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» Hatrack River Forum » Active Forums » Books, Films, Food and Culture » Gotta watch those pesky bills, Senators

   
Author Topic: Gotta watch those pesky bills, Senators
Chris Bridges
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Frist: Tax-returns measure indefensible

Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist said Sunday that "accountability will be carried out" against whoever slipped a provision into an omnibus spending bill that would have allowed two committee chairmen to view the tax returns of any American.

"I have no earthly idea how it got in there," Frist said on CBS's "Face The Nation." "Nobody is going to defend this."

The language was caught and removed in the Senate on Saturday, but the House will have to approve the fix before the spending bill can be sent to the White House for President Bush's signature.

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Scott R
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I am finding that I dislike the Republican Party more and more everyday.

This combined with their attempts to keep Bill Frist from having to step down as Senate Majority leader should he be indicted-- well, my status as Independent is firmly entrenched now.

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Hobbes
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I think it's kind of a sign when so much crap gets attached to a bill in committe that it wasn't even noticed that some stupid thing like this got slipped in too.

Hobbes [Smile]

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Peter
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So so everybody knows, stuff like this happens all the time. It is not at all unusual for someone to slip something into the bill. What is unusual is that this was caught. Many time when the democrats had the majority in the senate, stuff like this got through.

[ November 22, 2004, 09:42 AM: Message edited by: Peter ]

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Dagonee
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In the interest of not slandering people, It's Tom DeLay in the House that might benefit from the recent rule change.

Dagonee

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Morbo
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Scott, I think you are thinking about House Maj. Leader Tom Delay, one of the hackiest of political hacks ever to slither into DC. He's in danger of being indicted for a Texas state felony in an election/PAC/money laundering scandal involing TRMPAC, a pac he set up and the RNC. 3 of his aides have already been indicted.

Peter, many times when the Repubs have been in charge plenty of fishy stuff has gotten through. Neither side has a monopoly of virtue on this issue, they have both done it often.

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Scott R
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Oops-- sorry, Repubs.

[Frown]

But, honestly, how can you tell the difference? Republicans all look the same to me. . .

[ November 22, 2004, 10:07 AM: Message edited by: Scott R ]

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newfoundlogic
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I don't think DeLay should be removed automatically if he is indicted. If he's convicted on the other hand...
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ludosti
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I honestly wish that all bills could only be about 1 thing (no pesky ride-alongs) and that they were limited (pagewise) so Senators/Representatives could be required to actually read them before voting on them. It would create a huge backlog in Congress, I'm sure....but I hate that all these huge multiple issue bills get shoved through all the time.
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sndrake
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quote:
I don't think DeLay should be removed automatically if he is indicted.
Hey, I don't either. It's much more fun to have him remain as leader if indicted. Think of it - every single story involving him as house leader will have descriptions such as:

"the recently-indicted Speaker"
"DeLay, who has been charged with..."

etc. etc. etc. - you get the idea. Every news story touching on DeLay will also mention he's charged with a crime - IF that's what happens (big IF).

EDIT to add: That means that Republicans will be faced with basically two choices: Deal with the fact that every piece of coverage of DeLay in his role also acts as a reminder that he's under indictment; OR have him play a quieter role, giving spokesperson role over to other Republicans, which kind of negates DeLay's usefulness.

That's the trouble with having power. You get what you wish for and then sometimes you have to live with it. [Wink]

[ November 22, 2004, 01:28 PM: Message edited by: sndrake ]

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Kayla
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nfl, it wouldn't be a problem if the Republicans hadn't made such a stink about it when they passed it to begin with. They were the ones who said that they would hold themselves to a higher standard than the Democrats (I believe they were speaking of Dan Rostenkowski, who at the time, was the chair of means and ways.) It sucks when smack talk comes back to bite you on the ass.
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newfoundlogic
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Indiction does not equal conviction, though. Sharon was indicted in Israel for corruption. The charges have since been dropped. Kobe Bryant was indicted for sexual assualt, those charges were dropped. If DeLay was convicted than he obviously should be removed from office. Whatever happened to innocent until proven guilty by a court of law?
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sndrake
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Well, there's at least one news story out that says DeLay won't be indicted, which, by my interpretation, makes the frantic changing of the rules even more foolish-looking. No faith in the grand jury OR DeLay. [Wink]

Nice column by Chicago columnist Clarence Page on this, published in the Houston Chronicle:

House leadership makes old Chicago pols look good

quote:
House leadership makes old Chicago pols look good
By CLARENCE PAGE
Copyright 2004 Houston Chronicle News Services

Could this be the beginning of the end for "The Hammer"? House Republicans have rewritten their ethics rules so Majority Leader Tom DeLay won't have to resign if he is indicted.

This big favor to the ethically challenged Sugar Land Republican gives new meaning to Mark Twain's description of Congress as the "distinctly native American criminal class." Somehow I don't think this is what most of the Republican voters had in mind who told exit pollsters on Election Day that "moral values" was their most important issue.

Republicans passed their indictment rule back in 1993, modeling it after a similar Democratic caucus rule, in a feeble attempt to embarrass powerful Democrats like then-Ways and Means Chairman Dan Rostenkowski of Illinois. He eventually was convicted of mail fraud.

Like many others in Chicago at the time, I remember his case well. After handily winning the Democratic re-nomination, which usually is tantamount to election in Chicago, Rosty's indictment came down and voters booted him out of office.

In fact, the voters, in other words, preferred a guy hardly anyone knew, Michael Patrick Flanagan, 32, a Republican attorney who said he decided to run while throwing darts with some buddies in a North Side pub. He lasted one term in office.

I point all of this out because, for all of the cheap shots Chicago voters have taken for their high tolerance for corruption, I'm happy to report that they appear to have higher standards than House Republicans.

Yet, it is significant to note that one of those who pushed the indictment rule was, yes, that alleged paragon of virtue Tom DeLay, who has been cited by the House Ethics Committee for three violations this year and for another in 1999.

and...

quote:
Besides, one wonders, what's happened to law-and-order House conservatives, now that one of their own is getting the big prosecutorial probe? I point all of this out not to say DeLay is guilty. Everyone is innocent, as I once heard a Chicago politician say, until all of their appeals are exhausted. But I do find it amusing and informative that Republicans are so much more respectful of DeLay's right to be presumed innocent than they have been of Democrats in similar circumstances.

In fact, one hears echos in DeLay's defenders of Bill Clinton's defenders against Kenneth Starr's Whitewater/Monicagate investigations. I don't recall much innocent-until-proved guilty compassion coming from the Republican House impeachment managers back then. But, that was then. As Tom Wolfe once observed, if a conservative is a liberal who's been mugged, a liberal is just a conservative who's been arrested.

Chicago has some great columnists. One of my favorites, John Kass, also wrote a column on DeLay. He compared him with Clinton, and made it clear he doesn't care for either man very much. Kass has political views that are more conservative than mine, but he tends to treat dishonesty and corruption with the same amount of vigor, regardless of the political ideology of the public figure in question. It's one of the reasons I look forward to Kass's columns. [Smile]
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Kayla
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nfl, personally, I have no opinion about it one way or another. (Actually, I have two very strong opinions, but they are in complete opposition to each other, so at this point and time, I'm torn either way.)

That said, the Republicans are the ones who passed it. They are the ones who said they were better than the Democrats. And the first time there is a hint that someone might be indicted, they change the rule again. It's pretty pathetic, if you ask me. It's kind of like being an abstinence cheerleader and showing up pregnant singing a different tune.

I don't care what they do. It' just makes them look as sleazy as the Democrats did when they were in the same mess.

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Morbo
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"Everyone is innocent, as I once heard a Chicago politician say, until all of their appeals are exhausted. " [ROFL]

Steve, you're right: it will be much funnier to see Delay try to be a leader if he gets indicted.

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