quote: 'Sit your asses down!' With those four words, comedian Chris Rock brought a new tone to the Oscars that network executives and sponsors of the Academy Awards hope will lure back a bigger, younger TV audience to Hollywood's biggest night. In this photo, Rock performs during the 77th annual Academy Awards in Hollywood
I knew a great many people in high school who liked to listen to heavy metal music, punk, or whatever it’s called. “I like the message” they’d say. They’d wax rhetoric about the evils of corporate America and “the system”; communism was the economic theory of choice and any authority over them was clearly evil.
They’d say this while listening to their 15.99 CDs produced by the RIAA, in clothes that were specially designed to look rebellious by a large corporation that specialized in selling to dis-engendered teens, or clothes that they had bought from the Gap and then torn holes in, to show they weren’t part of the cultural norm. I keep picturing these perceived corporate villains they were describing sitting in their offices planning out their newest counter-culture advertisement that would sell these kids exactly the rebellion they were looking for. Mass-produced unconformity! Rebel against the corporate machine, buy at Hot Topic! Recording labels predicting the exact cash value that signing a “musician” who bit the head off of a live bird would bring, counter-culture brings profit!
To be honest, nothing makes me more wary of a truly dominate corporate America, than it’s pedestrian detractors. Not what they’re saying, but what they’re doing! We’re selling anti-sales, turning a profit on hating making a profit, and systemizing the money-making potential of anti-system ideas. Wow, chalk one up for corporate America!
quote: network executives and sponsors of the Academy Awards hope will lure back a bigger, younger TV audience
Ha! The people with whom I watched the Oscars, an audience between 18-23 years old, perhaps the target of the changes was not amused at all.
No one liked the changes and we all agreed that the shunting of the behind-the-scenes awards was both rude and unecessary.
Posts: 8473 | Registered: Apr 2003
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Well, yes, that's always annoyed me. That, and people getting into things I've been into all my life for about two seconds because it's "popular" and then proceeding to lecture me on it, but not taking my suggestions about what they might enjoy because, even though I know more about it than they do, I'm not "cool". Posts: 21182 | Registered: Sep 2004
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posted
I've had similar thoughts listening to a bunch of Goths, all dressed in black with similar makeup, complaining about the "conformists."
Posts: 26071 | Registered: Oct 2003
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What gets me is the mass-marketed "Anarchy Now" symbols. Way to display your contempt for the market, little anarchists.
Posts: 2849 | Registered: Feb 2002
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I just laugh and shake my head at things like that. Honestly, I can't see getting worked up about it. If fools want to think they're railing against some faceless, evil authority, let 'em. They'll either grow up, or they won't amount to anything. Either way, not my problem.
There are more important things to worry about.
Posts: 1357 | Registered: Mar 2002
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People sometimes tell me I do not dress with flair or my own style. I tend to wear plain clothes, this is true.
But what every person who dresses to express themselves and looks down upon everyone else who does not neglects to mention is that I am clearly an individual simply from the fact that I do not dress to express. I wear what I feel comfortable or good in wearing. I express myself through my actions and my other choices.
I do own a few pieces of clothing that I feel do express who I am (my bright red jacket with black toggles!) but I do not rely on that one jacket to tell the world who Teshi is.
Posts: 8473 | Registered: Apr 2003
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quote:That was all made worthwhile by a single episode of South Park.
"Dude! You can't be a nonconformist if you don't drink coffee!"
I loved that eopisode. I also liked the return of the Goths in the "You got served" episode:
Tall Goth Kid: I'm such a non-comformist that I'm not conforming with you guys. *to Stan* I'm in. Stan: Great! *they leave* Goth girl: Whoa..looks like we just got put in our place. Bang flipping goth: Yea we just got goth served.
posted
All of which simply illustrates that we really are sheep. We like being one of a crowd. Some of us prefer to be the bellwether, but it doesn't mean we're not still sheep.
Posts: 5948 | Registered: Jun 2001
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Goth served I should watch that episode. I think I will. I don't want to be a sheep. I'd rather be a wolf, or at least were victorian men's suits and carry a pocket watch because nobody does that.
Posts: 9942 | Registered: Mar 2003
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The T-shirt that I see on everyone and most amuses me is the, "You laugh at me because I'm different, I laugh at you because you're all the same." I would see at least 2 kids a day wearing that T-shirt, most of the "conforming kids" worked hard to make sure they didn't have on the same clothes as their friends.
Posts: 4655 | Registered: Jan 2002
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What's happening in this thread is exactly the same thing that all of you are making fun of, because all of you are making fun of it. So there! Posts: 10886 | Registered: Feb 2000
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It seems to me that some people see the swearing in public thing as though the 1st amendment was a *Requirement* rather than a freedom.
Like in order to be a *True American*(tm) you have to push the envelope. I think the founding fathers expected us to be civil, out of basic propriety.
Posts: 3735 | Registered: Mar 2002
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Snow flakes are actually homogenius materials: they solid water usually. Just a piece of frozen H2O and they are all exactly alike All water Posts: 3295 | Registered: Jun 2004
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quote:It seems to me that some people see the swearing in public thing as though the 1st amendment was a *Requirement* rather than a freedom.
Like in order to be a *True American*(tm) you have to push the envelope. I think the founding fathers expected us to be civil, out of basic propriety.
I think its more that, swear words are just that, words. And if you use them a whole bunch, they lose their punch. If we use them a ton they will cease to be swear words and then, they won't be offensive, no one will care.
Even if that isn't most swearing people's intention, its a nice side effect of the trend and I like it, so I'm not complaining. There was a time when you'd get in big trouble for swearing in school or in the class room, now, in my school at least, you hear it all the time. No one cares.
Edit:
Good heavens, look at the google ads for this page! Hot Topic and Gothic Dating...
I thought today that I might try to go an entire day without saying anything but f***. Then I thought that might get old fast, so perhaps fifteen minutes of conversation with some friends would suffice for amusement purposes. I'm saving it for a good night at the pub or cottage as an experiment in the range of inflections I'm capable of. Posts: 10886 | Registered: Feb 2000
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quote: I think its more that, swear words are just that, words. And if you use them a whole bunch, they lose their punch. If we use them a ton they will cease to be swear words and then, they won't be offensive, no one will care.
Except that you just escalate the descriptiveness, to create an increasingly distinct picture in someone's mind. Just consider that at one time, calling someone an "ass" merely meant that they were as dumb as a donkey, escalated to as dumb as a donkey's rear end, and then the word came to mean any rear end, which still wasn't good enough...
Plus, words do offend, and you can't assume that just because a word has lost it's offensiveness to you, that it isn't offensive to someone else. It's still rude, and you've increased the magnitude of the rudeness.
Then there's the other side, which is that when words fail to shock, letting loose with a good swear word just doesn't satisfy. When nobody cares what words you use, will people resort to violence because words just don't do the job anymore?
Posts: 3735 | Registered: Mar 2002
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quote:Snow flakes are actually homogenius materials: they solid water usually. Just a piece of frozen H2O and they are all exactly alike
Wrong!! Snowflakes, virtually always nucleate on an aerosol particle and are therefore never pure homogenius H2O.
Posts: 12591 | Registered: Jan 2000
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Seriously, people have been admonishing other people to "keep it real" by, well, not particularly keeping it real since the dawn of time, or at least since they started putting brand names on tabs of LSD.
Posts: 37449 | Registered: May 1999
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I was making a movie for class in which I taped people talking about a topic of their choice. One of the guys I taped said something like, "A lot of people just like to be weird for the sake of being weird. And they can dress all in black and pretend their family doesn't hug them..."
I thought that was pretty accurate for a lot of the art majors at this school. They all like to make edgy, controversial art with deep symbolism that no one understands except the person who made it. They like to play the tortured artist and be cynical about everything. They think it's good art only if it says something about the tragedy of human nature or makes fun of society. It seems like such an act to me. I don't think there is anything wrong with expressing happiness in art. It makes me sort of an oddball in the art department.
Posts: 486 | Registered: Feb 2005
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I like happiness in art. No, let me take that back. I love happiness in art. I love multi-colored tree trunks with leaves to match. I love large flowers. I love tranquil scenes. I love art that brings me peace, love, joy, and happiness.
quote: So you're a nonconformist among nonconformists then?
Something like that. Of course, not all the art majors are tortured artists, namely the graphic design majors, but I only had one class with them. If I was a music or education major, I'd probably fit right in. They seem like really happy people.
Posts: 486 | Registered: Feb 2005
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One of the old guys that runs my church calls it the uniform of nonconformity. Heh heh. Good one, boss.
Posts: 2010 | Registered: Apr 2003
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quid, that's why I like Jackson Pollock's work so much. The one original I've seen was pure joy in paint. Posts: 5948 | Registered: Jun 2001
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quote: why did non-conformist come to be so synonymous with "unhappy"?
Because you're more likely to be happy if you're content with the status quo of the majority; it makes for an easier life. A non-conformist, by definition, is not content in that way. Posts: 37449 | Registered: May 1999
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quote: "I never watched the Oscars. Come on, it's a fashion show," Rock recently declared.
"What straight black man sits there and watches the Oscars? Show me one!"
Rock added: "Awards for art are f---ing idiotic."
XXXXX DRUDGE REPORT XXXXX SUN FEB 13, 2005 21:06:25 ET XXXXX
HOST CHRIS ROCK SHOCK: ONLY GAYS WATCH OSCARS
ACADEMY MEMBERS ALARMED OVER CHOICE OF COMIC
**Exclusive**
Veteran members of the Academy of Motion Picture Arts and Sciences have grown concerned over the choice of Chris Rock as host of this month's awards show, the DRUDGE REPORT has learned.
Concern deepened after Rock claimed only gays watch the Oscars!
"I never watched the Oscars. Come on, it's a fashion show," Rock recently declared.
"What straight black man sits there and watches the Oscars? Show me one!"
Rock added: "Awards for art are f---ing idiotic."
MORE
Academy members have privately called for Chris Rock to be removed as host, sources claim, fearing Rock may "tarnish" the reputation of the Academy.
"Simply put, this is a disgrace," one veteran Hollywood mogul, who asked not to be identified, said from Los Angeles.
"This guy is out there saying 'awards for art are f---ing idiotic' and he is hosting the show produced by the Academy of Motion Picture Arts and Sciences? I guess the joke is on us!"
One nominated actress questions whether producer Gil Cates was even aware that Rock has "never watched the Oscars."
Other unpublicized comments made by Rock threaten to throw the scheduled Feb. 27 broadcast into complete chaos.
During a recent hate-filled rant, Rock imitated a White House press briefing:
"Mr. President, what about gay marriage? 'F**k them faggots,'" Rock said of Bush.
What will Rock be wearing to the show?
"Nothing against people who aren't straight, but what straight guy that you know cares? Who gives a f---?" Rock explained.
Developing...
----------------------------------------------------------- Filed By Matt Drudge
Posts: 1221 | Registered: Aug 2001
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Drudge has a long-standing fued with Chris Rock. Rock's statements were originally said in Entertainment Weekly, and they were horrified by how he was characterized by Matt Drudge. The academy didn't even blink. Drudge is not a good source for this.
From Entertainment Weekly, an article by the original interviewer:
quote:As the person who did the infamous interview with Chris Rock that sparked the Drudge Report-fueled controversy over whether he should be hosting the Oscars, I'd like to share a little secret.
There is no controversy. Let me explain.
When I went to the Drudge Report website Sunday night (Feb. 13), I saw it was topped by the screaming headline, ''HOST CHRIS ROCK SHOCK: ONLY GAYS WATCH OSCARS,'' splashed in the blocky font Matt Drudge usually reserves for a lurid Michael Jackson revelation or political takedown. I instantly recognized this as my article as filtered through severe reading-comprehension issues. The upcoming Oscar host had joked to me that no straight black men watch the Academy Awards. Now Drudge was paraphrasing it as exposé, making it sound like Rock was impugning the sexuality of all male movie lovers. It was like translating Henny Youngman's ''Take my wife, please'' into ''YOUNGMAN: WIVES ARE MADE FOR SWAPPING.''
In Drudge's posting, he excerpted some of Rock's dismissive jokes about the Oscars — that he had never watched them except when black actors were nominated, and that awards for art were ''f---ing idiotic'' — and then sprung his ''exclusive'': that because of these comments, unnamed Academy members were demanding that he be replaced as host. My instinct was to dismiss the article. Of course some would grumble at Rock's disrespectful comments. Many in Hollywood consider the Oscars just shy of Communion as a holy event, and some stars don't like the idea of their night being mocked. (Remember the way Russell Crowe just glowered at host Steve Martin's barbs in 2001?) It wouldn't be hard for Drudge to uncover a couple of cranks eager to vent. Heck, at the Old Actors Home you probably can't throw a bust of Myrna Loy without hitting an Academy member who prays every night for the ghost of Bob Hope to show these insolent upstarts how comedy is done. But the Academy picked Rock for a reason: In light of the award-show ratings slides of recent years, he'll attract younger viewers who think the Oscars is something their parents watch when they want to see Billy Crystal think of a clever rhyme for ''Thalberg.''
It only took a simple Web search to remind me that there's an interesting antagonistic history between Drudge and Rock. In March 2003, around the beginning of the Iraq War, Drudge posted an unsourced scoop that DreamWorks had asked Rock to refrain from making anti-Bush jokes while promoting his new movie, Head of State. Rock released the statement, ''I never met Matt Drudge, but if I see Matt Drudge, I'm going to take my red-blooded American foot and put it up his un-American a-- for trying to disrupt the opening of my movie.''
But this history didn't seem to occur to the rest of the media. Such was the pickup of this article (the Associated Press, CNN, E!, yes, even EW.com, to name but a few) that Gil Cates, the Oscar ceremony's producer, released a statement denying that he'd heard any complaints from Academy members, and averring that Rock's comments were ''clearly jokes,'' and he still wanted Rock for the reason he first approached the comic: his daring sense of humor. As for the insinuated accusations of homophobia, GLAAD — the Gay and Lesbian Alliance Against Defamation — said his remarks were clearly barbs toward the Oscars, not gays. So it seemed that no one was offended but Drudge.
It also bears noting that this wasn't the first time Drudge proved unable (or unwilling) to grasp Rock's humor. On Jan. 28, a wire story reported an Oscar press conference in which Cates was asked how he chose Rock to be host. After Cates began saying that Billy Crystal was on Broadway and Steve Martin was doing a movie, Rock interrupted, adding, ''Ellen DeGeneres has crabs. Jay Leno's got a gig. They got to the R's. Burt Reynolds said no.'' How did Drudge link to this story? With the ludicrous headline, ''OSCAR HOST CHRIS ROCK: 'Ellen DeGeneres has crabs'...'' Was this interpretation oblivious, humorless, or simply malicious?
When Drudge sensed that his ''exclusive'' based on my quotes was catching on, he pushed it further, heading to Hannity and Colmes on Feb. 14 to keep it alive. But his approach was more activist: He now warned against Rock as a horrible, ''lewd'' spokesman for Hollywood to the rest of the globe watching the awards. He cited routines from Rock's 2004 Emmy-nominated HBO special, Never Scared, pulled wildly out of context. In a bit about the freedoms in America, Rock says ''it's beautiful abortion is legal,'' which Drudge twisted to ''abortion, it's beautiful.'' Then Drudge disparagingly cited Rock's reference to ''weird white guys getting overly patriotic with their [f---ing] flag hats on,'' and snorted that Rock must find the flag waving on Fox News ''weird'' too. Rock's routine is actually about how patriotism after Sept. 11 slowly devolved from a pure, refreshing love of country into ''hatriotism,'' where some people used jingoism as a pretext to say they hated all foreigners. Which is not a far leap from wrapping yourself in the flag to silence a comedian you don't agree with.
Drudge went on to worry that Rock might drop ''f-words'' and ''spew hatred'' on the Oscars. But Rock is a pro. He never swore when he hosted the MTV Video Music Awards, and he's very savvy about TV's limits. He's a comedian, not a Tourette's patient. And who would Drudge find acceptable? ''They could have gone to Regis [to host],'' he told Hannity. Would Phyllis Diller be an acceptable backup?
Four days later, I'm still seeing this same story with Cates' same denials popping up in national and local papers. I feel partly responsible for this outcry, in that some of the offending comments came from my interview. But that's not what frustrates me. What frustrates me is that Drudge, with the overeager and unthinking cooperation of some of my peers in the media, has so widely perpetuated what is an absolute non-story. Because now Rock might watch what he says next time he's in an interview, and when an insightful, outspoken comic starts watching his words, welcome to the world of hatriotism.
quote:why did non-conformist come to be so synonymous with "unhappy"?
I think it's because to a lot of people, "non-conformist" carries a positivist attitude - that is, it's not just not caring about what the mainstream does, but it involves making choices with the intent of being different from the mainstream.
I think a lot of people are aconformists - they do things because they want to, and whether or not it's done by the mainstream is either not important or not considered.
Both can be out of step with the mainstream, but the former are controlled by the mainstream in a way the latter aren't.
posted
Let's just be careful not to jump on the anti-non-conformist bandwagon because it's fashionable.
Posts: 5600 | Registered: Jul 2001
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"Wow! Those goth kids sure are weird, huh Beaver?"
This thread is pathetic. All kids need to conform in some way to something. Calling them "stupid" for it wont change the fact that some kids find some kind of meaning in hating everything. They'll grow out of it.
That, or they'll turn in to me. Muhaha!
Posts: 4753 | Registered: May 2002
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quote:All kids need to conform in some way to something.
But do we need to sell them and tell them what to conform to? I think that's what this thread is really about.
Posts: 21182 | Registered: Sep 2004
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