posted
last night. drove to the guys appartment I've been suspecting her of seeing and I saw her through the window stradeling him and being all affectionate and playful and I saw them kiss. It was about 12:30 and he was only wearing boxer shorts. She was fully dressed. That was all I saw but it was enough. She admitted to only kissing him a few times but come on, I'm not a complete idiot. She has spent the night there at least three times and one time I went over there and knocked and she he answered after a few minutes. She was in her PJ's and the top was on inside out and her cigarettes were on his night stand. Hmmm... I believe 2+2=4. DAMN IT!!!!
posted
It sucks, but neither is it surprising. Now that you no longer need to be suspicious of this, can you stop obsessing about this and just cut her out of your life already?
Posts: 37449 | Registered: May 1999
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posted
Beat, Tom's right. You know the truth now and honestly there's nothing you can do to change it. If you keep going to find out what she's doing, well, it can only hurt you and possibly get you into legal trouble (anti-stalking laws, peeping tom, or it escalates into a fight with the guy).
Just cut her loose from your heart and go on about getting YOUR life together. She ain't coming back and why would you want her now? The best revenge is living well, so get on and start living for yourself.
You're a fine fellow and a dirty deed was done to you. But truthfully, there's no way to undo it or make it right again. Just turn around and walk away. Somewhere, in the opposite direction from her, is a much, much better day.
Posts: 2848 | Registered: Feb 2003
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posted
Actually Tom, I've been trying. She refuses to move out and I sure as hell ain't going anywhere. I've been trying to get ahold of my lawyer the last few days to find out what I can do legally to get her out now.
And yes, I am obsessing. but this is the woman whom I love more than words can desribe. This is the woman that despite being a disloyal POS, I miss more each day. This is the woman I share two beautiful children with and had hoped to spend my entire life with. Moving on is a lot easier said than done. At least for me. My feeling die hard.
Posts: 1294 | Registered: Oct 2003
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posted
You could probably kill two birds with one stone by hiring a detective. She's not making any effort to keep the affair a secret, after all, and proof would make it much easier in the divorce proceedings which will inevitably follow.
Posts: 37449 | Registered: May 1999
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posted
I just wanted to appologize for all the whinning I've done over the last few months. (thank you Tom for pointing out just how bad I've been) It's been a very unusual time for me and I've used this forum as a vent for my frustrations perhaps once too often. Sorry if I've annoyed anyone but sometimes just communicating your problems helps and Hatrack has helped. So thanks you as well.
Posts: 1294 | Registered: Oct 2003
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You have not been whining. You are most welcome and of course right to share this with us. Thank you for trusting us with it. Tom's in a grumpy mood about other things, I think. Don't worry about it.
It probably is healthier to start figuring out your next step, but your marriage is dissapearing. It's okay to whine. Heaven knows I do about just about everything that goes badly.
I am sorry. You knew this before, but it's no fun at all to have suspicions confirmed. I'm sorry, beatnix.
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One thing you need to realize is that this woman probably isn't "the woman you love more than words can describe." It's very hard to believe this when the word you used to describe her is POS. If you can use that word, what you are feeling is anger, jealousy, frustration, hatred, or even embarassment. But it is not love.
Think hard about why you think you still love this woman. What is it about her that actually exists that you love. I think you'll find that what you love is the idea you had about her and have come to find out was a wrong idea. She clearly isn't the woman you thought she was, at least not anymore. You can regret the wasted investment of your time and energy with this person. You can mourn the death of whatever real you shared. You can even mourn the disillusionment of finding out she isn't what you thought she was. But to waste something as precious as love for someone for whom that love has no value is a tragedy indeed. But it's one you can end.
Posts: 6394 | Registered: Dec 1999
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And is this the environment you want your children to be in? Dad is heartbroken and Mom goes out everynight to see someone else?
Posts: 2848 | Registered: Feb 2003
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quote:Think hard about why you think you still love this woman.
Well isn't it obvious. I love the lies, hurtful actions and great way she crushes my heart each day.
Seriously, I keep asking myself that question and I have no idea. I think more than anything I am scared out of my mind about being alone. Not to mention what it will do to the kids.
Posts: 1294 | Registered: Oct 2003
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If I were you, the bigest problem is that you are still physically with her. You cannot/will not get away from here presence. How can you get over her when she is always there evoking the same emotional responses from you and re-opening the same wounds. You've gotta get away, man.
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Being alone... would probably be better than being with someone you cannot trust completely... Perhaps it is insolent and impertinent of me to say this, but you deserve better.
Posts: 9942 | Registered: Mar 2003
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As long as the two of you make a commitment to not fight in front of the kids, they'll be fine. Mommy and Daddy living in two different houses isn't that big a deal. Mom and Dad fighting is scary. Just spend as much time with them as you can, beatnix. Remind them that you always love them no matter what.
Unfortunetly, if you behave yourself, this will be far harder on you than on them. But I assume you're willing to make that kind of sacrifice for them. Hang in there. It'll suck for a long time, but I promise, it will get better.
Posts: 2283 | Registered: Dec 2003
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quote:I think more than anything I am scared out of my mind about being alone.
I can totally understand that. Unfortunately, all I can tell you is that you need to be alone for a little while, at least in the romantic relationship sense, to avoid making even deeper mistakes. You should do all you can to ease the loneliness by filling your free time with your kids, first, then family and friends. Don't pine over the woman you lost as she is not the woman you really want, anyway. Certainly don't date until the divorce is final, and I'd probably say wait another 4-6 months after that. If you're craving affection during this time, well, "be your own best friend". When you do start dating, you want it to be with a clear head and with a clear idea of what you want in a date/mate.
I know what loneliness can be. I know what it's like to want someone to be with. I also know what it's like to be with someone who isn't what you thought he was. You have to be careful that you don't let yourself want someone so bad you end up taking anyone.
Posts: 6394 | Registered: Dec 1999
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posted
First of all Beat, you are not alone. We are here.
Secondly, you have not been whining. You have been very brave in opening up to us.
Thirdly, you deserve the love you are giving, but this woman is unable to give it to you right now.
Lonliness and change are the two scariest things we face (death, that's easy compared to those two, if death wasn't the ultimate change). You are brave just thinking about facing them.
Posts: 11895 | Registered: Apr 2002
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posted
Ditto on the detective. You need to write everything down yourself, but having an semi-unbiased detective doing the observation will give you ammo when it comes to the custody battle.
You DON'T want this woman raising your children. Is this the kind of person you really want as a role model for them, regardless of genetic ties?
I've been "my own best friend" for so long that even "myself" is getting boring. Heck, even "myself's" bestfriend, lefty, isn't much fun anymore. Posts: 1294 | Registered: Oct 2003
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posted
Ok, here's a legal question. Can I make her leave? I know a big problem is that she is always there. SO when she leaves and goes out I can't help but get upset. I've asked and asked that she leave but she refuses to go. She keeps sayign taht I can't make her go because it's her house as much as mine. No this is the part i think works in my favor. The house actually belongs to my grandfather and we rent form him. He, obviously, is not real pleased with her and wants nothing to do with giving her any help. I come from a very strong roman catholic Italain family. SO, loyalty and all that is slightly important. SO, anyways we don't have a lease. There is no documentation that gives her, or I for that matter (but I could easily remedy that), the right to be there. SO... with this situation could I force her out?
Posts: 1294 | Registered: Oct 2003
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quote:You DON'T want this woman raising your children.
not to raise issue with this, because i'm not sure if you were referring to the adultery or the poor parenting beatnix has mentioned in the past -- but if you're saying that being adulterous means that a person would not be a good parent, i have to say that both my parents cheated on one another while they were married. so...i pretty much wouldn't have any parents right now, if adulterers were bad parents. Which, they're not...necessarily. They're just bad spouses.
But i agree that based on what beatnix mentioned in the past about his "wife" leaving the kids home alone while she went off (i am remembering this correctly, aren't i?) is just cause to not want to trust her with raising them.
posted
I don't know about the legal aspects, but the old packing the bags and setting them on the doorstep would probably get the point across. If you do that and change the locks given that there is no signed lease she is on, I don't think there would be much she could do.
Dividing up the property will happen with the divorce settlement I think. If she gives you a written list of things she thinks she has paid for, then depending on reasonable or unreasonable, her requests are you could comply.
But I'm not a legal expert either. I'd definitely talk to your lawyer first.
posted
Point taken Leonide. I was saying more due to the bad parenting, and that she is not exhibiting the moral conduct he would like to see in a role model for his children.
But bad spouses can still be good parents, just doesn't appear to be the case here.
posted
AS much as I hate to admit it she is a fairly good mother. My concern wouldn't be with the cheating but with the neglect. And to be completely honest, which I'm trying to do and not let my emotions blind me to what is real, She does deserve to play a very active role in the kids lives. Right now I'm torn between fighting for full custody, which I fear I'll lose (due to the fact that most of this will come down to he said she said), or agreeing to some type of shared custody. I do believe that until she gets her crap together that the kids should stay with me. I don't know this is actually the hardest part of all this.
Posts: 1294 | Registered: Oct 2003
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posted
Talk to a lawyer before doing ANYTHING. If you pack her bags and change the locks, she can gain an advantage in the proceedings. Whether it's fair or not, denying her access to the marital abode will be a mark against you.
Again, talk to a lawyer. It's critical. Take no action until then.
If you arrange for a PI, do so through the lawyer. You want your conduct to be absolutely beyond reproach.
I know this is hard. Unfortunately, nothing that is emotionally satisfying is likely to help you legally.
Well, your Grandfather could force her out. Of course, you may still need to pay attention to Dagonee's last post--if that gives her an advantage in court, it might not be the best idea in the long run. In the short run, though, what's to keep your Grandfather from changing the locks on his own house...?
Oh, and BTW, you might want to edit your last post, legal maneuverings and all...
Posts: 1862 | Registered: Mar 2000
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posted
I agree with Dagonee - talk to a lawyer before doing anything. I dated before my divorce was final, and was told by my lawyer that it was fine; it might be different where you're from. I'm just worried about the fact that you feel the need to follow her. It's time to cut her loose, and hopefully your lawyer will come up with a way to get her out of the house - which means she's more out of your life.
posted
Maybe I'm too trusting of Dagonee's legal background, but I'd go with his advice cause he's in Law School or something.
P.S. Even for the landlord to change the locks as a remedy is highly illegal, if there is any basis for her having an implied lease such as utilities for that address in you all's name.
posted
Ouch, beatnix. (((((beatnix))))) Facing up to a painful truth -- even one you already were fairly sure of -- is always difficult and painful.
And I disagree with KarlEd's second post. I think it is quite possible to still love her, regardless of the reprehensible things she has done (and is doing). You saw enough good in this woman that you married her, and had kids with her. The fact that she has abused your love and trust tarnishes your love for her, but does not erase it.
Only time can do that, in my experience. So, as KarlEd said in his most recent post, make sure you GIVE yourself that time. Trying to be in a new relationship while still reeling from this one is a sure-fire recipe for disaster. Don't do that to yourself -- or your kids.
In general, I'm very much in favor of shared custody to as great a degree as practical. Kids really need to have a relationship with both parents -- or at least an opportunity for one.
I agree with Dagonee. Talk to a lawyer as soon as possible. If money is an issue, there are sliding-scale and/or free resources in most areas. I only know about CA, but someone else here may know more about what's available in Ohio.
I'm newly registered here so no one knows me, but I've been reading and lurking for a while. Just wanted to say I'm unfortunately going through the same thing-- my husband is cheating on me. Our marriage is pretty much over, he's taking a week with no contact with the other woman and a vow of silence about the relationship from me, but our chances of staying together are slim. And yes, I still love him, and I still wish things could be better or that this all never happened. But I'm beginning to accept that in many ways, he's been gone a long time-- we'll just be making it official.
Anyway, I know what you are feeling and it just plain sucks. Good luck to you!
posted
Let me piss a lot of people off. Am I completely stupid for forgiving her and still wanting to make things work? I mean it hurts like hell, I do want to move on if I have to, and I'll never really forgive her, But I'm quick to forget and move on. I try not to live in the past and I know that if she tried I'd still give her a chance. Not that this is going to happen. I don't think she is cappable of working on our marraige I just wanted to know how stupid I am for feeling this way. I mean, becaus I piss myself off by feeling like this. My brain tells me I just need to give up but my heart, or what ever stupid part of me overrides my mind, isn't ready to. Crap.
Posts: 1294 | Registered: Oct 2003
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posted
No - you are not stupid, and it is not unreasonable to want to forgive someone you love and continue to make a life with her. If it's at all possible you should do it.
The hard part is determining if she's interested in making it work. From our limited view of the situation, it sounds like she's not.
If she shows commitment to making this work, then you should try it. This requires a concrete definition of what that commitment means. My recollection is you tried counseling once. I believe some counselors will also help in the process of making the final decision. Basically, they help each person clearly articulate what it is they want. If that's to end it, the process can help make it much clearer. If that's to try to make it work, they can help come up with a concrete plan both spouses can agree with.
posted
Beatnix, I feel the same way about my husnband, I'm ready and willing to work on our marraige if he is ready and willing. I don't think there is anything wrong or weird with wanting to make things work with the person you love and pledged your life and love to. Marriage is supposed to be about working out your problems and helping each other, not bailing out! I guess what I'm saying is you are feeling the way you are supposed to feel. It's the way I feel, too, so it can't be totally abnormal, right?
posted
I've actually mentioned to her about going back to couselor. Even if only to have him involved in helping end things in a peaceful manner. Think I'll try to bring that up again when I go home for lunch this afternoon.
Posts: 1294 | Registered: Oct 2003
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posted
Beatnix, I think we always want to forgive the ones we love. I know that lots of couples have gotten past an affair. However, as Dagonee said, your wife must want to work it out too. It wouldn't hurt anything to have an honest conversation with her and tell her what you want.
posted
I was reading a blurb in the paper yesterda about a process that is called Colaborative Divorce. I don't know if they have it in Ohio, but basically it is an arbitration process between a lawyer a social worker and a couple of other experts to figure out what is best for the kids and do it without the muckraking through the courts. They emphasise communication through the whole thing, and say that about 10% of the marriages actually are restored somewhere in the communication process.
This might be something to look into. If she agreed it would open the channels of communication in a more non-confrontational way, but with a deadline of "this is serious" over the top. It is supposed to be cheaper on average than a regular divorce and shorter as well. (I think the numbers they gave was $9K vs $16K and 6 months as opposed to 9-12 months of arbitration.
quote:Let me piss a lot of people off. Am I completely stupid for forgiving her and still wanting to make things work? I mean it hurts like hell, I do want to move on if I have to, and I'll never really forgive her, But I'm quick to forget and move on. I try not to live in the past and I know that if she tried I'd still give her a chance. Not that this is going to happen. I don't think she is cappable of working on our marraige I just wanted to know how stupid I am for feeling this way. I mean, becaus I piss myself off by feeling like this. My brain tells me I just need to give up but my heart, or what ever stupid part of me overrides my mind, isn't ready to. Crap.
Nope. Not stupid. completely normal. I've been through the whole deal too. In my case I filed for divorce about 2 weeks ago. That doesn't mean that I don't love her and wouldn't drop the diivorce in a heartbet if I thought there was a chance of us working it out. But she's made it perfectly clear that she has no desire to do so. And so, I had to decide that love isn't enough. Marriage takes 2 to make, but only 1 to break. She broke, and I couldn't rebuild for 2, though I tried for quite a while.
Now it's time to focus on me instead. I'm a lot stronger than I was when this all started, and I have a way to go yet. It is and will be the same for you. It doesn't make it any easier, I know. Nor will it. Not now, not later. But I hope you can take some comfort in knowing that you are not alone and that it will get better.
Posts: 1323 | Registered: Aug 2001
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quote: And so, I had to decide that love isn't enough. Marriage takes 2 to make, but only 1 to break. She broke, and I couldn't rebuild for 2, though I tried for quite a while.
Amen, brother.
beatnix, I think your feelings are completely normal -- even rational. If there IS a chance of putting your marriage back together, I would applaud your doing so. I agree with the advice to go to a counselor if she is willing; and the route AJ recommended otherwise.
Posts: 32919 | Registered: Mar 2003
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posted
It's about 1:30 am here and I can't sleep. Need to vent so please bear with me.
Tonight my wife came home and finally came clean. She's been seeing this guy since easter. They have been sleeping together for two months (never once using any protection) and she's in love with him. They had been talking about leaving together to go to Indiana, where he is being promoted to, and taking my children with them. He has been to my house numerous time and they have been intimate here. She has spent a weekend away with him, and two of her friends, who I thought I had good relationships with, knew about all this. She's has come clean because he has decided to go back to his fiancee. She is a complete wreck, crying and feeling like a fool for falling for his whole "I really love you and aren't just taking advantage of a vonerable woman" line. On top of all this she is suicidal. Talking about how everyone will be better off without her. While I take a little, and I mean very little, pleasure (however shallow) in the justice of his leaving her I am horribly worried about her. As angry as I am at her and hurt I can't imagine what I would begin to do if she really did take her own life. I worry most for my kids but i couldn't in good conciense stand by and not try to help her.
Awww... crap! I'm a freaking wreck, this is more than any person should have to deal with in one day. Anyways, thanks. Vent over.
Posts: 1294 | Registered: Oct 2003
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posted
I can't imagine much worse than what you're going through Beatnix. I admire that you're not letting anger be the only side to your feelings here. You'll find your right way through this path, but for now you have my meagre admiration and support.
Posts: 2245 | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
I don't know if this sucks more or less than before, man.
So far I think you've handled this really well and I'm amazed that you've been able to keep yourself together. I'm not sure that the worst is over but I suspect that you have the stength to get through whatever happens.
I'm in no position to give advice, I'm out of my depth, but I'll do you the only meaningful favour that I can: I'll bump this thread so that people qualified to give advice can do so.
Posts: 10886 | Registered: Feb 2000
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Without knowing anything about your relationship before this all started, and without casting judgemental aspersions on your wife and her actions, I can say that she's obviously going through an extremely self-indulgent time period in her life which has not ended by being dumped.
Being suicidal, talking about how everyone would be better off without her - this is more emotional self-indulgence, and it helps blow everything so vastly out of proportion that she doesn't have to deal with her true sins at this time. Sure, you can be worried about her, etc... But if this was my mate, and I had any desire to repair the very extensive damage done so far, I would first address the fact that they needed to get the hell over themselves. Don't let her be a martyr.
After all, it was your heart that she tried to kill.
Posts: 7600 | Registered: Jan 2001
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posted
I don't know what to say to you that doesn't sound angry and vehement towards her for putting you through this... But she needs to get herself together though... But take care of yourself as well.... And be careful.. Posts: 9942 | Registered: Mar 2003
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posted
Oh, well I think I am over the whole "let's work things out stage" The whole doing him in my own house thing has pretty much sealed the deal for me. I actually saw my lawyer today about getting the paper work going to end it all. She then came home and dropped this bomb. I had been pretty sure of it all but it's much worse actually knowing. and don't get me wrong. I don't have that much sympathy. Although I believe I've been pretty understanding, even holding her as she cried about his sorry a$$, I still have been equally harsh in my opinions of her and letting her know those opinions. I haven't screamed and yelled but some of the things I have said have spoken volumes.
Posts: 1294 | Registered: Oct 2003
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Wow. Seriously, wow! I've gotten much better at dealing with my ex, and almost never yell at him anymore -- but that took at least six months to a year after I got past the always-angry-at-him stage. And he never pulled much of the crap your soon-to-be-ex has!
I really respect your self-control, and inner strength.
Posts: 32919 | Registered: Mar 2003
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