I'm getting really tired of my male friends asking how many coeds I've "boffed" this week. This is mostly coming from married men in their late 30's and mid-40's. My general age group, ya know.
I figured it was just "guy talk" at first. But these are people who are generally sensible and fairly profound thinkers in other aspects of life. But now that I'm divorced, I seem to be letting them down as a source of vicarious thrills.
I mean, really, do they think that if they found themselves suddenly single, they would want to start dating teenagers? Setting aside the issue of whether teenagers would want to date them, of course.
And it isn't even really dating they are concerned with. It's more like a series of one-night stands and keeping score. Like pubescent boys. Ugh! I didn't care for the attitude then, and it sure is weird to hear it now from married men with families.
It's not like any of them are eager to trade places with me, thank God. I believe they love their wives and are committed to being good fathers & husbands.
Maybe they're just masking their own discomfort and talking to single guys about their sex life is the equivalent of talking about the weather. Could they really have nothing else to say to someone they've known for years?
Oh, and what's with the assumption that I couldn't possibly have a female friend without also having a sexual relationship with her? That one really bugs me. If you think about it, the assumption is very disrespectful to both parties and could do serious damage to either the guy's or the woman's reputation, or both.
If, for example, I was interested in dating again (timer hasn't run down yet...) the assumption that I was sleeping with every female I could get my hands on would certainly have a chilling effect on my ability to meet and build a relationship with someone I was interested in...wouldn't it? I mean, how many women out there want to be thought of as the next conquest?
The alternative seems to be to have no friends of the opposite sex, and that's sort of an empty existence, isn't it? But that would be the level of "purity" I would have to maintain in order to avoid the assumption that I'm sleeping with every female I'm left alone with.
And then if you go too far with that, people probably assume you are gay. And I can assure you that I'm far too old to switch teams at this point. Plus, gay men no longer find me attractive.
And if people started thinking I was gay, I'd have to stop having ANYONE over to my house for fear of damaging all of our reputations. At least I couldn't have one person at a time over to the house.
But then what? If I start having groups over are people going to assume we're having orgies? And then be offended if they aren't invited?
I'm betting most divorced guys go through this. I only know one guy who turned into the stereotypical "sex machine" after his divorce. He was was kind of a creep, if you ask me. College Prof hitting on students. That kind of thing. And not all that ethical in his business practices either. But that's a whole other story.
Anyway, I'd appreciate some comments on this. Should I even worry what other people think? I'm figuring some of the people holding this opinion are the ones who might ultimately turn me down if/when I decide to start dating again.
posted
Rather than you doing the divorce thing wrong, it's possible that every other divorced friend these guys have (or every divorced man they've seen on TV) did. Maybe those friends all left their wives because they wanted to boff coeds (and then <expletive> them). Maybe the only reason for divorcing that these friends of yours can fathom is sexual problems. Maybe they're trying not to get thrills vicariously through you, but subconsciously trying to work through problems in their own marriages (never took psych, but that sounds 101-ish). Perhaps they're just selling you short as a person.
However, I really think it's more likely that they have no idea how to talk to you about it, and so they're distancing themselves by making jokes. I know when my engagement was broken off long ago, my family was on eggshells for weeks, because they didn't know what to say, so they basically said nothing. That's one response. Another is to joke about it. It's a dilemma they have -- treating you as they always have could seem to you as though they think of the divorce as unimportant, but belittling your situation through crass humor isn't the best choice, either. Another possibility, I suppose, is that they think you need to talk about stuff, and they're trying (via a ridiculously juvenile method) to get you to open up. I really have no idea, as (a) I don't know these friends, and (b) I'd hope I wouldn't approach the topic that way, so I'm only guessing others would.
Give them some time, react with distaste at their assumptions rather than anger, and they'll pick up on the fact that you're still an adult. Then maybe they'll remember to be adults, too.
posted
Being single leaves you open to rampant speculation about your sex life. That, you’re going to have to take as a given. Don’t worry too much about your reputation – just continue to act according to your own standards of integrity.
It stinks that this is coming from friends, though. Papa Moose is likely right that they don’t know what to say and are taking refuge in (supposed) humor. Is there a way you could say to them “Look guys, I’m not interested in screwing teenagers. Drop it, please.”?
Posts: 9866 | Registered: Apr 2002
| IP: Logged |
I think Moose probably is right -- it's just transitory and due to the awkwardness of the situation.
I should stop being angry about it and just nip it in the bud. Should've done that sooner.
dkw, I think for most of these guys I could just quote your suggestion directly and it would work out just fine. There's one guy who seems to want to argue the point with me. Delusions of what he would do if he were in this situation -- regardless of the fact that he'd just be devastated having lost his wife and family...
Oh well...anyway, it would work well with the others, I think.
posted
Of course, should you find that there seem to be an unusually high number of young, virile college girls throwing themselves at you, be a pal and let the rest of us know what it is you're doing right, would ya?
Posts: 3243 | Registered: Apr 2002
| IP: Logged |
posted
Bob, next time some guy asks you how many teen age coeds you've boffed, answer, "Not that many I find them a bit too old and jaded. What's your son doing this evening."
posted
Yes, being single does seem to let some people feel they should speculate about your sex life. People have asked if I was gay before, one guy who was teaching a class in Michigan I attended wanted to be sure I had someone to sleep with while I was in town, as though sex were like a rental car or hot water or some other commodity that no visitor would want to be without. He was just looking out for his guests. <laughs> Another time on a first date the hostess of the party we attended (his friend) assumed we were sleeping together and offered to let us stay the night so we didn't have to drive home.
It's actually one thing I love about being LDS. It sort of answers that question before it's asked. There is no assumption that you are having all the extramarital sex you possibly can manage.
I had another friend say (about possible dates) that if they aren't married by the time they're 30 then you know there must be something wrong with them. I supposed if they had married and divorced two or three times, it would be much more reassuring to her. (I don't know if her remarks were supposed to be obviously intended to apply to men only, or whether she just didn't think before she said that, or what.)
Anyway, yeah, it's funny. I just blink and act like I don't know what they mean.
Posts: 5509 | Registered: May 1999
| IP: Logged |
posted
I'm starting to think that my scheme of a quick marriage followed by divorce to increase my chances of "getting lucky" may not be such a good idea.
All kidding aside, I think in large part they're saying these things to psyche you up. You're single! You can do anything, be young again, you're not tied to one woman any more. It may be misguided, but I think it's an honest attempt to boost your ego. Hopefully encourage you to go out and meet new people and find "happiness".
I can't think of any way to say this without it sounding hopelessly shallow (which, upon closer inspection, it probably is) but I'm going to hope that you understand what I'm getting at. Largely I suppose I'm saying pretty much the same thing as the Wise Moose over there. They're floundering for something to say, they no longer know how to treat you. Nothing seems to make a man more uncomfortable than trying to find the honest words to make another man feel better. Laughter has always been a great way to keep people at a distance while still keeping them close.
Anyway, rambling. See? Man trying to make another man comfortable. (note the joke at the beginning )
Posts: 3243 | Registered: Apr 2002
| IP: Logged |
posted
How about varying percentages of just kidding and pure nervousness, depending on how well they know you? Humor is often a way of dealing with fear.
Married women are often discomforted by newly divorced female friends, which often enough leads to an unstated shunning. Why should a divorced man not experience something similar from their married male friends? At least if your taste was for coeds -- or you were even semi-seriously paired up -- they wouldn't hafta worry about having their wives seduced by VinnieBobarino.
Frankly, I haven't a clue as to the ratio of "Oh my God, I'm lucky!" to "I'm worth it!" you felt when you were chosen by your ex-wife, and/or chose her -- the ratio of your 'chosen by' to 'chose' feelings may give you an idea -- but give your ex some credit for having enough intelligence and good taste to have known what she was doing when she proposed or said "yes". And lend some credence to your male friends' view that you are one big heapin' hunk of manhood.
Return later with an explanation (already started) of that last sentence when I'm back in the mood to write more than a quip.
Posts: 8501 | Registered: Jul 2001
| IP: Logged |
posted
Bob, you may be one of the grandest fellas to ever hit this planet. Papa Moose hit it right on the head, those guys want to live vicariously through you... and dangit, they want a spicy vicarious life.
They've got the idea of what they'd want it to be like, or heard from a divorced friend who might have "embellished" their new adventures.
Just roll on with what you want in your life. The vicarious voyeurs will find someone else to live through if you don't live up to their wishes. And heck, if you were living a swinging life, why would it be any of their business?
Just give them a knowing chuckle, say, "Yeah, right" and go on about being Bob. Your happiness is much more important than their imaginations.
Posts: 2848 | Registered: Feb 2003
| IP: Logged |
posted
I escaped most of that crap when I got my divorce, but I got a little bit of it from one person who I think was trying to show me the "up side" of being divorced.
Like you, Bob, I wasn't in any hurry to get into dating. Luckily, I did a move soon after the divorce and went back to school.
As it so happened, I developed a good friendship with a woman in a couple of my classes. We hung out a lot. As we continued hitting it off and hanging out, she finally decided she needed to talk to me. Nervously, she explained she was gay. As she expected, it was no problem with me and we continued to be good buddies.
The only trouble was when I did consider starting to date. People who knew she was gay assumed I was. People (especially women) who did not know, assumed we were intimate and I was being a sleaze if interested in another woman.
Don't know if I'm any good measure of what is healthy or not, but for what it's worth, I dealt with changes in my status in ways similar to yours and sympathize with the reactions you're getting from some of your male friends/associates.
Posts: 4344 | Registered: Mar 2003
| IP: Logged |
Anyway, the thought of me stealing someone else's wife is even more ludicrous than the idea of me dating teenagers. But you've all given me some insights that I was missing. It's not that surprising that we are all insecure some of the time. And it's at least a possibility that any marriage could be "in trouble" enough for the partners to be worried about commitment, if not fidelity.
And shoot, it would be great to be a teenager again if I didn't have to relearn all the hard-won lessons again. Heck, teenage bodies look great next to each other. Not all dumpy and lumpy like middle-aged bodies. Even well-maintained ones.
Oh well, this is getting to be a cliche: "Youth is wasted on the young."
So, I'll just go back to pondering the insights you've shared.
Thanks again!
I have a very hard time wrapping my mind around the thought that someone might be jealous of me or think of me as a "stud" but if you add in other people's insecurities into the mix, and the general awkwardness of dealing with friends who are going through a major negative life change, it does all sort of make sense.
I had no idea women shun the divorcees in their circle. What's that about? Same bunch of insecurity and awkwardness?
Shoot, the time when people need their friends to become closer is when this kind of nasty stuff is happening.
I figured I was "toxic" after my divorce, but now I discover I'm not nearly as toxic as people assume divorced men are.
LOL
I've been through this before, of course, having split from Aura once before. That time I wasn't looking for someone else to bond with, so it really didn't get to me like it does now. I figure this time I'm actually going to marry someone else, eventually, so I don't want to become known as the village Lothario.
quote:The only trouble was when I did consider starting to date. People who knew she was gay assumed I was. People (especially women) who did not know, assumed we were intimate and I was being a sleaze if interested in another woman.
See...this is exactly the kind of thing I'm worried about.
Ugh! I need all the friends I can get, and here I have to worry that making one friend will make it impossible to meet others...
Oh well. Good thing I'm not trying to date just yet.
quote: I had no idea women shun the divorcees in their circle. What's that about? Same bunch of insecurity and awkwardness?
In my experience, it's not an active shunning (well, maybe in a couple cases . . . I think they think it might be contagious ). It's more an I-have-no-idea-what-to-say-so-I'll-smile-and-nod-and-then-go-talk-to-someone-who-DOESN'T-make-me-uncomfortable kind of thing.
It SUCKS. And it's one of many reasons I don't go to many social things anymore.
Posts: 32919 | Registered: Mar 2003
| IP: Logged |
posted
Just another thought that wandered through my mind when someone mentioned fear. It could be not that these men are concerned about you taking their wives, but simply about losing them. They could be looking at themselves and saying, "My wife and I have nothing that Bob and Aura didn't, and they didn't make it. Except maybe Bob was just looking for greener pastures -- keyword being greener. Lemme make sure that was his deal, so I can know there's nothing about my own marriage that should concern me."
Hmmm... doesn't sound as good written as it did in my head. I should have stopped after one post. Oh well....
If that kind of thing is going on in their heads, it must be fairly buried in the subconscious because it does sound silly stated out loud.
Not that it's wrong or not part of a complete explanation.
People had no idea what kind of life Aura and I were leading, or not leading, as the case may be. It was painful, but you don't share that with friends until you know you aren't just going to make things worse by talking about your problems to outsiders. So it is at least possible that someone might think our marriage looked as strong as theirs. But it wasn't. It probably never was, to be truthful, but if it ever was strong, it wasn't for the past 2 years. I think it was fairly obvious, but I suppose someone might've missed the signs and figured we were the ideal couple or something.
Posts: 22497 | Registered: Sep 2000
| IP: Logged |
posted
I suspect if a woman is interested she’ll make a point of finding out if you’re dating any of your female friends. The only reason I can think of for not doing so would be if she absolutely can’t fathom the idea of platonic friendship between men and women. And if that’s the case would you really want to date her?
And besides, I thought Mrs. M and rivka already offered their services as matchmakers extraordinaire. You’ve got nothing to worry about!
Posts: 9866 | Registered: Apr 2002
| IP: Logged |
quote:And besides, I thought Mrs. M and rivka already offered their services as matchmakers extraordinaire. You’ve got nothing to worry about!
Oh yeah!!! I forgot.
<sings>
Matchmaker, Matchmaker, Make me a match! Find me a find, Catch me a catch!
...
I hope you are correct about people asking first rather than just assuming. And you are right that I wouldn't really want to be involved with someone who would just assume about something as important as all that. Afterall, it's the future happiness of at least 2 human beings on the line here.
posted
I'm trying to do 5 things without AIM, mack -- and ignoring the things I really should be doing before kid-fetching commences. Very, very sorry, but can't.
Tonight, as early as I can manage, k?
Posts: 32919 | Registered: Mar 2003
| IP: Logged |
Going around singing show tunes is probably not the greatest way to impress women with your heterosexuality.
(Yeah, I know it's a stereotype, but if straight women believe it, it doesn't really matter does it?)
Posts: 4344 | Registered: Mar 2003
| IP: Logged |
posted
You're a good guy, Bob. Wish there were more men like you out and about. Maybe there are, but I haven't met many of them - could be a Fresno thing.
By the way, the assumption that if a woman is interested, she'll make sure to find out your status re: other relationships is absolutely correct. We have our ways, you know. Posts: 2454 | Registered: Jan 2003
| IP: Logged |
LMA, my heart was crushed once by a girl from Fresno. She still lives there. My hypothesis is that her presence has sucked all the love out of that town and it will go down in history as just a giant black hole of emotion.
My advice to you is to move to Bakersfield.
Rivka, I would never ask you to sell a product you didn't use yourself.
<note to self...ditch the show tunes>
fine! I'll just sing madrigals. Now where'd I leave my green tights?
posted
Bob- Ah man, my husband, Paul, CONSTANTLY does this to our divorced male friends.
quote:Papa Moose is likely right that they don’t know what to say and are taking refuge in (supposed) humor.
Yes- he thinks he's being very funny and supportive when he does this.
A typical night with our divorced male friend, Steve: Paul: "So Steve, How are you?" Steve:"Good! I just started seeing a really nice girl." Paul: "So you're getting lotsa boom-ba-di-boom-boom! What's does she look like?" Steve: (winks at me) "Oh, yeah Paul! I've only known her a week, but I've had her everywhere from the backseat to the kitchen. Lotsa of boom-ba-di-boom-boom! In fact, she barely left me enough energy for our dinner tonight." Paul: (laughs) "Okay, okay. How are sales?" Steve: (to me) "Now that we've gotten THAT out of the way... I really like her. We went out for Italian. She let me get the door."
I don't know. I'm used to this rap and am torn between rolling my eyes in exasperation at Paul and laughing. I usually laugh because I know he doesn't have any mean intent in the tweeking.
Posts: 2425 | Registered: Jan 2002
| IP: Logged |
posted
Well, it's like anything else. We'll laugh and think it's funny when one person says something and then get really insulted if someone else does or says the same thing.
quote: I had no idea women shun the divorcees in their circle
As a divorcee, I don't think my previous friends really were trying to shun me -- it is just that I didn't really "fit in" anywhere anymore.
Before marriage, as a young single, I had tons of friends and we did everything together. Then I got married, and friendships tended to shift toward other married couples with similar interests. Then once you have kids, friendships sometimes shift again to other parents with like-age kids and you spend most of your time focused on the kids' activities.
When I got divorced, most of the other "moms" remained my friends for awhile. But eventually the difference between being a one-parent and the two-parent families became apparent, and we associated less -- mostly because I was just so busy and immersed in fulfilling both parenting role that I didn't have time for friends at all, of any sort.
Single parents sometimes get provoked at their married friends sitting around complaining about how their mates "won't do this or won't do that" -- not even thinking about the fact that the single parent sitting next to them is doing ALL of both roles without complaint. We just think "you whiners -- at least you have a husband who will give you five minutes in the bathtub by yourself."
Having been divorced 12 years now -- I know there are probably whispers about me and "what's wrong with her" as to why I haven't married again. But the truth is I simply have not had the time and energy to put into a relationship like a relationship demands. I have gone on lots of dates, but with no one I can see spending 24/7 with.
And now I'm rambling and forgot the point of my post that I had in mind to begin with. Oh -- but it is true that just as for divorced men -- if a divorced woman goes on a date, others assume she "got laid" in order to "alleviate those long months of lack". :choke,choke:
quote:LMA, my heart was crushed once by a girl from Fresno. She still lives there. My hypothesis is that her presence has sucked all the love out of that town and it will go down in history as just a giant black hole of emotion.
My advice to you is to move to Bakersfield.
Well, I wondered what did that, because goodness knows that something has. Shame on her, for doing that to you and for doing that to Fresno.
I don't know about Bakersfield, though. I usually hear that sucking sound clear until I get to the top of Tejon pass on the way to L.A.
Posts: 2454 | Registered: Jan 2003
| IP: Logged |
posted
Farmgirl, how very true. That's exactly what I think as my married associates whine about what their spouses do or don't do. Sometimes, I even get narly enough to suggest that they might count their blessings.
Bob - as a divorced woman of four years, I have to say that it doesn't get any easier. I know women who think that if they take me out for a drink and introduce me to some guys I'll relax and meet someone nice. (Hello - ever meet the ones that belong to A.A., never mind the ones that SHOULD!) I know guys that think I jsut need to get out there and "play" - really, I "want" to be naughty, don't I?
And then I have one close friend who knows EXACTLY where I've been and we both just shake our heads at the assumptions, prodding, poor taste jokes, idiocy, etc. And I go on about my life in the way that is most healthy, productive and respectful for me, my son and the people around me. Go get 'em, Tiger - they don' know nuthin' Posts: 5609 | Registered: Jan 2003
| IP: Logged |
quote:I don't know about Bakersfield, though. I usually hear that sucking sound clear until I get to the top of Tejon pass on the way to L.A.
Oh God! It's spreading!!!
Shan & Farmgirl both: Thanks! If nothing else, I've come through this thread convinced that I can, for the most part, ignore the comments. Every once in awhile I may issue some clever rejoinder, but basically it matters most what I choose to do and how I choose to do it.
Which, of course, I knew already and I thank you all for the reminder!
I love the people here at Hatrack!
(and I mean that in a purely Platonic way of course!)
Posts: 22497 | Registered: Sep 2000
| IP: Logged |
posted
When one is noticeably pregnant one gets a lot of dumb and overly personal questions. Certain situations unavoidably force people to think of sex, and Americans are supposedly uncomfortable with this.
Well, at least we don't live in a day where you would be kicked out of your job for getting divorced to avoid these kinds of problems. One hopes.
Posts: 11017 | Registered: Apr 2003
| IP: Logged |
posted
My brothers, Southern CA boys to the max, went on a bus trip from Pensylvania to Champaign, IL. When I picked them up and took them back to Chicago, their comment was that the midwest is just one gigantic string of Bakersfields one after the other! Fortunately they liked Chicago.
posted
TNT had on Charmed last night. I admit, its one of my minor vices. I watched it.
In it, the oldest sister is going throug what basically constitutes a pleasant divorce.
She decides to give up on love.
Her sisters decide they know what she needs.
They make her a man. They make her the perfect guilt free boy toy.
I saw that and thought of this thread.
I think the idea is, "Sex solves all problems (for at least the duration of the act.)"
So if Bob is having problems, and Bob's male friends don't know what to say, they think of the one thing that will solve all his problems, for a while anyway.
Actually, the more I think about this, the comments are actually a primordial instinctive responce to show that Bob's friends don't think his loss of a mate was caused by lack of testosterone.
As Og the caveman would have put it.
Bob have mate. Bob mate gone. Og know Bob mate not gone because Bob bad at zug-zug. Me boast of Bob's zug-zug skill after mate gone. Make Bob know Og not question Bob's macho-ness. Do so in way Bob not mistake praise for proposal. Do not want Bob to question Og's macho-ness.
Posts: 11895 | Registered: Apr 2002
| IP: Logged |
Printer-friendly view of this topic
![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
![[Dont Know]](graemlins/dontknow.gif)
![[Mad]](mad.gif)
![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
![[Wink]](wink.gif)
)
![[Razz]](tongue.gif)
![[Frown]](frown.gif)
I'm trying to do 5 things without AIM, mack -- and ignoring the things I really should be doing before kid-fetching commences. Very, very sorry, but can't.![[ROFL]](graemlins/rofl.gif)
![[Eek!]](eek.gif)
![[Smile]](smile.gif)
![[Angst]](graemlins/angst.gif)
