member # 10105) on :
I resent my story. Please let me know if you did not get it, my fellow group twoers! I got your story, Anna. Good stuff!
Posted by LDWriter2 (Member # 9148) on :
I sent mine out.
I have also read the one I have received. I have some general comments to make on it but it could a day or three to go through with specific comments.
Posted by Tim (Member # 9989) on :
Dirk, I didn't receive your story yet.
Anna, I'm just about done with my crit and I'll be sending it your way very soon.
My story is in the final stages and should be out by this weekend.
Sorry for the delay.
Posted by mbwood (Member # 9525) on :
Okay, Group 1, time to get a move on! I've sent out my piece and got one crit back (thank you, Ryan, good crit ), and received one submission, which I've critted and returned.
Tempus fugit - August comes with all kinds of vacation activities, followed by WorldCon (which is almost debilitating). Looking forward to receiving your submissions and crits.
Remember the first rule of writing... Write! mbwood
Posted by Dirk Hairychest (Member # 10105) on :
I resent my story to you Tim, using the email address link in this page. Please let me know if you receive it!
Posted by Tim (Member # 9989) on :
Thanks, Matt. Looks like my spam folder ate it for some reason. I'm reading it right now and I'll have comments for you ASAP.
Posted by Dirk Hairychest (Member # 10105) on :
Dirk Hairychest has that effect on spam filters. One gets used to the ignominy.
Posted by A Yeatts (Member # 9500) on :
Tim, I received your crit last last. Thanks so much!
Dirk, I'll finish yours up this afternoon and get it back to you pronto.
You gents are the best. Especially Axe for totally busting me on my lazy #'s. Scrivener and I are feuding. Scriv is winning. But I shall not go quietly into the dark night of loppy #'s.
Anna
Posted by Dirk Hairychest (Member # 10105) on :
Axe, I got your story and should finish up critiquing it tonight. Anna, your critique was very helpful and I am looking forward to implementing some of your excellent insight on the next draft.
Posted by LDWriter2 (Member # 9148) on :
Malcolm did you get my crit?
So far that is the only story I have received unless I lost one.
[ July 31, 2013, 10:33 PM: Message edited by: LDWriter2 ]
Posted by Utahute72 (Member # 9057) on :
OK, I have sent back Anna's crit and received stories from both Axe and Tim. Mine will be out hopefully tonight, so I can read the two I have while mine is being reviewed. Dirk I haven's seen yours come through.
[ August 01, 2013, 10:54 AM: Message edited by: Utahute72 ]
Posted by Dirk Hairychest (Member # 10105) on :
James, I sent it again. Please let me know if you receive it. It looks like it went into the junk folder for a couple folks so you might want to check there. I hope this isn't a bad WotF omen! Posted by mbwood (Member # 9525) on :
Hey, Louis;
Thanks for your crit (sorry about the delay in responding - other **** going on in my life).
At the moment, I've had two crits (Ryan & Louis) and sent out only one... c'mon, group 1 guys, send them!
Remember the first rule of writing... Write!
Posted by RyanB (Member # 10008) on :
Sorry, I'm running late again. This ending is dragging out ... but in a good way, I think.
Posted by Tim (Member # 9989) on :
Group 2,
I think I've sent out all first round critiques at this point. Let me know if anyone didn't receive them so I can resend them.
Thanks,
Tim
Posted by axeminister (Member # 8991) on :
Hmm, I just noticed Aug 7th was the date to swap crits in the 2nd round.
I'm just digging in to my crits now, (have all kinds of documents open) so I'll be a few days. Perhaps by the end of the weekend, I'll send all to group 1.
Axe
Posted by WriterDan (Member # 6456) on :
Yeah, I just noticed today that the swap date had arrived...and passed. Sorry.
Anyhow, here are the current groups, as far as I can tell:
Group 1: WriterDan LDWriter2 mbwood RyanB
Group 2: Axeminister Tim AYeatts Utahute72 Dirk Hairychest
If you're listed in Group 1, send your stories to the others in Group 2. If you're listed in Group 2, send your stories to the others in Group 1.
Posted by Utahute72 (Member # 9057) on :
Dirk
Sorry it took so long to get back to you. I never did find it, did mine come through your way? I'll still read yours if I can find it.
Jim
Posted by Dirk Hairychest (Member # 10105) on :
Hey Ute, I sure did get it. I think I have sent you 5 separate emails. If you can think of something to make sure it doesn't go to junk mail, just let me know!
I should have my next draft out to group 1 by tomorrow. Thanks to all who critiqued my first draft from group 2. There were some very excellent suggestions that I tried to implement.
Posted by LDWriter2 (Member # 9148) on :
Hey, I will be sending mine out to group two after all. Probably tomorrow.
I thought it needed a whole lot more work so I was going to say I won't be sending it out again but group two could send me their stories. But It didn't take as long as I thought to fix what corrections I was shown. Probably was some I wasn't shown, and I may have created some more bad spots, so I will be sending it out.
If you don't have my E-mail address, not it's not the one listed, say so here or wait for my story tomorrow.
Posted by LDWriter2 (Member # 9148) on :
Sent mine out. None back yet. Which means I'm not the only one late this quarter.
I wonder if we will get into the habit of sending in stories at the last moment like half of those over at the WotF forum....it seems like half that is.
BTW that includes last years Grand winner, She had to send her husband out looking for a 24 post office. Yes, incredible enough he found one.
Posted by Dirk Hairychest (Member # 10105) on :
Sent my revised short out to group 1. Woo Hoo! Please let me know if you did not receive it.
I received mb and ld's and we'll get to the crits asap!
Posted by RyanB (Member # 10008) on :
Dirk, it was in my spam folder but I fished it out.
LD, IIRC someone on the WotF forums located the post office for him/her. They joked it was a team effort.
Posted by axeminister (Member # 8991) on :
I've received from MBwood and LDwriter.
I'm sending mine now.
Axe
Posted by LDWriter2 (Member # 9148) on :
quote:Originally posted by axeminister: I've received from MBwood and LDwriter.
I'm sending mine now.
Axe
Did you use my new E-mail address?
Posted by axeminister (Member # 8991) on :
Your query leads me to the conclusion that no, I did not.
Will reply to your story and send mine.
Axe
Posted by WriterDan (Member # 6456) on :
Okay, I've sent mine off. Be looking for it. I've only received a story from Axe so far.
Posted by RyanB (Member # 10008) on :
Dan, did you send it to group 1 or just group 2?
Posted by A Yeatts (Member # 9500) on :
Dan and LD, I have your stories. I'm running a tad late myself. I'll get both my story and your crits to you as soon as I can.
Posted by LDWriter2 (Member # 9148) on :
Working on critting one story but not my own yet.
I got my months mixed up I thought this was the month but we got one more.
Posted by axeminister (Member # 8991) on :
Update:
I've received and critiqued stories from: Louis Malcolm Dan
Received my critiqued story from: Malcolm
Let me know if there's any e-mail trickery afoot.
Axe
Posted by RyanB (Member # 10008) on :
I'm really close to sending mine out, then I'll work on crits for the stories I have, LD, Axe, Dirk, Anna, and Tim.
Posted by WriterDan (Member # 6456) on :
@RyanB: I just sent my story to Group 2. I didn't get my story finished until after the deadline for second-round crits. If you really want to read mine, I'll send it to you too, but I didn't want to double-up on anyone that didn't intentionally ask for it.
I still have 2 or 3 crits to go. Will have those done by week's end. Sorry I'm behind again. I got some really good feedback on my story. Thanks, everyone.
Posted by LDWriter2 (Member # 9148) on :
It seems like I ame getting more stories and crits than just the five I sent out. Which is okay except for one thing.
I changed my story. The original one had all kinds of problems-not the big one everyone seemed to assume was the problem-and I think I failed, most aren't getting what it is about. And I have been told that there is a strong possibility what you could call a PC or feminist problem.
Thought I had received all my crits but seems like I didn't after all. So I apologize for those who are still working through the original story.
I will be still sending out that original one so the crits I received have helped make it better and the grammar cleaner. I really appreciate that.
Posted by WriterDan (Member # 6456) on :
Well, I got all of my crits done...except for Ryan. Sorry, yo. Will try to get that one done tomorrow and back to you. As far as I know, this will complete my critiques. If anyone besides Ryan thinks that I still have their story and they have no review, drop me a word.
Until then... happy writing!
Posted by LDWriter2 (Member # 9148) on :
I have one more crit to do.
I'll be working on it this week.
Posted by LDWriter2 (Member # 9148) on :
I believe I have sent in all my crits. If anyone hasn't received one from me send me a note.
Now to work on my story.
Posted by mbwood (Member # 9525) on :
I checked all of my crits and believe I only need to do one for UtahUte72. So, please send it and I'll turn it around ASAP.
Thanks to all those who offered constructive crits on my piece, which is about to go in to the WotF 2013Q4 contest.
Remember the first rule of writing... Write! mbwood
Posted by RyanB (Member # 10008) on :
I think I've sent out crits for all of the stories I received. If you haven't gotten yours from me, let me know. Thanks everyone for the crits I've received so far.
Posted by LDWriter2 (Member # 9148) on :
Sent mine in. Since no one has mentioned that I skipped critting their story I am assuming I'm finished for this quarter.
If I'm wrong about the critting leave a note.
Or if a late comer needs an extra crit I may have time for one.
Posted by mbwood (Member # 9525) on :
Hello, today, I submitted my piece to the WotF 2013 Q4 contest.
Many thanks to those 'Hatrackers' who offered meaningful comments and suggestions - obviously they improved the story in ways I could not. Now, the long wait begins.
Thanks! mbwood
Posted by LDWriter2 (Member # 9148) on :
After reading some of David's daily kicks lately I thought this one might have a chance for something. But after Three's total crash I don't anymore. Three had better writing.
Posted by Dirk Hairychest (Member # 10105) on :
I did it! I finished and submitted my story just at the deadline. Whew! It is the first story i ever submitted anywhere ever. Awesome!
Posted by axeminister (Member # 8991) on :
Congrats Dirk!
My very first sub was to WotF, too.
Hope you do better than my HM. Ha!
Axe
Posted by Tim (Member # 9989) on :
Apparently, rejections are already going out for this quarter. Looks like they're pushing for an April publication for V. 30.
I haven't heard anything...yet. Hope everyone else is still in the running!
Tim
Posted by History (Member # 9213) on :
This is true.
Ms Labaqui informed me they wish to have the anthology in print in April with the Gala. They plan to have results for Q4 finished in mid December and the announcement of any non-winning "fillers" for the volume decided by Christmas.
Respectfully, Dr. Bob
Posted by LDWriter2 (Member # 9148) on :
Well, that was an unexpected shock.
Nothing for my Q4 story.
My two best stories and zero for me for both--that's third and fourth quarters.
No matter what two people have stated--one being an editor--there is no evidence I am getting better.
Posted by History (Member # 9213) on :
Keep with it LD. I note on the WOTF forum, you have been published in Strange New Worlds 10. You must have done something right.
Posted by LDWriter2 (Member # 9148) on :
Thank you for the comment.
quote:Originally posted by History: Keep with it LD. I note on the WOTF forum, you have been published in Strange New Worlds 10. You must have done something right.
For a very short period of time I did something right--what six or more years ago.
My first HM at WotF came out of the batch of stories I did around that time, as did another two or three other HMs, later I received a personal note from JJA on one of those and another story sent to SNW was good enough to get in but they could only take one story at a time. Then I forgot how to write, or lost my voice or something because it's been nothing since. Well, can't say nothing but very little. One story made it to the last round for one e-zine--New Myth maybe--and I got one HM for a mini contest at onthepremises.com, one last HM from WotF. Nothing else has been even close. Still stuck on barely good at the best like I have been for five years.
Posted by snapper (Member # 7299) on :
How did get such privledged informationlike that, Doctor Bob? Have you received another finalist notification? Or do you and Ms Joni just keep in touch to chew the fat on a regular basis?
curious.
Posted by LDWriter2 (Member # 9148) on :
Hmm, maybe I am doing something right after all-I received the same privileged info.
It could be my charm.
It was stated on my rejection.
So obviously something not right enough.
[ November 01, 2013, 12:35 AM: Message edited by: LDWriter2 ]
Posted by RyanB (Member # 10008) on :
quote:Originally posted by LDWriter2: My first HM at WotF came out of the batch of stories I did around that time, as did another two or three other HMs, later I received a personal note from JJA on one of those and another story sent to SNW was good enough to get in but they could only take one story at a time. Then I forgot how to write, or lost my voice or something because it's been nothing since. Well, can't say nothing but very little. One story made it to the last round for one e-zine--New Myth maybe--and I got one HM for a mini contest at onthepremises.com, one last HM from WotF. Nothing else has been even close. Still stuck on barely good at the best like I have been for five years.
DF did a Kick a while back about why some writers never make it. It was something along the lines of "some people will never make it because A or B or C or D." I think David was wrong. If I thought he was right I wouldn't be writing this post.
If someone with ASD who never learned to understand human facial expressions can learn facial expressions (with a lot of work) once they understand that's something to be learned, I think a person can learn any aspect of writing. It's just harder for some people.
I'm going to digress for a minute. Stay with me. I just heard Jim Butcher give some writing advice. He said to always be writing. When you finish a piece, put it out of your head and start working on the next piece. Do this again and again and again until you find success. (I'm paraphrasing.)
This is terrible advice.
Perhaps it works for some people, but if you've been doing this for umpteen years and you haven't made any progress ... Butcher might as well be prescribing small, consistent doses of arsenic.
They are only a few things you need to learn to be a writer: plot, character, style and audience. But these things are complex, nuanced and you need to know them well enough to look at a work (even your own work) and determine where it succeeds and fails on each of these points.
Some people understand 1 or more of these aspects implicitly, the way most people understand facial expressions without knowing the details of why. If you aren't that lucky you have to learn them the hard way.
And I don't think you can learn style (for example) by writing and writing if don't understand style. You've got to pick style apart and learn the thousands of rules that govern style. And you have to keep picking at style until you can reliably look at your own work and see the problems with style.
Posted by History (Member # 9213) on :
quote:Originally posted by LDWriter2: Thank you for the comment.
quote:Originally posted by History: Keep with it LD. I note on the WOTF forum, you have been published in Strange New Worlds 10. You must have done something right.
For a very short period of time I did something right--what six or more years ago.
My first HM at WotF came out of the batch of stories I did around that time, as did another two or three other HMs, later I received a personal note from JJA on one of those and another story sent to SNW was good enough to get in but they could only take one story at a time. Then I forgot how to write, or lost my voice or something because it's been nothing since. Well, can't say nothing but very little. One story made it to the last round for one e-zine--New Myth maybe--and I got one HM for a mini contest at onthepremises.com, one last HM from WotF. Nothing else has been even close. Still stuck on barely good at the best like I have been for five years.
LD, My first two pieces of short (flash) fiction (after completing my The Kabbalist novel) sold in 2010 in a mere matter of days to the first venue I submitted them. I thought, "That was easy." Haven't sold a thing since.
Success breeds...the expectation for success. However, when one then learns how fickle success can be, this can naturally lead to self-doubt and frustration, even despair. Don't let it.
What you decry in self-flagellation is what I've also heard from both established authors and pro-publishing WOTF winners with whom I correspond.
Don't be duped by success or the vagaries of the subjective tastes of the market (esp. slushpile readers--many of whom I believe are younger in age than some of my jackets and shirts, though this may suggest I need buy new clothes).
We all desire a readership, and many may desire to make writing a paying career. However, I still believe we should write because this is what we do--and enjoy. If a tree falls in the woods, it still makes a sound even if no one hears it. Though I suspect this may not be comforting if one believes "the sale" alone proves you are an artist.
Keep writing what brings you pleasure.
Respectfully, Dr. Bob
Posted by History (Member # 9213) on :
quote:Originally posted by snapper: How did get such privledged informationlike that, Doctor Bob? Have you received another finalist notification? Or do you and Ms Joni just keep in touch to chew the fat on a regular basis?
curious.
She said she likes me better than you. . . . . . okay, no she didn't
She's kind. I corresponded with her and asked when a decison will be made regarding when or if any (of the very many) non-winning Finalist stories she's holding will be chosen as a filler for Vol. 30 (yours and mine have been held for nearly a year, I believe; and they're getting dusty).
She kindly answered and provided the information I shared above.
Respectfully, Dr. Bob
Posted by History (Member # 9213) on :
quote:Originally posted by RyanB: [...And I don't think you can learn style (for example) by writing and writing if don't understand style. You've got to pick style apart and learn the thousands of rules that govern style. And you have to keep picking at style until you can reliably look at your own work and see the problems with style.
Sometimes I thinks and writes, but mostly I just writes. Posted by RyanB (Member # 10008) on :
quote:Originally posted by History:
quote:Originally posted by RyanB: [...And I don't think you can learn style (for example) by writing and writing if don't understand style. You've got to pick style apart and learn the thousands of rules that govern style. And you have to keep picking at style until you can reliably look at your own work and see the problems with style.
Sometimes I thinks and writes, but mostly I just writes.
That's a good approach, but when you get done writing (the first draft) you should read what you've written and think.
Posted by History (Member # 9213) on :
quote:Originally posted by RyanB: That's a good approach, but when you get done writing (the first draft) you should read what you've written and think.
Different puppy. I do outline and revise, for example (exponentially far more than Heilein's "Third Rule of Writing" recommends); but I do not obsess (or recommend) "pick(ing) style apart and learn(ing) the thousands of rules that govern style", etc. At least it is not a method for me. If it is for you, well, G-d bless. Go for it.
I "picked" apart a frog in biology lab (and a human being in anatomy lab, ftm) and learned all their internal parts and how they fit together. However I knew, even then, that this would not permit me to create a frog or a human being nor would it permit me to grasp the wonder and beauty of what they were when living.
quote:Originally posted by History: but I do not obsess (or recommend) "pick(ing) style apart and learn(ing) the thousands of rules that govern style", etc. At least it is not a method for me. If it is for you, well, G-d bless. Go for it.
Some context has been lost here.
I've read just one of your works and that was enough for me to confidently say that you "understand" style and there's no reason for you pick apart style any more than I need to pick apart the combinations of facial muscle movements that mean someone was suspicious of something I just said.
I'm talking about the person (BTW, this is absolutely NOT about you, Louis) that's written dozens of stories that fail on style and they don't know their stories are failing on style, much less why.
What do you suggest that person should do? stay confident and just keep writing?
Posted by History (Member # 9213) on :
Point taken, RyanB. And your question is poignant. Can "style" be taught?
Here I need concede that one can practice emulating style. Perhaps all tyro writers are inspired to do so.
I first began (as a middle-schooler) seeking to emulate Ray Bradbury whose "style" amazed me. The young H.P. Lovecraft sought to emulate Lord Dunsany, and many authors inturn sought to emulate HPL. Many emulated Robert E Howard's sword and sorcery stories (e.g. Conan), and others the epic fantasy of JRR Tolkien. And many have had professional success in this and continued from there to evolve their own personal "style" (e.g. Fritz Leiber, Michael Moorcock, Brian Lumley, Ramsey Campbell, Stephen Donaldson, etc. etc.).
I think genre reading in the field you wish to write is the best school. There I concur one should "pick" what one fines most inspiring. I aspire to the literary gift with words and command of language of Michael Chabon and Mark Helprin (I've a long way to go) but love the simple tales of wonder of the classic fantasists with my own love of history, society/culture, religion, and ethics.
What textbook can teach this?
Of course, on reflection, you may mean the "elements of style" in regard to the mechamics of grammar and sentence crafting--and all I've shared in the preceding is completely off-base. And I'd need apologize and concur with you completelt that, in this circumstance, studying Strunk and White or other texts ] http://www.amazon.com/The-Elements-Style-Fourth-Edition/dp/020530902X ] on the subject is a must.
It may be I am mixing Style with Voice, and this is where my confusion lies. But I am not alone, it seems (though even these definitions appear loosely connected to the "style" discussed in Strunk and White):
Respectfully, Dr. Bob
Posted by RyanB (Member # 10008) on :
I'm using the word "style" very broadly. DF said that some people have a "wooden ear."
It's hard to describe. Why are some (grammatically correct) formations of words enjoyable and others aren't? Why are some faces deemed attractive and others aren't?
Most people just know it when they see it (or hear it).
But there are "rules" governing these things, as complex and nuanced as they are, and most of us have them internalized in our brains somehow. We learned them in our formative years from the people we grew up with or got them with our DNA.
I might have went off the tracks there.
I think the facial expression analogy is a good one. I didn't even know until recently there were people who couldn't read facial expressions and then even later that some learn this later in life. It must be incredibly difficult. And yet most of us were pretty good at it by the time we were 4 years old. Of course, we never stop learning it either.
Since these things are so complex, we tend to thing of them as "something you have or you don't." And yet, all of this processing goes on in your brain and thus it must consist of "rules."
And people can learn them by processes other than the intuitive one the rest of us used.
Posted by extrinsic (Member # 8019) on :
Style, what is this ungainly beast? Mechanical style is a compilation of the standardized mannerisms and principles of a language's spoken or written expression so that listening or speaking, reading or writing, or otherwise expressed communication is easily understood.
Many writers and readers mean mechanical style when they say "style."
What then is a common consensus term for the artistic flair for using language? Broadly, discourse is the overarching method respecting decorum: suiting one's words to the subject matter and to each other, the opportune occasion, and the audience. That's too broad of a definition and term for many sensibilities.
What then might be closer to the mark? Aesthetic? That one works for me. Although "aesthetic" may be equally overly broad, since aesthetic might include individualized choice of genre, event, character, setting, milieu as well as a narrator or character voice's discourse, narrative point of view, message and moral, belief and value system, ad infintum.
In simple terms, an aesthetic is the sum of self-imposed artistic choices a writer decides and applies. Structural considerations, beginning with mechanical style but also organizing principles like plot, are parallel to but distinct from aesthetics.
Posted by LDWriter2 (Member # 9148) on :
quote:Originally posted by History:
My first two pieces of short (flash) fiction (after completing my The Kabbalist novel) sold in 2010 in a mere matter of days to the first venue I submitted them. I thought, "That was easy." Haven't sold a thing since.
Success breeds...the expectation for success. However, when one then learns how fickle success can be, this can naturally lead to self-doubt and frustration, even despair. Don't let it.
What you decry in self-flagellation is what I've also heard from both established authors and pro-publishing WOTF winners with whom I correspond.
Don't be duped by success or the vagaries of the subjective tastes of the market (esp. slushpile readers--many of whom I believe are younger in age than some of my jackets and shirts, though this may suggest I need buy new clothes).
We all desire a readership, and many may desire to make writing a paying career. However, I still believe we should write because this is what we do--and enjoy. If a tree falls in the woods, it still makes a sound even if no one hears it. Though I suspect this may not be comforting if one believes "the sale" alone proves you are an artist.
Keep writing what brings you pleasure.
Respectfully, Dr. Bob [/QB]
I realized I never responded to this note, even though I wanted to.
You do have a point but at the same time I'm not sure if it changes things that much. The end result is still the same. No sign of any improvement in my writing.
Actually, even though a sale would be great what want more is-as I just said-some sign that I am getting better. If David at WotF had given my last story a HM, that would not have been so disappointing. Or if they guys at F&SF would send me the third level rejection, or better still a personal note, instead of saying my story couldn't grab their attentions most of the time, I wouldn't feel so bad.
One or two critiguers have stated they thought that story they did was one of my better ones but other than that there is no evidence I am writing better. Which is why I keep saying I am stuck on the same level, maybe at the bottom of good probably just on the border between good and the level below it.
Posted by snapper (Member # 7299) on :
So did anyone receive bad news this week? Are we all still alive? Good.
Posted by snapper (Member # 7299) on :
So did anyone receive bad news this week? Are we all still alive? Good.
Posted by RyanB (Member # 10008) on :
I got a rejection, which was what I was expecting.
Posted by History (Member # 9213) on :
I believe the submissions are read in order of receipt. Since my Q4 submission was in the 11th hour, I do not believe the fact that my story has yet to be rejected can be presumed as evidence that it will not.
Respectfully, Dr.Bob
Posted by LDWriter2 (Member # 9148) on :
Evidently those over on the WotF forum believe that they aren't read in order of receipt.
One person mentioned sending it in at the last moment but yet received their rejection already.
I know I did not send in mine first but my rejection came in the first batch. A total not good surprise. Of course a total rejection even though I thought-hoped the story was bit better than that.
Posted by JenniferHicks (Member # 8201) on :
OTOH, it's commonly thought that the paper submissions are read last. Which is probably the only reason why I'm still in it at this point. DW hasn't gotten to mine yet.
Posted by LDWriter2 (Member # 9148) on :
Well, another rejection for my Q4 story.
Don't know if IGMS has any other form rejections, like a few markets have but I've never seen one nor heard-read anyone getting one, so I don't know for sure if they read the whole thing or stopped at the opening but I doubt they did read the whole thing.
So another complete dud even though I would have said otherwise.
Posted by snapper (Member # 7299) on :
Louis, you sound like you're taking this really hard. Tell you what,I'll make you an offer.
Send it to me. I've slushed for a major pro anthology and I'm now serving as a full time judge for OTP. I'll look at your piece and tell you how I would have received it if I were the coordinating judge.
I don't profess to have all the answers but I will tell you this; since DW has taken over I'm batting a thousand in the honors department. Other than my one finalist I've gotten straight HM's from him. I seem to have a pretty good notion on what impresses the man (watch, I probably just jinxed myself now).
I can be very blunt (just ask axe) or I can just tell you if the opening is good enough to keep my attention or not, it's up to you.
If you want answers, I'll give you some.
Posted by LDWriter2 (Member # 9148) on :
quote:Originally posted by snapper: Louis, you sound like you're taking this really hard. Tell you what,I'll make you an offer......
Send it to me. I've slushed for a major pro anthology and I'm now serving as a full time judge for OTP. I'll look at your piece and tell you how I would have received it if I were the coordinating judge.
Thank you and I will but I just realized something. I had it mixed up in my head, it's my Q3 story that was rejected by IGMS not Q4. Which actually makes me feel worse because I think Q3 is better than Q4. I may know what is wrong with Q4--well, one thing. But it's the Q3 that got a total reject not only from Dave but from--I think-- Stephen at F&SF and now IGMS. A third level rejection from Stephen would not have been so bad but not even that.
Posted by History (Member # 9213) on :
Knowing the odds are so overwhelmingly against submitters, whether for WOTF (thousands of entries for 8 Finalist positions and only 3 winners--i.e. 0.3% or less chance of publication) or for publication in a pro journal, I am now never surprised at receipt of a rejection (even if it feels someone is saying my child is ugly).
I suspect if I ever receive a story contract, my surprise will be akin to seeing the sun at midnight (and it's too much of a schlepp to travel to the Arctic in summer).
My Q3 HM entry, Lirazel's Heart, bounced back from BCS with, for me, the frequent editorial "...it's not quite right for us." Asst. editor Ms Kate Marshall continued kindly with helpful specifics: " Although I enjoyed the descriptions of Lirazel's workings, and Astolfo was an interesting character, the tale didn't quite come together for me. The passages of backstory didn't engage me as strongly as I was looking for; I wished there were greater tension and direction to the tale before the lengthy exposition/storytelling."
Yet a small press specialty printer, Pegana Press , from whom I've purchased beautiful small collectors' items asked to the read the tale and kindly commented: "Rita read Lirazel's Heart out loud the other night and what a truly marvelous story it is. I can't say enough about it! It has left a lasting impression on my heart and mind so thank you for touching us with your story. The glimpses into the world you speak of are very tantalizing, are you going to return there for another tale? I hope so; it seems rich in untold stories and possibilities. I'm reminded of the film Hugo, not so much because of the automaton although that leads to the remembrance, but its pathos and warming of the soul are the same."
Who is correct?
I need surmise that Ms Marshall is correct, from her position and expertise as a pro-level SFWA-approved magazine editor.
Readers, I find, tend to be less critical, at least my readers--except for Matt leo and Nick Tchan. I need more like them, perhaps.
And yet...it is readers I most wish to please (beyond myself). Perhaps writing "good" but not "good enough" is where I need be content (for now).
Louis, you've been one of the most dedicated and persistent writers in churning out stories I've observed in my few years at Hatrack. If your goal is to be traditionally published, and you feel stuck in a rut, I will suggest you consider courses/workshops in fiction-writing to help you up your game. If your goal is to enjoy writing ang get your work seen, why not continue to self-pub, even for free, and get reader feed back directly?
Good Shabbos.
Respectfully, Dr. Bob
Posted by JenniferHicks (Member # 8201) on :
quote:Originally posted by LDWriter2: Well, another rejection for my Q4 story.
Don't know if IGMS has any other form rejections, like a few markets have but I've never seen one nor heard-read anyone getting one, so I don't know for sure if they read the whole thing or stopped at the opening but I doubt they did read the whole thing.
So another complete dud even though I would have said otherwise.
Bob said a lot of what I might have. Don't be so hard on yourself. Rejection is the norm in this business. You absolutely should not declare a story a dud after two or three no's. My best acceptance to date, to a pro market, was on that story's 15th submission. Most of the previous submissions on that story resulted in bottom-tier form rejections. I've heard about stories that sold after their 20th or 25th submission. No two editors are going to think alike. So don't give up just because your story wasn't what one particular editor was looking for.
Posted by LDWriter2 (Member # 9148) on :
Thank you Dr. Bob and Jennifer for your comments,
But after six years it's more than just the norm in this business--there is more to that on my post in the "How do you know if your writing is any good?" forum. I've been stuck on the what I hope is the good side of mediocre for years. I have taken workshops and read books and posts like Dave Farland's Daily Kick in the Pants. I have been told I am improving by Dean Wesley Smith and couple around here but I see no other evidence of it. Dean seems to be the only editor who likes my writing. But small improvements hasn't cut it yet.
If I had gotten a HM from Dave for this story I would feel half as bad but as in the case of F&SF "Couldn't grab my interest" and I am assuming the same for IGMS what I think of as my best writing can't get even to the second stage--the editor reading the whole thing.
As to it being a dud, that is why I think that along with the history for my stories. If these editors don't even sort of like it there's nothing to say anyone else will.
Dr. Bob, I've never gotten that type of comment from Ms Marshal at BCS, this one won't either because it's not their type of story and there are very few other markets that send out personal comments on a regular bases.
I will send it out again even though I am not sure where. I can only think of one or two other markets that take Urban Fantasy. Lightspeed might when they open on Jan. if it's not too long for JJA-I need to double check that.
As to putting it up somewhere for reader feedback. I can, I have enough experience with that type of thing to know some readers will like it but for anything critical--I mean that in a good way--I can ask for readers here.
Came back to say it's 200 and some words over for Lightspeed's top word count. But they liked shorter stories. So looks like I will send it to Buzzy Mag next. I forget if they send out a personal notes too.
[ November 24, 2013, 12:00 AM: Message edited by: LDWriter2 ]
Posted by LDWriter2 (Member # 9148) on :
Well, found out what was wrong with my Story. It was significantly worse than even I thought it was going to be.
Back to the drawing board even though that won't help much.
[ November 25, 2013, 11:49 PM: Message edited by: LDWriter2 ]
Posted by snapper (Member # 7299) on :
Louis,
I certainly can understand why you're disappointed and see why you feel as if your spinning your wheels in the mud. 6 Years is a lot of commitment when you have little to show for it, but you're not unique. Doubt is the greatest enemy to an aspiring writer, just ask Brad Torgenson. He wrote and submitted for a decade and a half without a single acceptance. He attended workshops, went to writer conventions, and rubbed elbows with more writers than I read in my life. It didn't seem to matter one bit. He almost gave up - more than once - but he had a better half that believed in him and gave him enough encouragement to keep trying. it was around his tenth year at trying when he started to get encouraging notes from editors attached to his rejections. They still weren't buying his work but they let him know his work was catching their attention.
His WotF winning story was his first sale, Since then, the flood gates have opened wide for him - runner ups in the Campbell and Hugo awards, multiple sales to high end publishers, collaborative projects with Mike Resnick and Larry Niven. He did it by sheer will and peserverance. As far as Brad is concerned, 6 years is a halfway point.
Chin up, Bud. (Cliche alert) because it is always darkest before dawn.
Posted by LDWriter2 (Member # 9148) on :
quote:Originally posted by snapper: Louis,
I certainly can understand why you're disappointed and see why you feel as if your spinning your wheels in the mud. 6 Years is a lot of commitment when you have little to show for it, but you're not unique. Doubt is the greatest enemy to an aspiring writer, just ask Brad Torgenson. He wrote and submitted for a decade and a half without a single acceptance. He attended workshops, went to writer conventions, and rubbed elbows with more writers than I read in my life. It didn't seem to matter one bit. He almost gave up - more than once - but he had a better half that believed in him and gave him enough encouragement to keep trying. it was around his tenth year at trying when he started to get encouraging notes from editors attached to his rejections. They still weren't buying his work but they let him know his work was catching their attention.
His WotF winning story was his first sale, Since then, the flood gates have opened wide for him - runner ups in the Campbell and Hugo awards, multiple sales to high end publishers, collaborative projects with Mike Resnick and Larry Niven. He did it by sheer will and peserverance. As far as Brad is concerned, 6 years is a halfway point.
Chin up, Bud. (Cliche alert) because it is always darkest before dawn.
Thank you for that.
But it's especially hard when all the evidence points to not even improving. Even the places like BCS which always send out comments it's all more on the negative side than positive and encouraging, even crits from fellow writers are the same.
Posted by mbwood (Member # 9525) on :
Louis;
By now, you know the world isn't fair, but you also know you must 'soldier on' anyway (cliche alert). Remember, the better your writing gets, the more the critiquers focus upon the story line. As for the mechanical errors, find a good first reader to help you with such items.
I've been writing for almost twenty-five years (and have some professional writing experience). I've been told by Steve Saffel that my writing is 'almost there.' Of course that isn't good enough to get published. Recently Jack McDevitt told me that my writing was at a professional level. That still doesn't get me published.
There is an element of luck in getting published: Sending out the right piece at the right time. If it isn't what the publisher is looking for, it gets the rejection slip. Tales abound of writers sending out the same piece time and again before it gets picked up to become a best-seller. Go figure.
Writing is a lonely activity. There are times when you need contact with other writers to get assurance that what you are doing is noble and worthwhile. So, remember the first rule of writing... Write!
Keep sending your stories out. Send them to me. I'll critique them as honestly as I can. Maybe that'll help.
mbwood
p.s. I got rejected for 2013 Q4, too.
Posted by Kathleen Dalton Woodbury (Member # 59) on :
I believe I remember hearing that Louis had some things published a while back, so the frustrating thing may be that he can't seem to get published any more.
It's one thing to still have the publishing goal ahead of you, but it's another to have hit the goal and then not be able to hit it again.
If I am remembering correctly, then, Louis, please remember that things are always changing. Your past sales were not flukes. They were the right stories at the right times to the right editors. And that kind of thing can happen again, if you don't quit.
Just as other things change, be sure that you are changing as well. Let people here help you figure out how to best expend your efforts toward the right kinds of change.
I hope that helps.
Posted by LDWriter2 (Member # 9148) on :
I appreciate the comments
But it's been over six years since my one sale. Plus one non-paid HM posted on the ontheprimies.com fairly recently.
Since the sale, there's been very little that show's anything. During the time I wrote that one story I did better--three of those stories would become WotF HMs---but as I said since very little. I wonder if while trying to improve I tried too hard to do what I thought editors wanted and lost my voice but I don't know and neither do I know if there is anyway to check if that is true.
If it is a case of right stories at the right time, I have been very unlucky for those years always sending in the wrong story. But I would think there would be some sign that my writing was up to par even so.
Only comment I have received, not counting from markets like BCS, was one by either Stephen of Scott P. over at F&SF. That comment did not encourage. At first I thought it was his first thought about my opening. It must have struck hard enough-not in a good way-to want to say something about it. But I later wonder if that was his way of trying to tell me what was wrong with the opening. Still not for a positive reason.
I've been told be a couple of people I am improving...even in one online workshop Dean Wesley Smith aid I was, he has read quite a few of my stories but he seems to be the only editor who thinks anything good about my writing.
I am repeating some of this but now I find the story I think of as my best is so full of obvious defects that the writing probably wouldn't even be considered good.
Some of what I am feeling was expressed in my post Here You will have scroll to find my post toward the end.
Be nice if Ms Williams over at Asimov's would think my latest story there was better. She in one of the few editors that have read enough of my stories to know. If she got past my openings which is debatable. The person over at IGMS has read a few and maybe at BCS too. At least she read the whole story even though she doesn't have much positive to say either. Can't think of her name off hand. She even rejected what I think of one of my small group of second best writings. I forget what she said about it.
Posted by History (Member # 9213) on :
What I think you need consider, Louis, is that your circumstance is the norm and not aberrant.
Rejection is the natural state for writers. Selling a story is what is uncommon.
And only a few among those who persevere may, with time and experience, discover a particular market that adopts them (e.g. Brad T and Analog).
Writing is not an endeavor for the weak of will. Write because you enjoy it. Self-pub what doesn't sell traditionally if you desire this affirmation, Then write some more. Enjoy the challenge. Have fun.
Happy Thanksgivvkah!
Respectfully, Dr. Bob (who, despite some wonderful comments, has not sold a single thing since my first two flash pieces in 2010)
Posted by LDWriter2 (Member # 9148) on :
I will keep writing. learning and sending them in
Even though strike two on this-my best-story shows I don't know how to write. Anyone want to give it a third strike?
Have a blessedfull Hunukkah Dr. Bob and the other Jewish hatracker--if you are still around.
Posted by LDWriter2 (Member # 9148) on :
I thought about this later--offline.
Self-pub is what my writing is good for right now.
Oh and back with the sale. It wasn't just one. Two stories had good enough writing to sale. The second was rejected for other reasons. And one story was close and as I said three WotF HMs came out of those.One being my first HM. My writing still needed help but the HMs showed I was improving and headed in the right direction. Now I can't even get off the ground. I may still be headed in the right direction but so slow I could get out and walk faster.
Posted by Kathleen Dalton Woodbury (Member # 59) on :
Something to consider in relation to all of this.
Posted by LDWriter2 (Member # 9148) on :
Kathleen....Indeed.
Except I have been at the a while, I'm not a beginner.
But I am calming down, doesn't do my emotions any good to be hit by two hard hits. One was the original compliant about the story not even doing a little good and the second was what Frank said about the writing I knew it was bad but Triple yikes, wow talk about major issues. And evidently a second story he looked at was as bad even though it didn't have two of the problems the first story did.
I'm working on my Q1 story with that in mind. I'm trying to get it done by the 9th because I may have someone to go over it to hopefully check for grammar and typos and wrong words.
Frank might go over it for other things. But I'm not sure I have time to fix everything he finds if he does look it over.
Posted by JenniferHicks (Member # 8201) on :
FYI, a smattering of HMs seem to be going out.
Posted by History (Member # 9213) on :
quote:Originally posted by JenniferHicks: FYI, a smattering of HMs seem to be going out.
Ah, yes. Got mine this evening. I seem to be collecting them. I'm not surprised for this particular entry, which was a PG version of The Witch's Curse [ http://www.hatrack.com/ubb/writers/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=11;t=004560#000000 ]. Oddly, this comes as a relief since I prefer the R-rated version of the story. Not sure where to send this odd duck next, though.
My best wishes to all those still waiting.
Respectfully, Dr. Bob
Posted by JenniferHicks (Member # 8201) on :
Congrats, Bob!
I got a straight rejection. The past three quarters for me go: rejection, finalist, rejection. Ha! I can't help but laugh at this crazy contest.
Posted by snapper (Member # 7299) on :
It took years but I have finally run the cycle.
Semi-finalist.
Posted by RyanB (Member # 10008) on :
quote:Originally posted by snapper: It took years but I have finally run the cycle.
Semi-finalist.
Congrats. Congrats to Bob as well and any other placers I've missed.
Posted by JenniferHicks (Member # 8201) on :
quote:Originally posted by snapper: It took years but I have finally run the cycle.
Semi-finalist.
Congrats! And welcome to the club. There can't be too many of us who have done everything but win. I know you had hopes for this quarter's story. You'll get 'em next time.
Posted by Tim (Member # 9989) on :
Congratulations to Dr. Bob and Snapper. Hopefully there were some other placings from this group that haven't chimed in yet.
I was hit with a rejection in the last wave. I felt my story only had a ceiling of an HM, though.
Can't get any worse, I guess.
On to the next quarter!
-Tim
Posted by A Yeatts (Member # 9500) on :
Honorable Mention again for me. Congrats to snapper and Dr Bob!
Posted by snapper (Member # 7299) on :
I received my critique for my Q4 semi-finalist from Dave Wolverton today. He had some very nice words for it, saying he liked it a lot and stressed that it was very close to being a finalist. He did give me his reasons why it wasn't chosen and offered some unique insights to what does make a finalist. Allow me to share it with the rest of you.
quote:I look for two things in a story: 1) a great concept, 2) beautiful execution. For me, while this was thoroughly professional, I kept looking at the use of metaphor and similes, at poetic elements, and wishing that it were just a little better. We had some real wordsmiths this quarter, and ultimately as I narrowed the finalists down, I set this one aside.
Posted by LDWriter2 (Member # 9148) on :
Very nice and must feel good.
Can I be jealous now? Posted by snapper (Member # 7299) on :
You can be, if you like, LD. I would like to point out that almost doesn't count. Still on the outside looking in.
Posted by LDWriter2 (Member # 9148) on :
Yes, I realize this. Maybe half jealous in that case.
But my comment was more to the fact that you got a crit from a famous writer.
No reason to think I will be getting one anytime soon.
![[Wink]](wink.gif)
Thanks.![[Smile]](smile.gif)
But all is back in order at my house, and I'm ready for a great round of stories this quarter. So let's get cracking!
![[Embarrassed]](redface.gif)